Too. Much. Free. Time. :eek:
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Too. Much. Free. Time. :eek:
Absolutelly awsome! :D (despite the shonky editing :D)
The Ent-D can so go toe to toe with a SW Star Destroyer. Size is not everything.
And the Future Ent-D I bet you can go toe to toe with the Death Star!
Well it all depends on who's side you take.. Starwars or Startrek. The Starwars technical manuals tell us that their ships do 8000 bajilion times the damage of Startrek ships, but the films themselves show a different story. I recall one particularly damning piece of evidence where Han Solo says "they are at maximum range now" and it wasn't more than a few hundred meters... Trek ships could sit at 40,000 kilomiters, at medium range, and pummel them :D To be honest both genres rarelly specify how much power, exactly, their ships and technology have, so it all comes down to who wants to prove theirs is better :D
I actually found it refreshing that they stayed pretty neutral in that piece :D
Here's why Trek wins:
Faster than light sensors, faster than light weapons, faster than light drive:
I can tell where you are shooting and move, but you can't dodge my fire = I win.
Gimme a shuttle and a (insert weapon*) and I'll beat anything offered in any setting that does not have any of those 3. :)
* Weapon of choice: In TNG, the photorp was the FTL weapon while phasers were STL, in TOS it often appeared to be the other way around. So call it a hand phaser or a microtorpedo launcher depending on which era you are in. ;)
*someone misses the point* :D
There are serious technological tricks that trek has over other genres, such as transporters, but there are a number of points you are missing... 1) we have no real idea how the weapons and shield strengths compare. A 'Turbolaser' is fairly obviously not an actual 'laser', so we can't know what it's capable of, or for that matter if the Federation can beam through Wars shields, they can't beam through anybody elses in Trek ! :D
Of course if we're playing battle of the daddy pants, I'd just fire a trilithium torpedo at the local star, and warp away.. a planet is one thing, a solar system is another! :D
**GEEK ALERT**
Well, they did manage to beam through their own "Movie-Era" shields in the episode "Relics"... (Of course, with Scotty working the controls, all treknology bets are off... :D )
without knowing the speccifics of an episode a) it was TNG tech Vs Movie era - it's 80 years old! b) transporters in the TNG era can beam through known (aka friendly) shields through shield 'windows' (narow EM transparencies in the shields), so if the shield frequency is known, they can beam through it (so probably in that episode they knew the shield window).
As I said we don't known technobabble specifics of Wars shields, so we can't know how they work comparativelly, we just know they have em :D
And Cyberludite, look where you are! :D
One of the funiest conjectures of the laughable 'Wars technical manuals, are the hulls are made up of Neutronium. So aparently that isn't anomorphic distortion caused by translation between TV and film... it's all the people being condensed by superdense supercondensed matter hulls :D
Very entertaining. Unlike most of the STAR TREK vs. STAR WARS stuff I've seen this one isn't entirely one sided (a bit TREK biased, but not like some sites).
THe whole "our fictional spaceships are beter than your fiction spaceships" agrument has become pretty pathetic. I've read lots of posts from people who all claim to be doing things "failr and relaistic" (with an unreal subject), yet TREK winson TREK websites, and WARS wins on WARS sites. In most cases the presenters pick "facts" that support thier theories and ingore those that would contradict their preconcieved conculsions. THere are so many inconsistiencies and technical screwups in both settings that the technical manuals are useless.
Yeah agreed, most are incredibly biassed for one side or another!
The technical journals and expanded universe in both camps also doesn't help either, as they, unlike the shows, can be very specific about a fact which bears no relation to the show, but fanboys take that as the whole basis of their arguments! :D
I don't think that was sided towards trek.. a single hit from one of their weapons was downing the enterprise shields.. thats more than most trek enemies can do :D and we've seen a photon torpedo spread take out half a Borg cube before (before they adapted!) but yes, of all of them, Wars, is the most internally inconsistent, because all of the hero's have shields which are 1000 times better than everyone else (I.e. turbolaser fire which blew up a ship, directly hit R2D2 but he was just a little toasty :D) making sensical breakdowns impossible :D As I already said, figures are meaningless too.. a Technical manual turbolaser might do 200000 jules of power, and a phaser 20000, but the phaser has properties which make it more efective, or allow it to pass through a shield etc... Because their technologies do things we can't concieve of, or explain with physics, exactly what they do is down to the writers and the visual effects departments.. and the VFX guys don't sit down and work out how many joules are in a laser blast before they make the special effect :D
The only and most obvious answer to this has not been given yet: Here it comes:
*engage mechanical voice*
"Impressive. Most impressive!"
