"Submergence" - story idea, TOS or TNG eras

The world is 90% water, though it was once 60% water, due to adverse climate change 400 years before the sea level rose and the populace was forced to the worlds mountain ranges. The planets population was reduced from 12 Billion to the current 4 million.
20 years ago the worlds government pressured by a slowly growing population and lack of suitable farm land started a program to lower the water level through the creation of gigantic underground water aquifers spread over the planet's Sub-surface, essentially moving the water underground. Though the world has not joined the Federation, it has been asking for over 70 years, it asked for technical assistance to do this.
The Federation accepted the request and for 10 years a Federation scientific research team has been working to help achieve the worlds goals. But not all the worlds citizens support this goal nor the fact of Federation assistance on planet or the goal of joining the Federation.
Now with the time of the first aquifer going on line near the end of the month the government is a afraid of sabotage in an effort to stop it. No longer completely trusting their own security force the government has asked for a Starfleet to be dispatch to ensure all goes well.

Bluecoat, I am intrigued by your premise, and I'd like to offer some feedback and questions to consider:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluecoat1861

The world is 90% water, though it was once 60% water, due to adverse climate change 400 years before the sea level rose and the populace was forced to the worlds mountain ranges. The planets population was reduced from 12 Billion to the current 4 million.

---

Reduced how, precisely? Were they killed off through catastrophic flooding? Eliminated ala Kodos the Executioner? Bred out through age and attrition?

The manner of deaths (and how the government responded) will have a bearing on the following paragraph: given the extraordinary measures the government has already imposed (more on that later), why wouldn't they have enacted draconian population control measures? Seems like they'd have a better return-on-investment controlling the human factor (at least temporarily).

Quote:

---

20 years ago the worlds government pressured by a slowly growing population and lack of suitable farm land started a program to lower the water level through the creation of gigantic underground water aquifers spread over the planet's Sub-surface, essentially moving the water underground.

---

Again, one has to ask "Why that approach?" Why not pursue undersea habitats (ala SeaquestDSV) or floating/terraced cities? Why not orbital or even underground habitats?

Again, it seems like there would be easier fixes in both the long and short-term that would show meaningful results soomer.

Quote:

---

Though the world has not joined the Federation, it has been asking for over 70 years, it asked for technical assistance to do this.

---

Why were they denied membership over a seven decade period?

The reason would have to be either fundamental and deeply objectionable to Federation sensibilities, or there would have to be some outside considerations.

Whatever the reason, it will affect how the heroes treat the locals and how they go about their mission.

Quote:

---

The Federation accepted the request and for 10 years a Federation scientific research team has been working to help achieve the worlds goals. But not all the worlds citizens support this goal nor the fact of Federation assistance on planet or the goal of joining the Federation.

---

This dissident angle has promise; if the divide is wide enough, it might well be the reason why the world has not been accepted for membership. On the other hand, the same division might well complicate (and limit) the Federation's scientific support.

Quote:

---

Now with the time of the first aquifer going on line near the end of the month the government is a afraid of sabotage in an effort to stop it. No longer completely trusting their own security force the government has asked for a Starfleet to be dispatch to ensure all goes well.

---

This element is VERY problematic. It is unquestionably meddling in local internal affairs, which is arguably a Prime Directive violation.

Two tenets of Star Trek canon are that local planetary affairs are (as a rule) out of Starfleet's jurisdiction and the Starfleet personnel are subject to local law and jurisdiction. This would be even more true for a non-member world.

I don't raise these questions to discourage you: the idea is intriguing and none of these issues are insurmountable, but you'll want to at least consider the answers in order to present a story that is internally consistent when your players raise them.

The TNG episodes "The Hunted", "Attached", and "The High Ground" would all be good episodes to review before putting your notes on paper, as would the TOS novel "Shadows on the Sun".

One angle I'd consider is that the past several governments have been unstable (repeated coups and insurrections) and that the existing regime consolidated power through dubious means (kinda like the current situation in Egypt).

Another possibility is that the world is close to a major rival power (the Klingons or the Romulans) who are wary of too much Federation interference on a strategically located world. This also has the advantage of introducing off-world meddling to justify whatever meddling the heroes wind up doing (ala TOS "A Private Little War")...

Is this world subject to the prime directive? a former colony, presently independent, of a member world? Would there be objections from the Federation Council about helping a planet's government implement an objective which maybe imposed internally, possibly by force (even if it's defensive)?
The Federation doesn't strike me as a very, we're doing it for your own good, type organization that is unless we're talking about a Federation with a Janeway mindset.

