Apologies as im new to the forums but was curious if there were any plans for a fan made klingon netbook?thx
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Apologies as im new to the forums but was curious if there were any plans for a fan made klingon netbook?thx
I did bring this up once, but so far have received almost nothing in the way of submissions. The offer does, however, still stand.
Im still learning the rules but once i get the hang of it ill gladly help.I used to play using the ICON rules a long time back and im an avid trekie so im not totally new.Is there anything specific you would like me to work on to help complete it or are we starting from scratch?
Maybe having a joinable sub forum might work better than submissions? As for my own point of view, I am not interested enough in the Klingons to type up a large chunk of text to submit. But I might add a little to the discussion, and I am definitely interested in reading the result of it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
A source book can be made quite general game system wise, with the rule specific parts as appendixes. But that is a design question, and arguing over that would fit quite well on a "work space area" :)
I kind of like this idea, actually. I have a bunch of notes and design ideas, but nothing nearly ready.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt. Lundgren
I'll ask to see if this can be done.
Sounds like the rule system I am sometimes working on.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King
A Klingon sourcebook does also sound like a very good test case.
Sign me up please.Ill contribute with whatever needs to be done.
Just to let you guys know, I've received permission from S. John Ross to use his "Narrating in Klingon" chapter in this project, so that's one wheel that doesn't need to be reinvented.
Still waiting on word from Steve Kenson regarding his chapters, but I'm not in a rush; I only just asked the both of them about two hours ago, and was quite surprised (pleasantly so) to hear back from S. John so quickly.
Kenson's material is a little dated, though. And... well, boring. Starting a chapter on Klingon history with stages of technological development? A little unthematic.
Well, it was an untreated sample. By the time it would hav e made publication it might have been edited a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King
Guys. Whatever you do, dont make the same mistakes that the last Fan-Based Klingon group made... May I suggest that someone works as editor and that person produces a book plan and farms out work to the author assigned different chapters.
Otherwise you just end up with 7 or 8 different takes on Klingon History, the Warrior Culture, and a mish-mash of partial Character Generation rules, but with nothing to connect it all up.
Or worse. The last time this came up for ICON, the Klingon language fans wanted to write a language book, the Ford Klingon fans wanted their take over the TNG Klingon fans, and then worse of all some of the contributors started feeling like their work was good enough to sell (probably a good think the project imploded before that haopened).
Just be careful.
Some of the other ICON suffered from the same problems, though. Some (esp. the Way of D'era) seemed to opt for a rather dry, factually-phrased, this then this then this recounting. The total effect was that of a high school history textbook, instead of opting for the broader, atmospheric strokes and occasional flavourful specifics that help enliven a sourcebook. The TOS core, Among the Clans and (I think) the Price of Freedom were examples of gameable-feeling histories, where it seems the authors approached it as a story where the protagonist was the culture itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Gurden
I propose the first thread on the Klingon subforum should be for dibs-calling : PQuote:
Otherwise you just end up with 7 or 8 different takes on Klingon History, the Warrior Culture, and a mish-mash of partial Character Generation rules, but with nothing to connect it all up.
I should probably mention I have over 4000 words on a Klingon subject species I was writing up for an article series in BTFF.
And, should I get permission to use his stuff, it will be again. Not as much as TTK would probably like me to, but it will get edited. S. John's stuff is going to get edited, too, though not a lot; it's pretty tight. Mostly need to make sure ICON refs are changed to CODA refs, and that a couple of those refs aren't bogus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Gurden
Well, it's all gotta go through me at this stage, so I guess that would be me. Once we get the working group up and going and we kind of hammer out what the book should look like, I'll start trying to figure out what goes where. I know we don't need a chapter on "Narrating in Klingon." After that...who knows? As I've said before, I'm not necessarily a huge Klingon fan. I'm just offering up my services to the fans, and trying to shepherd this thing through.Quote:
Guys. Whatever you do, dont make the same mistakes that the last Fan-Based Klingon group made... May I suggest that someone works as editor and that person produces a book plan and farms out work to the author assigned different chapters.
It's gonna come down to what gets pitched at me. I've got S. John's chapter. I've got Owen's chargen stuff. I suspect Steve's gonna be okay with me using his material; we've worked together before on some Shadowrun stuff, so we've got a history.
But if this whole thing becomes vaporware...not gonna break my heart at all.
Owen told me some of this when he sent me the chargen stuff. Well, let's nip this in the bud right here, then.Quote:
Or worse. The last time this came up for ICON, the Klingon language fans wanted to write a language book, the Ford Klingon fans wanted their take over the TNG Klingon fans, and then worse of all some of the contributors started feeling like their work was good enough to sell (probably a good think the project imploded before that happened).
We are NOT trying to write a language book. And we are likewise NOT trying to write out TNG and later. Now I love Mike Ford's books as well as, if not better, than a lot of Klingon material out there. He was a friend, and he's not to be dismissed...but his stuff isn't canon (mostly; every now and then someone would slip something in, it seems).
