Has anyone tried to quantify Voth technology/vessels?

as the title suggests, has anyone here tried to quantify Voth technology/vessels as per Space Dock?

I know they utilize phasing cloaks (vessels and personal), perfected Transwarp, have advanced LR senors(with a 90 LY range), utilize Omega Particles as a power source (as shown by the Voth harvesting Omega particles from the Solanae Dyson Sphere), energy weapons are based on anti-proton technology, utilize Aceton Drones, have chroniton/transphasic torpedo technology, have advance transporter technology (their City Ship transported Voyager and her crew inside their vessel), and use Energy Dampening fields (most likely Duonetic fields)

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Solanae_Dyson_Sphere

I found this ship while researching the Voth through wiki
Voth Fortress Ship (134.5km long), makes their city ships look small.
http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/...tress_Ship.jpg

The problem is that you're going to start saying to yourself, "65 million years is a long time."

Not that this has come up in a game or anything, but I've consoled myself with the idea that the Voth, in their hidebound, herd-species ways, do not confront events per se, but rather move around them four-dimensionally. They use their transwarp drives to skip over centuries of invasion or crisis, dropping out of their accelerated subspace domain when polities of younger, hot-headed, carnivorous species have collapsed or fragmented (like the Hirogen). I mean, their makeup design is a Silurian reference, might as well make the rest of them fit. So when the Borg showed up a hundred thousand years ago, most city-ships left for the future of Borg quiescence, whenever that'll be.

actually from what I have been reading the Voth really start to exert themselves later in Federation history (25th century and beyond, mostly non-canon plot line, tying in story/plot lines from video games, books and such) especially concerning the Solanae Dyson Sphere.

this ship overview mentions what I am saying
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel_class

and here a story plot that has the Voth returned to Earth to lay claim again
http://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInst...your_doorstep/

here is an overview of the Fortress Ship
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Voth_Fortress_Ship

I would put forward the write up of the Citadel-class would be close to what one would expect to see from a Voth City ship (though their ability to transport an entire vessel isn't reflected.)
A transporter as per Spacedock that can transport 700000mt (Voyagers approximate weight) would be 3521 su (and that is based on a cargo transporter, which would have to be modified to handle transporting life forms...)

Nah, the city ship just bilocates the space surrounding Voyager inside and outside itself. (That way they can just shunt any energy from an exploding ship by dropping the bilocation, avoiding the "You just beamed in a bomb!" trick.)

I particularly liked that as soon as the City Ship transported Voyager they were subjected to a energy dampening field, really showed the technology gap between the two.

One point I could never reconcile with the Voth was the fact that after something like 65 million years of evolution they never evolved beyond their physical forms (as in eventually evolving into energy beings, like we saw with so many other races)

Maybe most of them did; that might be one of the reasons that the city-ship is so culturally conservative, to avoid whatever psionic abilities which power that metamorphosis from developing.

from what I can gather from several sources the Voth are a thriving Galactic power that has massive influence in the Delta quadrant. I would not be surprised if they numbered in the trillions. There has been no suggestion of them transcending their physical form. Of all the Star Trek races I find the Voth one of the most intriguing, I wish there had been more episodes showcasing them.

On a similar note, I have a Silurian (dinosaur hominid from Dr. Who) in my DTI H.Beam Piper campaign as a Flight Control Officer (a Scout/Helmsman on detached duty to DTI). She's based on the two-eyed variant, like Madame Vastra, the Silurian "Veiled Detective" in London in the 1890's. Although, the Silurians in my campaign are not actually from Earth, I suspect they'd get along well with the Voth, maybe changing their opinion on the Distant Origins Theory. Otherwise, I don't see the scenario with the Voth arriving at Earth happening for many decades, perhaps centuries, given their vehement rejection of the Theory and their basic cultural conservatism.

yeah they seemed to dismiss Distant Origin very quickly. I have seen some plot lines with the Voth returning (mentioned in a previous post in this thread) to Earth, interesting plots but not very good for humanity in most cases.
You would think with all their technology Distant Origin would be easy to verify for the Voth. I understand how politics can play in this sort of thing, but from the impression I got from Gegen, who was analytic and logical, one would think that the Voth would be open to a scientifically sound based hypothesis.

Sounds about as likely as Bible-Belters accepting Evolution - almost an exact parallel, I think. No matter how intelligent, some people (and dinosaurs) are just so hide-bound they can't see the evidence clearly.

I believe the writers were showcasing exactly that as Doctrine was the Voth religion

as per wiki

Quote:

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Voth Doctrine (simply called Doctrine by the Voth) was the primary religious text of the Voth.

According to Doctrine, the Voth were the first species to evolve in their part of the galaxy and saurian species such as themselves are superior. Mammalian species such as Humans are looked down upon as a result.