*disengage mechanical voice*
:D
(Fights Urge to Scream "They're just fictional characters!!!!!")
Basicly, since all the stats are 'extrapolated' from the movies or books written by people connected to but not part of the groups that make the movies/shows, we have no basis to compare.
I think the point is the same as I make about Comic Book Crossovers: in the end, the winner is the one that the creator wants to win. So Spidey will beat Wolverine, to show that a 'white hat' hero can beat an anti-hero.
It's all a matter of perspective....and dramatic licence!
It is hard to get meanninful numbers from sources that have been known to "retcon" their own information. You can't even trust cannon stuff. :(
I mean, for years I was certain that Solo shot first, and that phasers worked at warp speeds.:confused: :D
I actually did a Star Wars crossover in an old Trek game, and I tried to be as even-handed as possible. Might try doing it again in CODA with the more abstract starship combat system....
Bah.
Let them eat planetkiller! :D
http://koti.mbnet.fi/~samis/hi/model...r_large_fp.jpg
I've done a couple over the years. The first from D6 SW to FASA TREK, the second fromt D6SW to LUGTrek, and the 3rd from D20 SW to CODA Trek. (I was thinking of doing a Blake's7 type SW campaing, with the rebels getting thier hands on a TREK ship like a B'rel-class or Defiant-class).Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Burke
In the D20/CODA conversion, I went with the assumption that a SW medium laser equalled a Star Trek medium laser.
The overall effect was that TREK ships ended up with more powerful weapons than SW ships (Death Stars excepted), but this was offset by the STAR WARS captical ships having a lot more guns. Many other factors also counterbalanced (WARS hypderdrives are faster than TREK warp drives, but TREK ships can fight at FTL speeds).
Or, conversely, the Death Star could meet up with a Borg Cube. While they may be able to blast the Cube itself (and they'd better get the whole thing in one shot, and pray it doesn't have a timesphere), if the Borg beam over, that's all she wrote. Jedi Mind tricks are no match for a collective brain.
And since we're talking about the borg . . . why have we not seen small blue borg . . . or small fury borg talking tagalog?
Or what about Velociborg?
That's all we need-Darth Vader with Borg upgrades. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by First of Two
You have hit upon one of the things about mixing universes. Each side ends of with some serious vulnerabilities due to the differences in setting and technology. Each side also ends up with abilities that the other either cannot match and/or are not aware of. The Borg (at least early TNG era Borg) would be devasting to the Empire. THey can bypass shields, slice up samples of the ship, andcould probably assimilate a Death Star (Hmm, those Borg spheres do look sort of Death-starish).
On the other hand, a Death Star would be very difficult for the Federation to deal with. It would be something that could appear out of nowhere, capable of taking out a planet in a single shot, and then disappear for parts unknown (Since SW ships travel through hyperspace). While the Federation would eventually catch on and determine a way to counter the Death Star, the "trail and error" nature of the encounters would be very costly.
It always amuses me that, for some reason, in all starwars VS startrek battles, the Borg, Hirogen, Federation, Klingons, V'Ger, Wormhole aliens and any other wierdo's join forces to fight the combined might of the empire and the Rebels :D
To that I say.. the Emperor and Darth Vader are all powerful, untill Q turns them into ameoba :D
Killing everyone on a random planet can be a very bad move in Trek, as the Husnocks found out (The Survivors, TNG S3). :eek:
Having Q pestering the emperor and Vader sounds like a fun idea. :D He would probably drive them crazy.
Anyone who have melted the settings together? As an example, instead of the the Dominion War, having Trek and SW space reach eachother. Cardassia and Romulan would probably end up on the same side of the Empire. UFP tries to stay neutral and diplomatic as usual, but ends up joining forces with the rebellion. Orion syndicate ends up trading and fighting the Huts.
This would ofcourse end up in a merging of technologies.
