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No, not Lionel Ritchie's old band. The military rank. As in, what happened to all the commodores? Why aren't they listed as a rank in any of the LUGTrek stuff?
I'm trying to think of if we've seen any Coms. in the TNG/DS9/VGR era. I know we saw plenty of them in TOS (Decker was a Commodore. "Don't you think I know that??"). Has the rank officially been eliminated? Seems odd to go directly from Captain to Admiral.
Anyway, just curious.
Chris
This one's been covered before, I think...in short, Starfleet went the same way as the US Navy. The Rank of Commodore was abandoned in the US Navy recently, in favour of Rear Admiral (Lower Half) and Rear Admiral (Upper Half)...as found in the TNG Player's Guide. So Starfleet followed suit.
In my campaign, Rear Admiral (Upper Half) will be simply Rear Admiral, while Rear Admiral (Lower Half) will revert to Commodore...it sits better with me.
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"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
- The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams (dec.)
No Commodores appear after TOS, suggesting that they have indeed been retired. In both LUGTrek and in the conventional US Navy, the rank of Commodore was replaced with Rear Admiral, Lower Half. (Although it was recently pointed out to me that there is a reference to Commodore in the TNG Tech Manual, a guide that does hold some level of canon status depending who you ask at Paramount.)
This was reflected in the write-ups I did in “The Players’ Guide” where the ranks used in LUGTrek are:
Captain
Rear Admiral, Lower Half (formerly Commodore)
Rear Admiral
Vice Admiral
Admiral
Fleet Admiral
(I don’t have any of my books with me, so this is from memory – cut me some slack!) http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif
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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_don.gif
The title of commodore is not gone it is now an honoray title given to senior Captians in charge of destroyer squadrons. Like the Commadore I worked for in DESRON 28.
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You don't have to like you just have to do it .
Richard Marcinko
I don't know about ya'll, but I wouldn't like to be introduced as "Rear Admiral, lower half, Smith."
"Commodore Smith" sounds a lot better.
Commodores were like super or senior Captains, they got command of things too big or important for captains, but too small for admirals. And why should Starfleet abandon the rank if the U.S. Navy did it way back in the 20th century?
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"Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!"
Antonsb214, RA(LH) aren't introduced in that manner -- they are introduced as "Admiral." This is much the same way as a Lt. j.g. being addressed as "Lieutenant" not "Lieutenant, Junior Grade" or Lt. Cmdrs. being informally addressed as "Commander."
There is a distinction between one's grade and how they are addressed.
BTW, I agree with you -- there's nothing that says you have to use RA (LH) in your game in place of Commodore or that Starfleet necessarily abandoned it because the Navy did. I am, however, trying to provide some insight as to the path we took with LUGTrek.
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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_don.gif
[This message has been edited by Don (edited 06-05-2001).]
Admirals are often introcuded by their command. For instance, enter VADM Ersha of 4th Fleet (Standing) based out of Andor:
Boatswain: 4th Fleet on deck!
But usually, if you're lucky, you get to address them by their first name...admiral.
Excuse me but wasn't it a Commodore that flew his shuttle into the planet killer after losing his crew in TOS? (The episode name escapes me)Quote:
Originally posted by Don:
No Commodores appear after TOS
Yup. Commodore Matt Decker of the Constellation in the TOS episode, "The Doomsday Machine."
Your point? http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif (I specifically said no Commodores appear "after TOS.") http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif
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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_don.gif
That was Commodore Matt Decker (father of Captain Will Decker, ST:TMP). He flew a suicide mission into the maw of "The Doomsday Machine" (TOS).
But as Don said, there have been no mention or appearance of any recent Commodore after TOS.
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Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...
[This message has been edited by REG (edited 06-06-2001).]
Sorry, I misread again.
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"Being afraid all of the time of forgetting somebody's name. Not...not knowing what to do with your hands...I mean, I am the guy who writes down things to remember to say when there's a party. And then when he finally gets there, he winds up alone in the corner trying to look comfortable examining a potted plant."