"Bluecoat, I am intrigued by your premise, and I'd like to offer some feedback and questions to consider:"

Fire away, I like it when another 'old' timer fires the questions :)

"Reduced how, precisely? Were they killed off through catastrophic flooding? Eliminated ala Kodos the Executioner? Bred out through age and attrition?"

A combination of all these the worlds oceans where always low anyway never more then 1,000 or 2,000 feet deep so the effects of the change where quick to take hold. as the society was pushed inland overcrowding, war over the few resources and epidemics ran rampant. When they gained warp power people left en mass.

The manner of deaths (and how the government responded) will have a bearing on the following paragraph: given the extraordinary measures the government has already imposed (more on that later), why wouldn't they have enacted draconian population control measures? Seems like they'd have a better return-on-investment controlling the human factor (at least temporarily).

"Again, one has to ask "Why that approach?" Why not pursue undersea habitats (ala SeaquestDSV) or floating/terraced cities? Why not orbital or even underground habitats?"

Ok this is from a human view but people like being in free air with the sun shaning and waves crashing on beaches sand between the toes on Terra firm ma they might have undersea habitats heck that might be where the opposition is coming from.

"Again, it seems like there would be easier fixes in both the long and short-term that would show meaningful results soomer. "

thats were he Doah part of this idea lives LOL!

"Why were they denied membership over a seven decade period?"

They have been slow in moving to the level for membership its not the federation that's causing the long effort, but the worlds own conservative nature.

Try this instead:

Instead of the sabotage originating among the surface population (a population which is implied to be technologically unsophisticated or construction-resource poor anyway, hence the Federation assistance) it comes from an undersea population threatened by the dewaterfication project. They are the descendants of those who, 400 years ago, were genetically modified to live comfortably in the planet's new oceanic environment. The existence of the undersea civilisation is a secret the surface-dwellers are actively trying to obscure from the Federation, so it would make sense for the Crew to be members of the scientific advisory team instead of security.

I also suggest making the dewaterfication project way bigger and more cinematic in scale, like a surface-to-ice-asteroid mass transporter or a terraforming project to drop the planetary temperature into a new ice age (presumably what they had before). That would make the PCs potentially unknowing accessories to genocide.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

Try this instead:

Instead of the sabotage originating among the surface population (a population which is implied to be technologically unsophisticated or construction-resource poor anyway, hence the Federation assistance) it comes from an undersea population threatened by the dewaterfication project. They are the descendants of those who, 400 years ago, were genetically modified to live comfortably in the planet's new oceanic environment. The existence of the undersea civilisation is a secret the surface-dwellers are actively trying to obscure from the Federation, so it would make sense for the Crew to be members of the scientific advisory team instead of security.

I also suggest making the dewaterfication project way bigger and more cinematic in scale, like a surface-to-ice-asteroid mass transporter or a terraforming project to drop the planetary temperature into a new ice age (presumably what they had before). That would make the PCs potentially unknowing accessories to genocide.

---

We need a "like" button.

Well done, TDK!

Agreed!!!

Nifty scenario. TDK's modifications are great.

Here's some suggestions regarding events to throw at the players:

• The head of the Federation technical assistance team is an arrogant loudmouth in the mold of, uh, pretty much every civilian scientist we see on Star Trek. You could also make them a Federation species you feel like introducing to the players (Tellarites, Andorians or Tiburonians in TOS; Zakdorn, Benzite or something exotic like Legarans or Medusans in TNG) or just a human or Vulcan who's full of themselves and acting like a petty tyrant. Optionally, this project head could be hoping this current assignment is a vindication of an idea that failed elsewhere.

• The science team or the Crew's ship includes a member of an aquatic species, or at least a species which looks at the ocean as a good thing instead of a civilisation-destroying threat like the surface-dwelling aliens do. This would serve to establishes that the surface-dwellers have a cultural prohibition about going in the water or even spending some time on or around it (to avoid interacting with the water-dwellers.)

• There's some sort of technical problem with the dewaterfication project which is the initial challenge to distract your players with; maybe containing the temperature-changes or keeping the ocean-to-orbit transfer system from dumping stuff all over the surface via sudden deorbiting is hard.

• A misfire or other problem with an early test of the system leads the crew to either crash, emergency-transport or need to evacuate a part of a surface-dweller slum, wherein they can observe planetary police enforcing bans on interaction with the ocean-dwellers. If there are resource shortages, there may be an ocean-dwelling equivalent of the Red Cross that tries to deliver food and supplies to poor and oppressed surface-dwellers.

