star trek vs star wars technology discussion

I will start off by saying, I love both franchises (with a preference to star trek...LoL) and I don't want to start a flame war here (I understand it can be a contentious subject for fans) with this discussion, but I really want to know what the members here thought's are concerning the subject.

For me Star Wars technology reminds me of the Federation in the 22nd century (technology wise), with the exception of their FTL drives, which seemed to be very small (fit in any size vessel, even small shuttle sized vessels and fighters) and powerful (capable of traversing vast distances very quickly, some times travelling at transwarp velocities), though their drives seemed more fragile, the Millennium Falcon's FTL drive never seemed to be working properly... Star Wars technology also had some glaring deficiencies, most notably replicators and transporters, and their holographic tech seemed rudimentary at best.

Most of there ship mounted weapon systems, for me would be inferior to Star Trek versions, Turbolasers would not be equivalent to phasers, and their torpedo's seemed to an whole order of magnitude less powerful then photon torpedoes.

Why I open this discussion is, reading many of the Star Wars sites I get the distinct impression they truly believe Star Wars technology is the height of technological development, something I completely disagree with.

What are the forums thought's?

I agree. What Star Wars have is numbers; while Trek have, in general, better technology. Most Starfleet ships are also multi role, while the Empire has pure war ships. So an armed exploration vessel like the Galaxy class, with roughly a thousand people aboard (families) should still be able to go toe-to-toe with a couple of Star Destroyers.

While a ship from Star Wars can take quite a bit of pummeling, and able to dish out quite a bit as well; the shields of a Star Trek ship can take quite a bit of that pummeling, and it will hit back hard with precision, striking at the weak points.

I always liked this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxhrPaaCA4 It fits my opinion quite a bit :)

that youtube vid was good, I enjoyed that.

I would also like to see what would happen if The Empire came up against say the Romulan's or Klingon's, I have a feeling either would wipe the floor with The Empire.

As you said Cpt. Lundgren The Empire has the numbers, they are a galactic power (from memory Star Wars is set in a galaxy similar to our own, about 100000ly across and is a spiral type galaxy) and have influence across their galaxy. In comparison The Federation (as of the late 2300's) only spans 8000ly and consists of around 200 member species.

How are the Romulans or Klingons travelling back in time to fight the Empire?

too true mate, what I meant was in the scenario depicted by Omega, as in what would the outcome be if an Imperial battle group opened a rift into Klingon or Romulan space in the late 24th century (any later and the Empire would stand no chance).

Star Wars also never addressed time travel in much detail, to the point of saying it was exceedingly rare if not impossible in the Star Wars universe.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Time_travel

I am of the opinion that after the 26th century Federation technology far exceeded Star Wars, and by the 31st century even a small Federation star ship (such as the Wells-class or even the Aeon-type) would be capable of single-handedly destroy any Imperial ship.

The thing with Star Wars / Star Trek is that either you consider they have the exactly the technology that is presented on the show (e.g. turbolasers are actually lasers), or if they are translated somewho (a turbolaser is some sort of disruptor).

With the translation, the technologies would be more or less matched - I assume space fights would happen like they do in the movies/series. The transporter would give Trek an advantage for boarding and ground invasion (I'm assuming here that the Wars shields work like the Trek shields), while the hyperdrive would allow the Wars ship to move faster (it looks like some kind of transwarp).

Without the translation... Trek would probably own Wars. Lasers have been shown not to do much to Federation shields and I'm not sure if the Wars shields could stop transporter beams or a photon torpedon. The hyperdrive and the Force would remain their biggest assets, but I don't think any Wars ship short of the Death Star could cause a significant threat to the Enterprise-E. And let's not get started on the Romulans / Klingons and their cloaking devices (although I guess the Force could help to sense them).

Star Wars did have cloaking technology, at least in the animated series.
I have to say C5 I like your take on things, thanks for your insights, it has given me some things to think about.

