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For a new Captain during the TNG Era, what do you think is a good first time ship?
I was thinking Excelsior Class or Miranda.
Oerth would be at the bottom of the list.
I don't think Akira, Nebula, Galaxy, Sovereign, or Ambassador would be good for someone who has never sat in the Captain's chair.
What do you guys think?
New Orleans, Cheyenne maybe. Miranda, definitely.
I'd think any of the 'smaller' ships - Cheyenne, Constellation, Miranda.. possibly, during late TNG, a Saber, Steamrunner, Intrepid or Norway. I'd personally think of an Excelsior as better for 'second-tier' Captains - those who have already captained a smaller vessel. Of course, as with anything, circumstances can change this - a highly experienced first officer (one posted to a critical ship, such as Riker, or one exposed to highly challenging circumstances for a prolonged period of time (Chakotay) would be prime examples) might be shunted directly to a large ship, on the basis that they're already as command-experienced as a lot of Captains, despite never having held a formal command of their own.
-Tor
Oberth for a LCDR or CDR.
Miranda for a CDR
Excelsior, that's a full bird captain's ship. Ditto for a galaxy.
A galaxy might even be a ship for a 2nd or 3rd tour Captian on his way to Commodore.
On my Navy Ship, a medium Cruiser, our CO was Full Captain Rank.
But, as others have said, the needs of the service dictate.
But no LT is gonna command a Galaxy, unless the bridge crew is dead, and he's taking charge from Engineering or some other extreme emergency like that.
Escort / Patrol Boat LT
Frigate LCDR
Destroyer CDR
Cruiser CDR/ CAPT , perhaps with flag admiral aboard, if a command ship.
Battleship CAPT perhaps w/ flag admiral aboard.
what are the captain skills ? Star fleet would assign the officer to the best post to use his or her talents .
The ship may be one of the smaller ones .
What kind of Captain are we talking about here?
In our game, we have a Lt. Commander that is thinking on becoming a Captain. He has all Prereqs for Commander and Captain.
I am leaning towards the Cheyenne, even though in Spacedock, it is a bit more powerful than the Excelsior.
He has been a Commander on our game for about a year (off and on) and he is serving on a Nebula Class Starship.
My player wants to be a Captain and he has Ally and Patron Advantages as well.
So I like the Cheyenne Idea. She is a fairly new ship and kinda different.
I say that every "captain" of the LTCMDR (O-4) or CMDR (O-5) grades should have to go through smaller commands prior to even being allowed to move up to a larger command that requires one to be a Full Bird CAPT (O-6).
Therefore, a Miranda or a Sabre . . . or in a stretch a Cheyenne, New Orleans, Steamrunner . . . would be the more likely command responsibilities . . .
Or a CO of a squadron of Runabouts/Talons . . . but that's going towards a different line of command.
Think of the command tracks . . . that we have today . . . just because one was a CO for a Bn of Infantry, that does not mean that you would make a great CO for a Support Bde.
Same goes here . . . what is this officer's specialty?
It makes sence that if CMDR Crusher continued to serve, that she would ultimatly get a command of her own . . . such as a CSH/MASH or a Hospital Ship . . . but would she ever be offered a command for the equivalent of an Ohio Class SSBN? Never.
Although a lot of the ships are multi-mission by design . . . each has an edge towards a certain field . . . match that edge with the Captain of the ship to maximaze that ships potential.
Well the Commander started in Security, and rose to head of Security, then got into Command.
His specialty is Starship Tactics and Command (Starship) so I am thinking that the Cheyenne is a good choice for him. Our campaign happens shortly after Wolf 359 and Starfleet is desperate for new Captains and crews. The crew of the Cheyenne I am making will be mostly fresh out of Starfleet Academy. Only Commander is the 1st Officer, and there will be a few Lt.
I say a Steamrunner . . . say for the second or third ships shakedown cruise . . . would make a good start.
But if you want to go for something older . . . say the Niagara.
For a brand new captain such as you describe, I've got to go with a Miranda. Once this young turk has earned their bones, then they would get a better ship, but for first command I have to go with a Miranda and probably one just out of mothballs since you mention your campaign is right after Wolf 359.
Greetings to everyone! I liked this topic and I will share some of my ideas with you.
The most important on this matter is the player's skills. He or she must have some experience and feeling about real life leadership.
I'd put some NPC's, superior or not, to gather more information about the player’s skills interests, points of view, roleplaying interviews or simple conversations about Star Trek Universe politics or local situations.
Otherwise your game can become just a roll dice matter, or become difficult to manage, because is not wise to send an aggressive captain to take a diplomat or scientific mission, for instance.