We're not trying to rewrite history, at least beyond what's already been done in on-screen retcons. Humans first encounter Klingons in Oklahoma, the Vulcans have known about them for a good long time before that, and so on. The Ranger incident in 2218 was the first time the Federation, per se, had encountered them after a long period of withdrawal. That sorta thing.
As closely as possible, we're going to stick to on-screen canon...this includes Enterprise, all the films, even Voyager. If this is a problem, quit now. If you have a problem going through me, quit now. If you have a problem with your precious words getting edited and massaged to work with the precious words of some of the other contributors, quit now.
I'll have to go look at it later if I get permission to use it. But if I do get permission, I do not plan on reinventing the wheel; I'll use his material, though I'll do some editing on it to make it fit with the rest of what might come up.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King
I've received permission from Steve Kenson to include his material, so all told, we've got three chapters down. Once Magnus gets the Klingon Sourcebook forum set up, we can start to further hash things out and find out what we need and what we want.
Looking forward to it.:)
So how's the Ent material going to be integrated?Quote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
Haven't quite figured that one out yet, since I haven't given Steve's material a close read just yet. I'll get back to you on that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King
Thats a pretty good mission statement. keep it on file... ;pQuote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
Now, next question... Once (if) the completed stuff gets done, anyone want to work on an retro-fitted ICON version of the game material? :D
I might have a play with that team later on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Gurden
If the book was made couldnt we just intergrate both coda/icon stats? Shouldnt be that difficult to do..just a thought.Also im glad goodman doesnt want this to be made into some kind of "klingon language book".Im just looking for something i can use in multiple campaigns.With 3 chapters already done and goodman willing to do editing and layout,this should should be fun.Ill keep an eye on for the klingon sub-forum so we can get this thing done.
Mmm... I don't know, then. The Kenson write up drinks deep from the shallow pool of blandness (there's a Klingon Stalin, but no mention of the Klingon Trotskies or Lenins!). It's also TNG-centric, to the point where the political situation in TOS only gets 350 words, most of which is a rehash of what we already know, and then 150 words that were rendered erroneous via ENT. I can post my thoughts for comparison, but without the option of greatly expanding the material (the TOS and ENT eras need at least 2000 words each to compete), I'm not sure I'm into it. I might still like to finish the chapter on Klingon philosophy.
The Akos'ngan also sound a little too close to the M'rok (small nation of space-traveling spiders); folding them together might be a good idea. And the Xomin Brotherhood needs to choose either more or less Sontaran. Maybe throw in a Rutan analogue too, for flavour.
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, a whole chapter on the enemies of the Empire would be a cool idea. Starting with notes on Klingon interactions with, intentions toward, and views of the Federation, Romulans and Tholians, and moving on to full species/location/ship writeups for aliens like the Xomin.
I know CODA doesn't float your boat, Dan, but are you familiar with the world-building system in CODA? I wouldn't think moving from one to the other would be all that difficult, but I have noticed that there are a lot of planetary writeups in some of Kenson's material that I would need "translated" and I know I'm not all that conversant in ICON.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Gurden
I wouldn't mind that myself; throw in the Gorn, just for kicks.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King
Basically, anyone we can think of who would look cool in a fight with a Klingon.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
Unfortunately I never got around to downloading the ebooks... So I missed out... Was tempted but kept on putting it off and then it was too late.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
BUT. I would be happy to proof-read fluff text.
You wanna know a secret? The crunchy bits for the world-building system for CODA Worlds? The actual rules that augment the system already in the Narrator's Guide? They're available for free up on my site. The preview for Worlds was the first chapter, which happened to have all the crunchy bits that fit in with and expanded the rules in the NG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Gurden
And I will be glad for your assistance.Quote:
BUT. I would be happy to proof-read fluff text.
Cpt. Lundgren has opened up the Klingon sourcebook workspace forum, so if you're interested, go the Workspaces forum and find the instructions for joining up.
Actually, it's the second thread, but it's there.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King
Patrick;
I'm willing to get involved on writing parts of the Klingon Book. Maybe we could do it as a joint ICON/CODA book. I'm getting fairly heavily into doing Klingon Mythology and Cosmology.
Drop me an E-Mail.
I'll do that, Owen; I feel it's important that it be a joint system venture, all things considered. Thanks for speaking up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton
In the meantime, you might want to poke around the Klingon sourcebook forum, a fairly quiet place at the moment, to see what I'm thinking about in terms of organization and whatnot.
How goes the Klingon Sourcebook? I was just curious because I don't think I have permission to lurk on that forum. :)
Sure you do. Anybody does. Just go here. Click on "Fan Project Workspaces." Read the sticky, and then follow the instructions to join the "Klingon Sourcebook" forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign001
It's pretty dead in there, though, since no one's really sent me anything. I feel that's going to change, at least partially, but we'll see. To answer your first question, though: It's not going. There has to be participation first.
I've considered a short-term Klingon series for some time, but I've kept coming up against a huge barrier.