"Captain! Death Star decloaking at one zero five mark ten!" :eek: :D
Depends which era Trek of course but... The Romulans.. are you kidding! A force that massive, fleets that huge.. they would either build a wall of resistance, or ally themselves with the Federation. They do not like the Federation, but understand they wouldn't renege on their deal, the Empire wants to conquor the galaxy, and that upsets the Romulans plans :D .. The Klingons would have fun picking off Tie Fighters in either setting but could probably only muster a force to resist them if it teamed up with the Federation.
Assuming their respective technologies are evenly matched, what happens would really depend on who met whom first... I.e. if they met the Ferengi, and they sold them replicator technology, transporters and one of many banned weapons technologies, cloaking devices or even holodeck technology, and it could radically alter the fate of any war! Likewise mature droid technology could revolutionise any power in trek (imagine if they managed to install Positronic brains into protocol droids!). Also where this encounter occured would be a huge issue... Does the Force exist in our galaxy?! Would our warp drive work there and vice versa. Indeed could they actually navigate our galaxy at all: Almost their entire Galaxy is already mapped, their sensors don't seem to work accross lightyears ranges, which could be a tactical wrinkle!
But all that said GOD this thread is becoming geeky! :D
But outside silly threads like this this must NEVER EVER happen, as entire forums would spring up and FLAMEWARS would ensure just round the topic :D
Is that a bad thing? :D :p :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Tobian
Nah... Step 1, covertly work that an important trap, set by the emperor, have a significant flaw. Step 2, make sure that the rebells can exploit the flaw, resulting in the death of the emperor. Step 3, step in and "help" the empire with its administration. :pQuote:
The Romulans.. are you kidding! A force that massive, fleets that huge.. they would either build a wall of resistance, or ally themselves with the Federation. They do not like the Federation, but understand they wouldn't renege on their deal, the Empire wants to conquor the galaxy, and that upsets the Romulans plans :D
True. But X-Wings would probably be a fun target as well. In any way, any attempt to directly cooperate with either side would probably break down. Except with Wookies perhaps...Quote:
The Klingons would have fun picking off Tie Fighters in either setting but could probably only muster a force to resist them if it teamed up with the Federation.
Considering the Imperial racism, any dealings would have to go through som form of middle men and would cut down on the funding. The rebellion lacks funds and would not be able to buy enough. So I guess that the technology wouldn't be mixed and integrated until all sides was well aware of eachother.Quote:
Assuming their respective technologies are evenly matched, what happens would really depend on who met whom first... I.e. if they met the Ferengi, and they sold them replicator technology, transporters and one of many banned weapons technologies, cloaking devices or even holodeck technology, and it could radically alter the fate of any war! Likewise mature droid technology could revolutionise any power in trek (imagine if they managed to install Positronic brains into protocol droids!). Also where this encounter occured would be a huge issue... Does the Force exist in our galaxy?! Would our warp drive work there and vice versa. Indeed could they actually navigate our galaxy at all: Almost their entire Galaxy is already mapped, their sensors don't seem to work accross lightyears ranges, which could be a tactical wrinkle!
Could be the fundation of a goofing off game. :) And those are supposed to be silly.
*Looks at some old flamewars about he possibility of Star Fleet Marines* *Considers the possibility of a Star Fleet Marines vs. Stormtroopers thread* :eek: *Screams in horror* :DQuote:
But outside silly threads like this this must NEVER EVER happen, as entire forums would spring up and FLAMEWARS would ensure just round the topic :D
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT STARFLEET MARINES!!!! :D
I specifically mentioned Tie Fighters because they don't have shields!!! Targeting on Trek ships seems infinatelly better than Wars, so the combination would mean Tie's would pop :D
The ultimate "taboo" topic rears it's ungly head. :eek: "Divert all power to muliphasic shields!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobian
As for mix n' match, I had set up do do a one Trek ship in a SW setting as a sort of Blkae's 7 type of campaign (the idea was t give the rebels a ship that the Empire would have some difficulty with-something like a B'rel or Defiant-class).
The big obstacle I had with mergin the two universes was the setting in time. That is SW is set "a long time ago in a Galaxy far, far away" whereas ST is set several hundred years into our future. This would make amy group that moves from one setting into the other a fairly permanent thing. Sure, one ship could slingshot back (another idea that I was going to try for a SW campaign was to drop a Starfleet ship into SW through some sort of temporal mishap. The lone ship, in the wrong time frame and even the wrong galaxy would sort of be forced by crcumstances to takes sides).