We must have in mind that our series will be based mostly in captain’s decisions, because of that, is wise the game master send this new captain to take simple missions to gather experience, and the game master gather the feeling of how the player will react when facing several situations.
Take a look on spacedock on ship’s commissioning date, because the project date is more important than the size of ship. The Defiant class was released several years before Wolf 359, in fact, Defiant and Steamrunner projects, were designed based on experience gathered on the battle of Wolf 369. There are smaller ships more powerfull than many Excelsior or even Galaxy class starships.
The tactic I would take is asess the character's personality give him / her that renown, and just play it out. Science mission, Diplomatic mission, whatever.
Also, have an XO (PC or NPC )or an Admiral NPC advise them, in game, via roleplay if they are screwing up.
Admiral Jones: "Captain, make no mistake, this is a delicate mission, which requires diplomacy, not gunboat diplomacy. We need those dilithium resources, but not at phaser-point. We are not Klingons, we are the Federation."
It adds drama.
There is something to be said for playing out a few simple mission, though to simulate their experience coming up through the ranks.
But if you are going to DO that, why not just set it up that way in the first place? Don't make them a captain, make them an XO, with an NPC Captain, showing them the ropes. then after 4 or 5 missions, the NPC is promoted to Admiral, the XO makes captain, but they can rely on the NPC admiral for advice....but since the NPC admiral now runs a sector / battlegroup, and not just one ship, they are not available and on call for advice, all the time, thus allowing the PC to grow on his/her own.
And, over time, at a critical point, if they are relying on advice too much, the Admiral can say" Look, Captain, we put you in command to make your own decisions, accomplish the mission, and report back." OR "You and your Executive officer should get together on this. Inform me of your combined plan to deal with the situation in 6 solar hours. Commodore XXX out.
I liked Next generation more in that they had picard dealing with seniors a lot more. Kirk was sometimes allowed to be a really loose cannon. (though the Era and setting supported it.) But he was always on the verge of starting a war, stopped by McCoy.
Good luck.
I've always thought the Intrepid class was a perfect ship for either a new captain or for any Star Trek RPG campaign. That's b/c it's not too big & powerful, like Galaxy or Sovereign classes, & not too small & underpowered, like Oberth or Nova classes.
It's crew complement is about 150 which is more manageable than a crew of 400.
It has powerful engines & just enough firepower to handle some bigger ships for a brief time or w/ lots of luck. Yet, it is not so overwhelming powerful that only a few other types of ships pose any threat.
Anyways, that's just my opinion. You have to look at your own campaign & your own players & find the ship that works best for both.
I think the point is, that you don't want to get a green CO to be given anything close to a ship of the line until they have proven themselves worthy to command a ship and crew of that stature. Otherwise, why not give a newly minted LTCMDR a Galaxy Class Explorer?
Rather, you have to earn the right to the privledge and hardship that comes with a command of higher natures.
So what is a ship of the line in this context? Would experience vs. offensive power be Starfleet's primary consideration when assigning someone to a ship?Quote:
I think the point is, that you don't want to get a green CO to be given anything close to a ship of the line until they have proven themselves worthy to command a ship and crew of that stature. Otherwise, why not give a newly minted LTCMDR a Galaxy Class Explorer?
--
I think an important point is that, being a PC, this character has both 'protagonist aura' and has probably run into dozens of bizarre situations, and lived. Given all the interesting stuff that happens to Trek PCs, they get a fairly interesting record, which would probably help them get noticed and respected when it comes to promotions : P
So how old is the character? What's his career been like, in terms of stuff he's been through?
I'd assume somehing along the lines of rank (a good indication of overall command ability in a military or paramilitary organization) probably bounced up for exerpeicne, famous incidents or an favorable renown rating (in ICON this would be renowen higher than expeacted for the rank in question), and by high scores in signficant skills (for example someone serving along the Romulan border with a high Starship Tactics (Romulan) skill might get a larger or more combat cpable ship is serving a tour on the Rom border).Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King
As a rule of thumb, Captains seem to get the larger, better ships. THe cutting edge/top of the line ships (the "Starships" in TOS) go to Captains with a distinguised career. Commanders seem to get ships a little smaller/less capable (1-2 SIZ lower), and so forth.
Here is a little background information on the Character.
2355
Graduated Starfleet Academy
Specialized in Security
Rank: Ensign
Age: 22
2356
Cadet Cruise aboard the U.S.S. Calypso (Miranda Class, Capt. Fargo)
Saved the Captain's life during an away mission
Rank: Lieutenant Jg.
