Is starship combat too streamlined?

I recently dropped my players into a trap that should have put them at serious risk. Instead they skated out of it with some minor damage and the loss of their ablative armor (proving that it's worth it as is). Admitedly they got creative with using a tractor beam and managed to roll a 30 on the comm. officer's jamming roll. The main reason for my question is that they used the target systems maneuver to take out both starboard warp nacelles of the custom ship that was leading the attack; which according to game mechanics meant the lead ship was facing 2 core meltdowns and was forced to dump both cores thus making it dead it space.

As a result of this debacle I'm thinking of seperating the damage into individual types of propulsion and weapon systems. I'm also curious on what other people think the combat uses of a tractor beam are like what effect being caught in one has on a ships protection.

I've thought the same myself about the weapons systems too, but part of it is down to tactics and careful use of the rules.

I would put that down to a learning experience and next time tweak the scenario to prevent that from happening. Oh and BTW, they must have gotten phenomenal rolls to achieve all that, and the ship should have been able to retaliate during the time they got the lock-on etc. I'm also curious how the ship had 2 warp cores ?! (or do you mean the ship purchased 2 of them?) Criticals are one thing, but it should only have the onewarp core regardless of how many criticals it apparently suffers! It also has a chance to styme the damage and recover, there are also rules for that! :) But still, there is nothing you can do if players get several sequential phenomenal rolls on their dice.. that's just bad luck (for you!)

You can also turn that down into an up... Maybe the enemy ship has local allies who are angry at their friends / allies defeat, maybe the crew of that shp all fly out in shuttles and attack again :D (3-4 runabout-sized ships are also lethal in Coda hehehehe) think of it as a story opportunity! :)

Yeah do not think game balance, it's not D&D.

Ships (in real life, and in Trek) are subject to being crippled from one lucky or a few lesser hits to critical systems.

That's just the nature of it.

I would think that tractoring or being tractored would have no effect on protection, but I am not all that familiar with Decipher's rules. It's more of a tactic to keep someone at range or at a certain facing.

And I am confused as to how "Both" nacelles on one side were knocked out.. does the ship have 4 of them, like a Stargazer? Or ?

And, I am wondering what jamming did or how it was involved. something with 4 full nacelles should have power for shielding to spare.

Without more details, though, I can't comment, other than these guesses.

NB: Thinking on, I can't remember what range it has, but warp cores also cause damage when they explode! If they ship was desperate they could have tried to eject them towards the ship, or simply have caught them within the blast radius, especially if it was previously in a tractor hold! :)

Yes the ship had 2 warp cores, yes they were lucky rolls by my players, and no I didn't think about trying to use the warp cores as missles. And the Maquis is not at all happy about the ship escaping their trap, although they sent some of their best ships after them, so they'll probably resort to other means to exact their revenge (hostage-taking, assassination attempts, etc.) Any other twisted ideas would be appreciated

As far as the tractor beam went I required the Ops officer to hit the target like he was using a weapon and was forced to wing it from there.

To be honest, the maquis, even with 2 of their 'best' ships shouldn't have been able to have pulled off such an audacious plan as their ships are usually WAY outgunned by Starfleet vessels, because they have only got access to small or old vessels, compared to local Starfleet vessels (which neccessarily have to be cutting edge in that period, because of the tensions with Cardassia!).

The Maquis tend not to fight straight, but often have considerable tactical experience (think Chakotay or Eddington) which they use to do sting raids! Really you ave to think what motivations the Maquis have in a given story: They rarely pursue 'revenge' or 'battle' because they rarelly can win, and do much better with espionage, information gathering, supplies and occasionally terrorism.

Thinking on it, if that crew wishes to get 'revenge' on the ship they could lead them into another kind of trap.. The maquis might have information of a Cardassian build up in a 'hidden base' but can't do anything about it, and have no lines of comunication with Starfleet to let them know.. so they could pull a trap to lure the players ship into that sector, and close enough to the Cardassians to sweat and retaliate... The Maquis could even complete the illusion by faking a Cardassian transponder, leading the Federation to pursue an illegal Cardassian intrusion into their space, and the Cardassians to believe one of their compatriots was in trouble, leading a gullible Gul to attack, even though he is supposed to stay hidden. This could be quite handy as it would both expose the conspiracy and lessen the pressure on local Maquis, and hopefully give the characters ship quite a bloody nose in the process! :)

Thanks for the idea, I just might use it when the ship returns to the area again (Admiral Nychayev sent them on a survey mission to get them out of the hot zone for a while.).

I still would like some opinions on the uses of a tractor beam in combat...

I wonder if the Maquis could've gained the resources or wherewithal to hire mercenaries or privateers to harass Cardassian shipping for them. Perhaps governments like the Miradorn would encourage it themselves, if they smelled blood...

Again, I can't see the maquis having that sort of resource, however, again, I can see them using sophisticated espionage techniques to roll enemy species into the conflict, in much the same way as the Dominion enraged the Tzengethi into nearly going to war with the Federation again..