BTW, while we are mixing differenet Sci-Fi settings, I did manage to successful intergrate Daleks into a SW campaign. Worked like a charm. Even got the Imperials and rebels to have a sort of temporary truce. :D
Get over it, some do some do not.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyg
You still got the stats lying around anyplace...please...:)Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyg
Well, I don't know whether Trek or Wars would win in a bigass battle.
In any case, it's all moot, 'cause James T. Kirk woulda seduced the pants off Padme long before Anakin was even humpin' age, so the Empire never would've even gotten out of spaceport.
End of discussion. I think. :D
LQ
I meant "taboo" as in topic of discussion on this forum, not in regards to the actual subject itself. Said topic was/is noted for generating a lt of comments from both sides of the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Probably. Most likely on a hard drive somewhere. Yeah, somewhere. BTW, what set/version of Dalek stats do you want- Star Wars D20, Star Wars D6, ICOn, or CODA. I've done several writeups at various times. Usually stuff like that got shelved until I worked out just how I wanted the adventure to run and worked out the details as well as decide if my players could handle it. For example the Dalek story got placed in a outwer world/fring area in the Star Wars Universe to keep it from mucking up the setting. One thing I was concerned with at the time was being able to have the Doctor show up at the end of the story arc and rid the Star Wars universe of the Dalek menace. I just had to do it in such a way as the Doctor didn't deal with the Empire-so he wouldn't take it down while he was in the neighborhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
I love this sort of discussions, especially because they can never be quite solved and you can find endless new and funny ideas including both universes. I really love cross overs, actually.
What could really tip the balance is the way you handle the Force. Either it's another telepathic power, or it's something faaaar more powerful than anything existing in Trek.
Just imagine this...
- Captain, we have encountered a new galactic power, extremely hostile.
- Are they dangerous ?
- Well... no. We can transport through their shields, their weapons are laser based and don't affect our shields, and their blasters are like very weak disruptors.
- Okay... We'll send ambassadors to establish a truce. They'll cooperate no matter their feelings, since we could obliterate them.
Meanwhile....
- We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender unconditionnally...
- *ksshhht*Now you'll obey me*kshhhht*
- We are the Borg. We serve the Empire.
:D
D20 and ICON...Cool :eek: both my groups will hate me now :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tonyg
As for the "M" word in Trek, I'm just tired of hearing about it, sorry about the snapish reply. Both sides are well entrenched.
This would be something much more dangerous then a Dominion v Borg war . . . which some discribe as an ultimate battle in the Star Trek Universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by C5
Imagine dropping a borg cube ontop of Imperial Courscant. Imagine the implications . . . imagine the wake in the force that would have . . . imagine . . . if a lone Federation ship followed it through the transwarp conduit . . . a one way mission . . . but in seperate parts of the Star Wars galaxy . . . say the lone Federation ship over Mon Calamari
Imagine the roleplaying possibilities!
Don't forget about the third party that used to take the middle ground. But we where to busy running for cover when the flame wars started :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
So do I. At least as long no one starts to take it to religiously.Quote:
Originally Posted by C5
I have no problem with the 'M' word as long as it stays out of Canon material (post Enterprise of course), and as far away from me as possible :D Fanboys have just the same freedom of expression as everyone else :D
Crossovers are one thing, because at least then there is a reason behind things, what I do intensilly dislike is Genre mixing for no reason... aka Trek characters with Light sabres, because they are 1337 :D
Hmm you know what would be fun (crossover or not) that lone Starfleet ship using the under-used aspect of Ships phasers... Stun MUAHAHAHAA :D
But yes, it has to be said that the Borg in the SW universe would be frightening, moreso than in Trek, because of the number of habited planets, all with just SO MUCH ship technology, and (relativelly) much shorter travel distances! We forget the Borg are not just killing machines, they assimilate too.. It only takes one drone to get on one small ship, and they have assimilated hyperdrive technology, turbolasers, blasters, and how their shield technology works and everything! Then it's uh oh time!, because Wars is a fairly stable technological level, indeed, with the exception of the Death star, it goes down before ANH, from the prequel trilogy! :)
I remind someone (I forgot who :o) once posted on these boards what would happen should a Borg cube venter into Empire territory :
First Borg cube is destroyed by a Star Destroyer.