Position: Security
Age: 23
2357-2360
Served aboard the U.S.S. Archer (Excelsior Class. Capt. Randolph)
Fought the Cardassians (Cardassian / Federation War)
Rank: Lieutenant
Position: Security
Age: 27
2360-2364
Served aboard the U.S.S. Valley Forge (Ambassador Class, Capt. Morgan)
Rescued Federation vessel on Cardassian Border and held off 4 Galor Class Warships.
Rank: Lt. Commander
Position: Security (2nd in Command of Security)
Age: 31
2364-2367
Served aboard the U.S.S. Poseidon (Nebula Class, Capt. Clark)
Ship destroyed at Wolf 359, Received a Medal for saving the crew when most of the bridge officers were dead or unconcious (Ordered the evacuation of the ship). Saved the Captain's life.
Rank: Commander
Position: Chief of Security
Age: 34
2367-2370
Served aboard rebuilt U.S.S. Poseidon (Galaxy Class, Capt. Clark)
Name came to attention of Admiral Kane due to number of missions that he was instrumental in.
Has full support of his Captain
Rank: Commander
Position: 1st Officer
Age: 37
2370
Possible promotion to Captain.
Possibly a Cheyenne Class Starship
Age: 37
There is his background. Maybe this will help but I am thinking that a Cheyenne Class Starship is really the way to go for him.
Thanks for all the great feedback.
:D
I see with this in ICON / LUG a few things:
If you are using the Player's Guide & Bridge Qualification rules:
2364, he'd be sent from the ship to command school, thus promoted from LCDR to CDR. He'd also at that time, typically be made XO of his next ship. PLUS Transferring from Security to Command branch.. no more security assignments.
If still using PG, but the Line officer rules instead...
He'd take the Line Officer advantage at some point...and at that point switch from Security to Command.
Also, I would think (yeah sure up to you) that most ships will not have a full commander in charge of security as that is the XO's Rank slot, typically, especially on the larger ships. Smaller ships, the Commanding officer himself is going to be Commander Rank.
Now sure your guy might be a Commander, with the XO having more time in grade.. it just seems.. a little weird / strange to me.
Certainly hes using a lot of his career on promotion points. looks like 2 pts per tour, on some tours. I see that as him being a hard charger.
Other than that, As written, I'd approve him for any of my own games, good job.
Looks like most any of my own PCs. It might be an interesting exercise to post some of mine here.
I personally would have given him/her one more tour of duty in an XO position, maybe aboard the Patron's flagship. That way he/she can show how good he/she really is. This could lead to a more modern vessel if he/she prove his/her salt infront of the patron.
Furthermore, it gives him/her more contacts with those who he/she may need help from when he/she is captain.
Furthermore, it allows the player a couple points to spend on more character building skills.
For one is defined by more then their job.
Nice suggestions!!
Thanks for the response.
I'm gonna tweak it some and see how he likes it.
OK,
So it should look like this...
2355
Graduated Starfleet Academy
Specialized in Security
Rank: Ensign
Age: 22
2356
Cadet Cruise aboard the U.S.S. Calypso (Miranda Class, Capt. Fargo)
Saved the Captain's life during an away mission
Rank: Lieutenant Jg.
Position: Security
Age: 23
2357-2360
Served aboard the U.S.S. Archer (Excelsior Class. Capt. Randolph)
Fought the Cardassians (Cardassian / Federation War)
Rank: Lieutenant
Position: Security (2nd in Command of Security)
Age: 27
2360-2364
Served aboard the U.S.S. Valley Forge (Ambassador Class, Capt. Morgan)
Rescued Federation vessel on Cardassian Border and held off 4 Galor Class Warships.
Rank: Lt. Commander
Position: Head of Security
Age: 31
2364
Command and Bridge Certification
2365-2367
Served aboard the U.S.S. Poseidon (Nebula Class, Capt. Clark)
Ship destroyed at Wolf 359, Received a Medal for saving the crew when most of the bridge officers were dead or unconcious (Ordered the evacuation of the ship). Saved the Captain's life.
Rank: Commander
Position: First Officer
Age: 34
2367-2370
Served aboard rebuilt U.S.S. Poseidon (Galaxy Class, Capt. Clark)
Name came to attention of Admiral Kane due to number of missions that he was instrumental in.
Has full support of his Captain
Rank: Commander
Position: 1st Officer
Age: 37
2370
Possible promotion to Captain.
Possibly a Cheyenne Class Starship
Age: 37
Ok so this would give him more time in the First Officer position.