Voth Doctrine dictated that because the Voth were the first to evolve in their part of the galaxy, they have the right to rule it. Thus, the notion that Voth evolved elsewhere, as proposed in the Distant Origin Theory, was considered heresy. (VOY: "Distant Origin")

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You can't reason with religious dogma as almost all religious nonsense is faith based, believing without the need for evidence. As an atheist I can relate.

If the Voth were only in one episode, what are the other sources that you're concerned about?

The irony of Braga trying to use Star Trek for that particularly allegory is pretty hilarious. This is a show where evolution is clearly both the result of intelligent design by ancient astronauts and teleologically driven to produce glowing space-angel-guys like Q or John Doe (or, alternately, giant salamanders : P). Braga also positively cites Freud in "Phantasms" for bonus points.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WaveMan

You can't reason with religious dogma as almost all religious nonsense is faith based, believing without the need for evidence. As an atheist I can relate.

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Moderator hat on...
You're using some pretty slanted language. Not all religious belief is dogma (just as not all dogma is religious - many statements of atheism are equally dogmatic). Not all religious statements are nonsense, either. Believing in something without the need for evidence is not a problem, it's when a belief is held in opposition to verifiable evidence. Let's not take this into either religiously- or politically-based soapbox statements.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

If the Voth were only in one episode, what are the other sources that you're concerned about?

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there's are other sources, books, video games and RPG's that adds to the whole thing. As there are no more "true to form" (JJ has his own take on it) one has to turn to these other sources for stories.

As far as my views and statements on religion I will leave it at what I have posted and wont continue, and will leave the religious talk out of my posts from now on.:cool:

Thanks, Waveman. As you can guess, it's a hot-button topic, but as long as we keep it to discussion of the shows and games, we can all breathe a little easier. Politics is much the same. There used to be an old saying about things best not discussed at the dinner table. the first one was Sen - guess what the other two were? Oh well, we still have the netbook I edited "Painted Ladies of the Stars" (original author unknown) for the sex part of it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WaveMan

there's are other sources, books, video games and RPG's that adds to the whole thing. As there are no more "true to form" (JJ has his own take on it) one has to turn to these other sources for stories.

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It's just that all these other formats have their own individual constraints, so one shouldn't necessarily be slavish or even particularly forgiving of alternate-format material when digesting it for use at the RPG table. The computer games, for example—STO included—are a constant treadmill of finding people to shoot at, because they don't have the time, budget or mandate to figure out a more appropriate, Treklike way of presenting challenges in the game. (Take LA Noire's abysmal failure as an investigative game—it's hard to do while maintaining reasonable width of content or selling it to the legions of people who just want Another Damn GTA.) So while STO may be giving the Voth fleets of mook starships and legions of mook soldiers to shoot at, an RPG doesn't need that, and a Trek RPG shouldn't have that.

I totally agree TTK, but this is what we are left with if one want's to continue to read/watch/play Star Trek.

Maybe so, but we have the right to cherry-pick what we like and what suits our sensibilities, and reject the drivel out-of-hand. Surely our imaginations are better than what a bunch of corporate drones seeking to please the great unwashed lowest common denominator. I've stolen a few nice designs from STO, like the Stargazer class, but was forced to come up with my own stats due to STO's infatuation with one-size-fits-all battlewagons. I likewaise reject a lot of fannish stuff like the Maquis Forces International stuff. There's enough good stuff out there we can afford to only choose the best and shun that which does not meet standards - standards we must implement ourselves as no one else can or will. Everyone of us will therefore have slightly different standards, and that's not a particularly bad thing, so long as we identify where it is we're coming from, and recognise other peoples' rights to their own standards. I personally like to keep my base line close to canon, but your mileage may vary Heck, TTK and I are both from Canada, so we use kilometres instead anyway. ;)

I from Australia so know all about km's as well...LoL As you have probably noticed I like to deviate from Canon, well at least have an alternate time line available . I really like Renaissance, it has a slightly more militant feel to it but still tries to stay true to core Star Trek ideals. I get what you are saying though.

I try to take a Brechtian approach to canonicity anyway.

http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/...rch_vessel.jpg

Size 4
L 157.8m
B 135.27m
H 31.5m
Mass 100000mt
Decks 4
SU (available) 3250
treated as a 34th century Federation vessel for technology, added 10x15% increases to SU's
SU (used 3153)

Hull (outer) <16>
Hull (inner) <16>
Resistance (outer) [4000] <12>
Resistance (inner) 10 <12>
*neutronium hull plating <160>
*ship regeneration <40>
*atmo capability <4>
*planet fall capability <4>
*sensor reflective hull <12>

SIF (class 7) 100/150 <34>
SIF (B'up) 50 <17>
SIF (B'up) 50 <17>

Crew/pass/evac 40 (2)/10/200
*computer automation allows for a crew of 2 to operate vessel.