Second Borg cube destroys half of the Empire Fleet before being critically damaged by the Death Star and eventually finished by the remains of the Fleet.
Third Borg cube assimilate the entire Empire.
I think the only thing that could help the SW-verse against the Borg might be the Force. It seems the Borg are not too much comfortable against psi powers, and they'd have a hard time adapting to telekinesis and such... not to mention mind tricks, which could endanger a drone link to the Collective. On the other hand, should a Jedi be assimilated and the Force another Borg weapon...
Another funny thought : TOS planet killer could be a later model of the DeathStar...
We haven't even dealt with Species 8472 either LOL - those guys are powerful enough with Psionics, that they would be a massive threat to even powerful Force users! They also have drive technology which is comparable (i.e. easilly just as fast, much as Borg Transwarp conduits are) and get together 9 of their ships - HAHAHAHAHA byebye Death Star! They could easilly pick of even executor level capital ships, just like the Death Star did! :D
Going back to the Dominion: I am not really that convinced they would be as effective agains the colective as people think... For one, the Dominion was scary because a) they had huge numbers of ships, b) they were slightly more technologically avanced than the Federation and c) they were powerful spapeshifters..
Ok well A) huge numbers of small ships would be pointless against the Borg, because as soon as they adapted to their shields, they would begin assimilating, and Jem Hadar Drones would be formidable! Smaller ships would just make picking them off faster, as Drones beamed on to them, rapidly assimilating the very few crew!
B) The Borg surpassed the Dominion and has the distinct advantage it can turn you into it.
C) The founders had fun unballancing politics and giving people the runaround, which gave them a decided advantage. All of that would be rendered useless against the collective, as there are no politics! A shapeshifter would have a hard time disguising himself as a Borg drone, as their collective would identify he was not one of them (akak not connected to the network)!
Also, The Borg are capable of amassing an armada, and as a much larger 'war' force is present, than with Alpha quadrant powers, they would send one. They scale the invasion relative to a) the worth of their foe to them (I.e how many goodies and cool technology they can pinch!) and b) how much of a tactical threat it is: So really, as a better prize, they would likelly send out more than one cube! :D The great Link is also a huge vulnerability to the Dominion, as most of the Founders all live in one place.. A Single Founder assimilated would reveal where to find them, and without the Founders, the Dominion would flat out collapse!
I think the thing that people have to consider with sitatons like "The Borg in SW" is that the Federation isn't as big or powerful as the Repulbic/Empire in SW. I think that while the Federation seems to have a qualitive edge in ships and crews, the Republic/Empire can muster a lot more forces. This would give them a better chance against the Borg that people seem to be giving them.
Both ST and SW seem t have the undelying rules that "good will triumph over evil" and "man is better than machine". I think the Borg would be defeated in either universe, just that it would probably take longer and be blodier in the SW one.
BTW, Bad news on finding my D20 SW and CODA Dalek write-ups. I've search the hard drive, but can't find the file (heck, I can't even locate the folder-and it had other stuff like a D20 cyberman supplement I had downloaded). I DID find some of my notes, tucked in between my FASA WHO and TIMELORD rpgs, so I should be able to recreate the file. I started work on it last night, and should finish it up in a day or so.
I've got a working rough write-up, now I'm just translasting and cleaning stuff up into game terms. Working up a species writeup and then adoing up the "suvival unit" as a cross between body armor and a droid. A few snags, for exampleI had to reduce the Dalek's armor from around 20 to 15 in SW, and might end up lowering it to 13 or 11. Sort of conficting goals between being bulletproof, but still vulnerable to SW blasters--CODA will be a lot easier to work this into, as was D6 SW (it differentiated between physical and energy attacks).
I do agree with you on a fundamental level about the good/evil thing, but as I have said , how any possible conflicts will entirelly depend on how such an encounter would occur. A Random meeting of the Replublic and the Federation would simply not result in conflict. A meeting between the Federation and the Empire would mean accordingly the Federation would win, because in both contexts, 'Good' would win.