With the security/tactical background, I'd suspect they'd give him something more "defense" oriented -- maybe a Steamrunner or a Norway.
That's why I was thinking a Cheyenne.
Crew 250.
Phasers 16 (Icon Rules)
Topredoes 20
Shields 48/70
It's not too overboard and since it's right after Wolf 359, I'm loading it with inexpierienced crewmembers (Ensigns and Lt.).
The Norway and Steamrunner are a bit on the Powerufl side.
I wanted him to earn his next ship (which is probubly going to be an Akira Class).
We were gaming the other night, and they were at a Starbase (74 I think) and the Commander hit it off with an Admiral. I was thinking that the Admiral liked him so much, and was impressed with his record, that he would offer him a command. It would be a temporary thing at first (he would keep his Commander Rank and be acting Captain), but if did well with a few missions, he would be promoted. Especially since they lost so many Starfleet personel at Wolf 359.
You don't need to be a four pip, "full bird", Captain to be called "Captain". For instance . . . there are CPTs, LT Equivalent, that command companys (average 160 souls) . . . or LTC, CMDR, Equivalent that command Bn size elements (3-7 Companys).
So why must you insist on giving him/her four pips to command.
Let him command as a CMDR . . . there is precidence for it, and it keeps with navy tradition. But I would highly suggest giving him a upgraded Miranda first . . . make him really earn his next command. The Cheyenne always seemed to me to be for the guy who is "Jonny on the spot", where as the Miranda is slow, dilliberate, and prodding.
Maybe even through in a rotation of midshipmen on their cadet cruise, say 15-20, to liven things up a bit . . . this also allows your gaming group, if you want it, to play real lower-deck missions, if you wanted them to.
Or how about a Renaissance Class
Or how about a Springfield Class
What kind of ship does the player want?
He wants an Akira, Nebula, Ambassador, Galaxy...all the high ends.
I have no prob with an Excelsior or anything lower, but those ship I stated above just seem kinda high end.
Then . . . give him something with a cool sounding name . . . have the admiral present it to him . . . and it's like something that was once top of the line, but is now used by Planetary Defense Fleets as a garbage scow. :D
No but seriously, give him something that will challange his gaming style . . . something that will have to make him and his crew work for his victories . . . or find ways other then powering through them.
Or give him the size 5 CVL that I created for Spacedock ;-)
If you do that, tell me what you think about it.
As folks have said, what kind of ship you're offered has a lot to do with what sort of person you are and how you got the command. After all, Kirk's first command was one of the biggest and best ships Starfleet had. The other captains of Constitution Class ships tended to be former Academy Instructors of Kirk's, or Commodores, or both. :)
They pulled out the "Big Chair" for Riker at least twice, and look at the ships they offered him: USS Drake was a Wambundu Class, then USS Melbourne was either an Excelsior or a Nebula, depending on which version of Wolf 359 you prefer.
But, Riker was being groomed for greatness.
It seemed that USS Equinox was the first command for Captain Ransom. Voyager was definitely not Janeway's first command.
There is no canon proof that the Intrepid Class existed back at Wolf 359, but I'm not sure there's any canon proof it didn't: I'm not sure of the canonicity of the idea that Voyager was the second Intrepid Class ship.
I agree with those who feel that, given a background in tactics and the immediate post-Wolf 359 era, one of the small combat-oriented ships would be a good fit. I'm not sure how old the Steamrunner or Norway Classes are (IMO their NCC numbers suggest they pre-date Wolf 359, but many feel they were developed in response to it.)
Oh, and in case you care, I found this in my big list of who was where when: Graduating from SFA in 2355 puts him 1 year behind Ben Sisko (class of 2354). Riker, Geordi, and Chakotay were 2 years behind him (Class of 2357), so he just might have known any of them. Janeway did not enter SFA until after he graduated, and in 2370 she's about to take command of USS Voyager. That might help put his career in perspective.
Despite what the player may want, Starfleet is not going to give a brand new and untested captain command of a top of the line ship. Having a mentor means he will get a ship command, not the ship he wnats to command a subtile difference. In most cases I will stick to my earlier suggestion of a Miranda, but if you want him to have a ship with better potential, then an Excelsior would be okay. In either case, these would be ships just taken out of mothballs to replace the ships lost at Wolf 359. You would have no shortage of plot hooks as the ship's systems are brought back on line with all sorts of problems, the need to find a store of non-replicatable parts, the raw crew, yep good fun to be had by all.Quote:
Originally Posted by stule
Yeah, just go with the Cheyenne.
What're the other characters doing?