•*If your players are Lovecraft fans, you can have surface-ocean hybrid children being hidden by their surface-parents from the security forces.

This is a very flexible basis for an episode. TDK had great ideas of course.

Another thought that I had was that instead of the planet govt becoming concerned with terrorism/sabotage and asking for Starfleet security support, Starfleet becomes concerned about the chance of insurrection breaking out and endangering their scientific assistance team, so they send the starship to protect the team (and nothing else, as prime directive prohibits involvement in internal politics). Now when insurrection breaks out the players need to be concerned with protecting the Federation scientists/citizens, not affecting the outcome of the political struggle, and standing by while people die and atrocities are committed because the prime directive prohibits interference. Or, if the players can't restrain themselves, enjoy the rationale they fabricate to justify their actions to SFC. Perhaps they will say that since the creation of aquifers would not be possible without the Federation involvement, the current situation is not a natural development of internal affairs but a crisis created by the Federation and thus not a candidate for PD protections.

The idea of the underwater dwellers I liked also. It made me think of the Doctor Who (Jon Pertwee) story-line "The Sea Devils".

The Prime Directive obviously does not apply if Starfleet is allowed to be involved in the first place. There may be other directives applicable, including just plain "It's orders", but in TNG they interpreted the PD way too liberally when the Romulans and Klingons could claim PD protection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton

The Prime Directive obviously does not apply if Starfleet is allowed to be involved in the first place. There may be other directives applicable, including just plain "It's orders", but in TNG they interpreted the PD way too liberally when the Romulans and Klingons could claim PD protection.

---

Well, interfering in internal Klingon affairs is a violation of the PD, as to act otherwise would take the slippery slope down towards the UFP being a imperial power. But just talking to them isn't a problem, because the Klingons are on par technologically with the Federation (and probably engage in trade agreements and espionage against the UFP to make sure of that).

So in this story, they can render assistance as asked (hence the episode hook), but can't directly oppose the actions of the planetary security force without it being a PD violation.

General Order Number One, the core of the Prime Directive, forbids Starfleet to interfere with PRE-WARP civilisations. The Klingons are a major space-faring power and are not covered by the Prime Directive. If there is another Non-Interference Directive regarding other major powers, the Klingons would be covered by that, but NOT by the Prime Directive, in any way, shape or form. Period. Same with the Romulans, the Cardassiansand the Dominion.

The Mintakans and the Malcorians are covered by the PD, but not powers like the Ferengi.

TNG and DS9 make it fairly clear that the PD is not limited to pre-warp cultures.

• In 'Redemption' Picard says to Worf, regarding using his access to Starfleet records about the Khitomer Massacre:

PICARD
You are using your position as a Starfleet officer to affect political change on your planet... there could not be a worse compromise of our fundamental principles...


While he doesn't mention the Prime Directive by name, the language is unambiguous about how central the notion of non-interference is to Starfleet ethics.

Similarly, despite the Federation's clear interest in making sure a Federation-friendly government is installed in Qo'noS, Shanthi explicitly says that no direct interference in the civil war can be allowed. The blockade that does happen is performed in reaction to other interference, not the actions of Klingon political actors.

• In 'The Perfect Mate,' Picard explicitly refers to the Prime Directive when explaining his reasons for not prosecuting the Kriosians for trafficking in sentients:

PICARD
(angry now, with frustration and sarcasm)
By all means, we should throw the Prime Directive to the wind... detain her against her will... destroy any chance these worlds have for peace... interfere with their society, with their customs...

• In 'Emissary,' regarding Bajoran admission to the Federation:

SISKO
(with an attitude)
Sounds like they're not ready.

Picard turns and looks at him sharply.

PICARD
Your job is to do everything short of violating the Prime Directive to make sure they are.


Given that there were no pre-warp cultures being referred to, the Directive therefore would be given as applying to the relationship between the Federation and Bajor.

• O'Brien's interference in the Tosk hunt was described as a violation of the Prime Directive:

O'BRIEN
(reacts)
But sir, Tosk is a living, intelligent being...

SISKO
This is their custom, Chief... under the prime directive, we have no right to interfere...

And later:

SISKO
(continuing)
You ignored your duty to Starfleet... you took off your combadge so you could ignore me... you even ignored the Prime Directive by interfering in their damned hunt.