The Borg meeting the empire.. difficult.. neither have a Evil Vs Evil clause :D If a lone ship wandered into the Empire - it would be destroyed by a huge fleet of vessels picking on it, before it could adapt. A lone Star Destroyer would likewise suffer a resounding defeat, and likewise the Borg, having assimilated some of the foremost technology, crew and one of the best ships in the fleet, would proceed to bo back to whence it came to get more jewels of power ;) (If it could!) Where the empire would do well would simply be raw attacking force, compared to the Federation, but part of that would depends on communication and mobilisation (much like the federation) undertstanding what they face early on would go a long way... But the Borg have a nasty habit of just turning up where you least want them and expect them! :D A Random 3km square cube shaped ship turning up on the edge of an industrialised world, such as Corruscant, might raise eyebrows, but it's not exceptionally big... and then strange aliens begin appearing like Magic on the surface, which don't die when you hit them with blasters... or lightsabers :D A Planet like that has teeming trillions, and the consequences would be scary ! :D
Yeah, it could be scary, but such a story is the sort of thing that either makes of prt of a novel (or trilogy) or is just backstory for another story where good beats evil. For example, if the Borg started to assimilate the Empire, it would problably lead to a Rebel and Imperial Forces joining sides against the greater threat--probably leading to the Imperial Forces actually seeing just what the rebels are really like.
Keep in mind, while the leaders of the Empire are evil, a large percentage of the Imperal Forces (indeed the majoirty) are people who beleive they are doing good, maintaining law and order, and protecting the citizens of the Empire from anarchy and terror.
A Federation meets the Empire encounter might not turn into a "good guy" vs. "Bad buy" fight at all. The Federation isn't going to be the agressor. The Imperials would probably be diplomatic-(in part to learn more about the UFP, but also becuase the UFP has some surface similarities). From a military standpoint it would not make much sense to attack the Federation (attacking an unknown quanity that otherwise would be firendly, won't interfer with imperial policy). The Empire unlike many of the major powers in the Trek Universe isn't expansionistic-it just want to consolidate it control over what it already has.
THe big "Star Destroyers vs. Starships" showdown is sort of unlikely.
OK say for scenario sake . . . a borg cube's transwarp system goes haywire . . . and it pops into the outerskirts of the corescant system. Of course the borg, being intellegent, would like to know its advisary first. So it takes a couple small-medium sized vessel. In doing so they assimilate the technology . . . and knowledge of the entire SW galaxy . . . since the vast majority is mapped.
They send a signal . . . which will take a VERY long time to reach the rest of the collective . . . therefore, they understand that they need to consolidate their resources . . . and move towards the outer realm . . . where their actions will go less noticed.
After a while . . . due to the massive populations . . . the borg can continue to operate outside of the republic/imperial realm . . . as long as it doesn't endanger it.
After a while, they will have a sizable enough force . . . to strike en mass. . . . and working as we have scene . . . they attempt to strike the heart first . . . and designate an ambassador of sorts . . . say a Darth? And out of no where, with the use of hyperdrive . . . they pop over Corescant . . . and begin to do their thing . . . knowing how to combat the force . . . and taking a planet of trillions.
The empire and the agents of the rebellion/new republic are taken a back. There is a new threat . . . that does not care for their ideas of good and evil . . . light and dark . . . just a locust with a maddening need to feed and grow Will the two sides decide to join forces against this new threat? Will the idea of the Death Star . . . become a godsend . . . and thought as the ultimate sterilizer against an almost unstoppable evil?
Imagine the shattered remnents of the Old Republic/Empire and members of the former rebellion actually working towards the construction of the Death Star.
Well, I was partly missing the point, but I think you also missed mine: The relative strengths of the weapons and defenses are largely irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobian
If I cannot be hit, and you cannot dodge my shots, then I don't need any defenses at all, and even if I am using a pea-shooter against your WWII battleship, if anyone ever wins it will be me.
If you are using STL weapons, my FTL sensors will tell me where you are shooting and my FTL drive will take me away from there. However, your STL sensors will do you no good in predicting where my FTL weapons are going.
Star Trek supposes FTL weapons, sensors, and drives. That gives its ships a significant tactical advantage over those of any setting that does not.
That doesn't make Trek "cooler", but it does make "who'd win" discussions kinda pointless. :)