-Lieutentant Reginald Barclay
During the massive naval expansion of the Second World War, the Navy Department worried that the appointment of more flag officers would create a glut of admirals after the war. At the same time, it was realized that some captains were holding commands of higher responsibility, and needed to be recognized. Admiral King proposed bringing back the old rank of commodore for these officers. President Roosevelt agreed, though he stipulated that this rank be restricted to line officers. The Navy's one-star officer reappeared in April 1943. In practice, staff corps officers could also become commodores. By VJ Day, there were over one hundred commodores in service. Very few of the wartime commodores were promoted to rear admiral. Promotions to commodore ended in 1947, and all had left the navy by 1950.
But the one-star rank appeared again in 1982, with the odd title of "Commodore Admiral." The rank became simply "Commodore" the next year, and went back to rear admiral (lower half) in 1985!
And who is to say that the rank of commodore might not make a come back in the Star Trek universe.
The rank of Commodore never went away in many other navies, the Royal Navy and the Canadian Armed Forces (Sea Element) included.
I like the term Commodore, and since no one-pip flag officer has appeared in TNG-era Trek and been addressed as Admiral (or anything else), I feel justified in continuing its use in my game. Not, of course, that I need justification, but I do like to keep a measure of consistency with canon.
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But what rank insignias does then have the Rear Admiral lower half. I mean Fleet Admiral has 5 pips, Admiral 4, Vice Admiral 3, Rear Admiral upper half 2 and yeas I always thought Rear Admiral has 1.
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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI
www.farrealms.de
Well, I tend to use the rank of Commodore, Fleet Captain & Rear Admiral (Lower Half), Rear Admiral (Upper Half), etc in my games.
Fleet Captain: O7, Line Rank. Someone in charge of a Squadron or a Small Fleet. Uses Five Pips without a border
Commodore: O7, Staff Rank. Someone who has risen to this rank is a Staff Officer, not a line officer & will run something like Ship Yards. Hollow Pip with a Border
Grand Admiral: O13, Line Rank. The one person totally in charge of Starfleet & Starfleet Marines. Answers only to the President. Please note there is only one Grand Admiral at a time. Single Star.
O0 Midshipman One Hollow Pip
O1 Ensign One Solid Pip
O2 Lt. (JG) One Solid Pip & one Hollow Pip
O3 Lt. (SG) Two Solid Pips
O4 Lt. Commander Two Solid Pips & one Hollow Pip
O5 Commander Three Solid Pips
O6 Captain Four Solid Pips
O7L Fleet Captain (Line) Five Solid Pips
O7S Commodore (Staff) Hollow Pip in a Border
O8 Rear Admiral (Lower Half) One Solid Pip in a Border
O9 Rear Admiral (Upper Half) Two Solid Pips in a Border
O10 Vice Admrial Three Solid Pips in a Border
O11 Admiral Four Solid Pips in a Border
O12 Fleet Admiral Five Solid Pips in a Border
O13 Grand Admiral Single Star
Now this is how I do it. It cost 11 points to be promoted to Fleet Captain or Commodore & 30 Points to be promoted to Grand Admiral.
~LL
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"Resistance is futile...say baby that is a nice tight skirt you have on." --President Clinton of Borg.
I would have to agree.
My choice would be Fleet Cpt 5 pips in line with the 'line' ranks.
And Commordore being the Rear Admiral (lower half) which sounds goofy.
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SIRSIG :D
AKA: SirPostalot
AKA: The MapMaker
AKA: The Trek Cartographer
AKA:...Well I could keep going forever ;)
Chris man, that is like my second favorite TOS quote ever!Quote:
Originally posted by ctatro:
Decker was a Commodore. "Don't you think I know that??"
My number one being "I order you! Let me go!"
But I digress http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif
I don't care what TNG says, I use Commodores in my game as I think there are just too many dang Admirals around.
I also use Fleet Captain as a very noble honorific from Starfleet to a truely exceptional leader. Sisko would have got this had he not ascended or whatever.
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Aslan Collas
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