Something else that always struck me as a potential for a story is: We know practically nothing about either subjugated races within the Cardassian Union (if any) or possible enemies on the far side of Federation space: because Cardassia prime is SO close to bajor and Federation space, I always imagined (as did fan maps!) if Cardassian space expanded away from Federation space quite a bit. Historic information on the Cardassians indicated they expanded very rapidly, so they must have crushed and subjugated some of the very populous trek-verse. What would happen if some of those peoples contacted either the Federation or the Maquis. The Federation could do little to intervene (due to it's non interference policies) other than Diplomacy, much as with Bajor, but the Maquis: it could be a huge potential for alliance..

This leads on to two possible post dominion threads; What happens if some of the Maquis were visiting these potential allies, far from the 'hot zone' when the Cardassians joined with the Dominion and completelly crushed the Maquis. At that point the war was on, and there was little they could do, except maybe ferry some information to old contacts in the Federation (Many Maquis were in the Federation or Starfleet, or would know contacts by association with them) to aid the Federation (The Maquis would want both revenge and never truly oposed the Federation). These Maquis, post war would then have allies, who had nothing to do with the war, would not be ravaged by it (and this side of Cardassian space would likelly have a very minimal force present!) and could help the maquis renew their war to carve out freedom in their corner of space post dominion war..

Secondly: Assuming these species were less advanced than the Cardassians (and therefore Federation) or simply less militarily oriented. The maquis could have fed them Federation and Cardassian technology secrets... The maquis didn't have the sort of resources to build starships, but a couple of core worlds!! This in and of it's self could create a monster.. what happens if, post domiion war, a previously unheard of species suddenly emerges from the far side of Cardassian space, and begins laying siege to it's battered and crushed planets and forces. The Cardassians are not completelly defenceless: Their spacefleet was still largelly intact at the end of the war, but only just, and many repair facilities were destroyed. How does the Federation react to this? It wants peace with the Cardsassians, but it's unlikelly to side with them, or the enemy. Could prove very nasty!

On an unrelated note: We never got to see what happened to the Screean - they were situated not far from the 'hot zone' had thousands of (if delapidated) ships and had reason to fear the Dominion, since they fled them through the wormhole! I wonder how people used them in the war?! :D

Here's a question, though.. does Decipher have the rights to do a starship combat game? (say, miniatures based?)

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Originally Posted by TFVanguard

Here's a question, though.. does Decipher have the rights to do a starship combat game? (say, miniatures based?)

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They were, iirc.

Hmm.. Anyone know who to contact at Decipher to find out? I got some interesting... news... from other contacts.

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Originally Posted by TFVanguard

Hmm.. Anyone know who to contact at Decipher to find out? I got some interesting... news... from other contacts.

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PGoodman? I have no idea what the status of their licenses are now.

...I might be thinking of Engage. Or... Red Alert?

Why, is someone else making a trek minis game?

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Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

PGoodman? I have no idea what the status of their licenses are now.

...I might be thinking of Engage. Or... Red Alert?

Why, is someone else making a trek minis game?

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No (well, not exactly Trek), but I've got reason now to encourate them to do it. And, also, found out explicitly that Decipher can use FASA's designs, etc, as Decipher used LUG's. (Have to recreate it all, but it's all part of Trek).

This opens a lot up, obviously, and I was wondering if Decipher would consider a plastic minis game.

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Originally Posted by TFVanguard

No (well, not exactly Trek), but I've got reason now to encourate them to do it. And, also, found out explicitly that Decipher can use FASA's designs, etc, as Decipher used LUG's. (Have to recreate it all, but it's all part of Trek).

This opens a lot up, obviously, and I was wondering if Decipher would consider a plastic minis game.

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I'm not sure they have the resources to do that any time soon. Once their CCGs start looking less iffy, maybe, and if they adjust their expectations as to how much profit they'll be getting. Given that collectable minis are now a thing, though...

I'll ask and see what I can do. TFVanguard, if you could do me an enormous favor and email me with some of the info you received, so I can use it to back me up....

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Originally Posted by PGoodman13

I'll ask and see what I can do. TFVanguard, if you could do me an enormous favor and email me with some of the info you received, so I can use it to back me up....

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I'll send along a message to go to you, since the email and discussion I got wasn't for 'public dissemination'. Effectively, Microsoft said, unequivocally, Paramount has all rights to ALL creative (not system) material to FASA's Trek license.

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Originally Posted by TFVanguard

I'll send along a message to go to you, since the email and discussion I got wasn't for 'public dissemination'. Effectively, Microsoft said, unequivocally, Paramount has all rights to ALL creative (not system) material to FASA's Trek license.

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And Jordan would know....

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Originally Posted by TFVanguard

I'll send along a message to go to you, since the email and discussion I got wasn't for 'public dissemination'. Effectively, Microsoft said, unequivocally, Paramount has all rights to ALL creative (not system) material to FASA's Trek license.

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So I guess the question is, did they/would they/should they pass those on to Decipher?

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Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

So I guess the question is, did they/would they/should they pass those on to Decipher?

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That's the $64,000 question. It depends on Decipher's rights for the game, and if they're specifically limited to the movies and television show. I don't know if 'previous game material' would be acceptable (in some form) under the old license.

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Originally Posted by TFVanguard

That's the $64,000 question. It depends on Decipher's rights for the game, and if they're specifically limited to the movies and television show. I don't know if 'previous game material' would be acceptable (in some form) under the old license.

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I wonder whether the use of LUGtrek material came simply because it was mostly the same people (and there was no specifics in the license one way or another), or whether there was a specific clause that let them carry it over...