Quarters
Basic 10 (2 berth) <1>
Expanded 5 (1-4 berth) <1>
Luxury/unusual 10 (1 berth) <10>

Basic LS (caters for 500) <16>
Reserve LS <8>
Emergency LS (24 emergency shelters) <8>
Gravity <4>
Consumables 2 year worth <8>

Replicator (food) <4>
Replicator (industrial) <4>
2 large pad <6>

Medical facilities (10) +2 emk3 <40>
*CMO 5/6 per 4/5 (only if fully crewed, otherwise staffed by holo-personnel)
LMH (mkVI) has access to the entire vessel<20>

Recreation facilities (5) <40>
1 main holodeck, 5 personnel holosuites
Pleasant eating facilities (one small lounge integrated into mess hall), 2 small lounges
*holo emitters placed through out vessel <12>

Jefferies tubes, turbolift network <16>
Site-to-site transport
Fire suppression <4>
Escape pods 100 (QSS pods 12 berth) <10>
Caro bays 100000m cubed <3>

Transwarp drive <60>
(equivalent to a class V coaxial drive) 6 ly/min

Impulse engine (1) Hyper class VIII <42>
.98c (100%) [72 pwr]
RCS <4>

Omega power core [4500pwr] <20>
*generates the equivalent power of 10 class 9/o M/AM reactors
EPS (exomagnetic) +1200pwr <60>
Auxiliary pwr (5) [25pwr] <15>
Emergency pwr (type f) [25pwr] <50>
*usable power 4572

Bridge <20>

Computer cores(2) Quantum +8 <32>
class epsilon uprating <10>
ODN <12>
*computer automation <40>
vessel can be operated by as few as 2 crew.

Nav deflector (main) 15/50000/100000/250000 <16>

Sensors
LR type 60x (+4) <240>
hr44ly lr 104ly 15 str class delta gain <24>
+15000 substances/effects <45>

Lateral (14ly) (+4) <48>
15 str class delta gain
+15000 substances/effects <45>

Navigational (+4) <46>
15 str class delta gain

Chronometric (+4) <46>
15 str class delta gain
Sensor skill 6

Probes 100<10>

Auto pilot 4(3) <15>
Nav comp (class IV) (+3) <6>
Nav comp (B'up) <2>
IDF (main) 2 <16>
IDF (B'up) 2 <4>
Attitude control <1>
*manual steering column <1>
*neurogenic interface <4>

Comms QSS <46>
15 str sec -10 +2
*emergency comms <1>
*holo comms <1>

Tractor beams (2) <26>
class delta multiphase 4/5/7/10
fore ventral, aft

Tractor beam (1) <3>
class alpha 5/6/8/11
shuttle bay

Transporter (personnel) 1 room <38>
6 pad 3ly range 15 str enhanced.

Transporter (emergency) 2 rooms <52>
24 pad 25000km range 15 str

Transporter (cargo)1 in cargo bay <32>
1200kg 3ly range 15 str

Phasing cloak (type XII) <52>

Security systems (4) <16>
*anti intruder system <4>
*internal force fields <4>

Science systems (5) +4 <16>
40 labs <2>
2 specialized labs <10>

TA/T/TS (epsilon) str 11 +3 <18>
Weapon skill 6
Auto destruct (contained to the within the vessel, disintegrates) <4>

Shuttle bay (4 size class worth) <8>
1 shuttle
2 shuttle pods

Anti-proton particle beam arrays (6) <636>
range 15/40000/200000/500000km
acc 3/4/5/6 Arc 541+degree's Dam 500 Pwr 50
Modes std, pulse 7 sht/rnd
*fore port and starboard prow, mid-ship ventral and dorsal, aft port and starboard prow

Torpedo launchers, high yield (2) <60>
Range 25/500000/3m/6m km
spread 12 acc 3/4/6/9
*fore ventral, aft

Magazines
(2) 240 transphasic/chronoton torpedoes (480) <48>
dam 1000, ignore shields

Aceton drones (20) <40>

*energy dampening field (.1 AU) <100>

Shields (metaphasic, regenerative) <352>
P 4200/6300
T 1350
Regen 50/rnd
*temporal shield enhancer <20>
*B'up shields (4) <4>

The Palisade-class Corvette is a general purpose Voth research and exploration vessel. While these vessels can be crewed by 40 personnel computer automation allows them to be operated by as few as 2 personnel if required. While these vessels primary mission is research and exploration they are well equipped to achieve most other mission profiles. The Voth's long range sensor capability is beyond anything the Federation is capable of achieving even in the 34th century, the Research vessel is able to scan from a distance of over ninety light years with significant accuracy, even down to the individual lifeform readings.