Lursa, B'Etor and Gowron. Oh, and Worf getting dumped on. Again.
Yep, the Klingon Civil War. And Worf. The thing is, nobody seems -- beyond the guy who has given us the IKS Gorkon -- to have strayed beyond this "boring power struggle" scenario.
A sourcebook is great -- seriously -- but there has to be some springboards for different series. Say, three episode seeds for Enterprise era, three for the TOS, three for TNG. The conflict of heart and blood -- of duty and honour -- that is what matters to a Klingon. How that is addressed in each "era" is worth looking at, surely?
May I humbly refer you to the Blood and Honor mini-campaign in BTFF-9, -10, and the downloads section?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuclear Fridge
Yes, there's political intrigue- but that dandy little three-parter (written by a minor acolyte with no talent and too much time on his hands) is a nice TOS/Movie era exploration of those very concepts.
I am currently working on a similar post-TNG/DS9 mini-campaign along the same lines, and have at least three more stand-alone Klingon adventures for TOS/TNG, and (if I retrofit it nicely), Enterprise.
I must say over all that S John Ross's (boy, I hope I got that right) Narrating In Klingon is an absolute must-read for anyone considering a truly Klingon adventure or campaign.
I'm also seriously considering adapting that article for my players- a sort of How-To-Think-Like-A-Klingon-Guide-for-The-Ridges-Deprived.
There is a lot of untapped potential in Klingon stories, and I hope that I might contribute in some small way to mining that vein with my upcoming work...
Thank you, selek. I'll go take a look.
I was only reminded of my attempts to 'go Klingon' when I unpacked my Decipher CCG sets the other days -- and found the Delta Quadrant Klingon deck I'd put together. Now that would be a blast: the crew of a Klingon ship, stranded in the DQ like Voyager or Equinox.
The Kazon sects, posturing and sounding off about how tough they are? Put them to the bat'leth!
The Hirogen, big game hunters? Show them it's a bad idea to stalk a son or daughter of Qo'noS!
Never got into the CCG aspect of the game, but the decks do come in handy for props and presentations, and of course, for brain storming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuclear Fridge
Would've made for an almighty short series. A typical Klingon crew (in my opinion) would've 1) fought the Kazon to the death for possession of the Caretaker's Array, 2) used the Array to get home and used timed scuttling charges to blow it up afterward, or 3) all of the above.Quote:
Now that would be a blast: the crew of a Klingon ship, stranded in the DQ like Voyager or Equinox.
Such a crew would've had a hard time developing the empathy and maternal attitude Janeways displayed towards the Ocampa (in fact, sneering contempt for their passivity and pacifivism would be a far more likely reaction from a typical Klingon).
Depending upon how canny and clever the Klingons were, this would've been a rout- what was the line from Conan?Quote:
The Kazon sects, posturing and sounding off about how tough they are? Put them to the bat'leth!
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."
The Kazon would learn soon enough to give the Klingons wide berth.
This one is a little different. I'm not sure how quickly the Klingon mindset would adapt toward dealing with the Hirogen....Quote:
The Hirogen, big game hunters? Show them it's a bad idea to stalk a son or daughter of Qo'noS!
....though I'm quite certain that their approach (once they'd figured out what was going on) wouldn't be terribly different from Arnie's. And besides disruptors are much easier to pack around than 20mm gatling guns.
Of course, once they had to track through Borg space, all bets would be off....
Home? Pah! What about the glory of carving an empire out of these squalid sects?Quote:
Originally Posted by selek
The thought crossed my mind as well....but I don't think it's all that likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King
First and foremost, any honorable Klingon is going to be thinking as much about his oaths to home, House, and Empire as he will be about carving out a niche for himself.
Second, a single Klingon vessel (even a Negh'Var) would have too few persons and resources to affect that drastic a change on the overall balance of power- especially in the long run.
Any such empire would- of necessity- depend upon coopting and incorporating the locals, and would rapidly spin out of the control of the few Klingons.
And besides- even if they were successful, what songs would be sung about their glorious deeds and who would hear them?
No.
I'm convinced that a Klingon vessel stranded in the Delta Quadrant would be just as obsessed with getting home as was Voyager, Equinox, or anybody else.
Of course, the truly frightening prospect in all of this is that (assuming they didn't kill him out of hand), the Klingons might actually LIKE Neelix's kooking.
Yeah, but how many Klingons are actually honourable?Quote:
Originally Posted by selek
If TNG and DS9 taught us anything, one or two.
Transporters, replicators, the Array, and the dream of a glorious death!Quote:
Second, a single Klingon vessel (even a Negh'Var) would have too few persons and resources to affect that drastic a change on the overall balance of power- especially in the long run.
That's why it's fun!Quote:
Any such empire would- of necessity- depend upon coopting and incorporating the locals, and would rapidly spin out of the control of the few Klingons.
They'd write their own! That's half the glory.Quote:
And besides- even if they were successful, what songs would be sung about their glorious deeds and who would hear them?