The Hunters/Tosk are clearly from a more technically advanced civilization than the Federation.

TNG and DS9 were absolutely wrong and terribly inconsistent. Writers for those two shows vaccillated between varoius different interpretations of the PD. TOS was consistent and reasonabl;y explicit.

By the TOS wording of the PD, even identifying the ship and the Federation to PD-protected species would have violated the PD, but both Picard and Sisko identified themselves to Klingons and Romulans all the time. Surely shooting at them would be interference. TNG even stated that the PD doesn't apply to civilians, whereas in TOS it most certainly did. After the egregious errors in TNG (IMNSHO the poorest of the Trek shows) people still have the temerity to pick on Voyager and Enterprise, which were both head-and-shoulders above the level of TNG. Picard was an ivory-tower intellectual with no idea how the real world works... TNG was about "timidly creeping where everyone has gone brfore".

The Federation didn't even exist until, what, 'Devil in the Dark'? The consistency of TOS is something only visible in hindsight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton

By the TOS wording of the PD, even identifying the ship and the Federation to PD-protected species would have violated the PD, but both Picard and Sisko identified themselves to Klingons and Romulans all the time. Surely shooting at them would be interference.

---

That's because the Klingons and the Romulans were cultures capable of interacting with the Federation on equal footing. A pre-contact, not-warp-capable species is not. Same with the restrictions on Federation usage of the cloaking device—a limitation that fits perfectly well with the Federation's purpose as a non-aggressive polity based around mutual consent instead of an imperialistic power.

Quote:

---

TNG even stated that the PD doesn't apply to civilians, whereas in TOS it most certainly did.

---

The Angelites were already aware of alien civilisations (probably due to previous cultural contamination) and thus covered under the grandfather clause that covered Neural. We can only look at these two examples and derive the idea that allowed contact for grandfathered worlds depends on their level of technical knowledge and previous awareness.

For counter-example, look at the researchers on Mintaka III—they're civilians, yet even more egregiously concerned about lack of contact than with the Neuralites.

Quote:

---

After the egregious errors in TNG (IMNSHO the poorest of the Trek shows) people still have the temerity to pick on Voyager and Enterprise, which were both head-and-shoulders above the level of TNG.

---

Putting aside that they were written by the same people, VOY continues TNG and DS9's interpretation of the PD applying as a general principle of non-aggression and non-interference even with postwarp cultures. (see 'Caretaker,' 'Thirty Days.')

A genear principle of non-interference and non-aggression is not the same as the PD. the PD is a specific order. Like I said, there are other restrictions, not part of the PD.

The rule against cloaks is one such example - the Treaty of Algeron - a specific non-PD ruling.

I'm not saying there were/are no such limitations, just that calling them the PD is wrong. It's like giving a speeding ticket for running a red light.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton

A genear principle of non-interference and non-aggression is not the same as the PD. the PD is a specific order. Like I said, there are other restrictions, not part of the PD.

The rule against cloaks is one such example - the Treaty of Algeron - a specific non-PD ruling.

I'm not saying there were/are no such limitations, just that calling them the PD is wrong. It's like giving a speeding ticket for running a red light.

---

One may also run a red light while speeding.

Yes, but then you'd be liable to get both tickets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

One may also run a red light while speeding.

---

Then one merely needs to go faster. With sufficient velocity the red light will appear green due to significant blue-shift. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton

TNG was about "timidly creeping where everyone has gone b(e)fore".

---

...Only after having a terribly earnest four-hour conference in the observation lounge first!:rolleyes: Angry face-to-face in the Ready Room as an optional "exciting bit".

I'm wholly in agreement with you on the TNG 'take' on the PD, Owen. One week, it was all "let's sit on our hands and agonize while a whole race dies", the next it was "smite them with the phaser banks like a judgement from on high!!" The PD got folded, twisted, and manipulated by the writers to suit the needs of the episode du jour.:mad:

Patterns of Force and Bread and Circuses have long been my blueprint for the PD in games I've run. A pre-warp culture that can't handle the idea of "others" from the far side of the sky qualifies for the PD. A collection of drug-peddling parasites that manipulates the people of a neighbouring world (TNG's truly dreadful, preachy, Symbiosis) does not. Especially when said drug-peddlers know enough about the Federation and its laws to throw the PD into Picard's face and then smugly expect him to roll over for them.

This thread makes me want to run a pre-2218 first contact campaign and follow a number of cultures through developments after meeting an aggressively meddling Federation crew—i.e. PCs.