As far as personnel goes, yeah the Force is way outside of what almost any Federation citizen could hope to do, though if you delve into the psionic abilities (particular if you take into account the expanded psionic abilities presented in Star Trek Next Generation Players Handbook page 97) of some of the races, many could achieve results similar to the strongest force wielders.

One last thing while the Death Star is massively powerful I doubt she would be very maneuverable, and the SuperLaser (man I hate the names of these SW weapons...LoL) only has a limited acr of fire, so a powerful small (in relation to the Death Star) ship such as the Enterprise-E would have a distinct tactical advantage. I reckon if the Enterprise-E can go toe to toe with a Borg Cube (as seen in Star Trek First Contact) she would be able to handle a Death Star. I would also postulate that with her shields modified to metaphasic shields the E could survive a single hit from the SuperLaser...

If you want to get really riled up google "star wars vs star trek" (I won't post a link, not appropriate in IMHO) and go visit some sites, those star wars fans are literally that, fanatical, and they seem to harbor a distinct prejudice (sorry fore the spelling error, fixed now) towards trekkies.

Well, even if a turbolaser is a distuptor (after all, both seems to fire some energy thingy that more behaves as a kinetic projectile, which is neither accurate and is harder to hit moving targets with.) From the on-screen effects, the turbolasers feels more like TOS era weaponry. But considering when and how Star Wars got made, that shouldn't be surprising. :)

So Enterprise-D vs. Enterprise-A wouldn't be much of a fair fight. Enterprise-A vs. a Star Wars ship built for a similar type of mission? Now, that is a fight I think could go either way (but I still think Trek FTL gives more options to tactically outmaneuver someone with Star Wars FTL; but SW FTL might strategically outmaneuver Trek FTL). So as I'm looking at it, TNG era vs. Star Wars is a bit like WWII U.S. or Japanese battleships vs. modern Swedish naval vessels.

About the size of the Galactic Empire, with all the talk of the Rim, etc. In my head, the Empire (including rebelling systems) never controlled more than 30% of the actual galaxy, and considering how small the Federation actually is, all you have to do is to skip the Dominion and all of that Borg space, and both could be in the same galaxy without being aware of the other. :D

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Originally Posted by WaveMan

If you want to get really riled up google "star wars vs star trek" (I won't post a link, not appropriate in IMHO) and go visit some sites, those star wars fans are literally that, fanatical, and they seem to harbor a distinct prodigious towards trekkies.

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Well, I guess someone has to live up to the reason it is called a Fan (-atic). :rolleyes:

It has always fascinated me how those having that strong opinions so rarely actually knows anything about "the other side" and are usually either fighting strawmen or windmills. :p It doesn't matter if we talk SW vs. Trek, or Windows vs. Linux.

I guess I'm on a posting spree... :p

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Originally Posted by WaveMan

Star Wars did have cloaking technology, at least in the animated series.

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Don't forget this line in The Empire Strikes Back; "No ship that small has a cloaking device." :)

get into it mate, I am enjoying your views as well, and I haven't had the opportunity to debate with the sites admin till now...LoL

I also think in regards to the size of the Empire, writers of these stories most likely don't actually understand the actual size of a galaxy, they are an immense structures, and as you point out in reality both civilizations could easily exist in a galaxy and never run into each other.

I guess the handheld phasers would also own the blasters, as I don't think we have seen a blaster be able to vaporise something or someone. I doubt the Storm Troopers armours would change anything to it.

If we translate the Force as a psionic power, it could be manageable. We have not seen a lot of telekinetic powers in Trek, but there have been characters with extensive mental powers, such as Troi who could sense emotions from people on another starship (when she was not confined to saying that she sensed hostility in a foaming mad Klingon). Not translated, it could become a real problem, especially if Force-sensitive people are widespread enough. Also I don't know if a lightsaber could be able to deflect a phaser beam, but it would be more than a match for a bat'leth anyway.

I agree with Cpt. Lundgren about the advantages of the different FTL speed between both universes. In particular, the Wars ships would be able to gather much more quickly, and probably perform surprise attacks undetected (even when translating hyperdrive as transwarp, as I'm not sure the Trek ships could do much more than detect a transwarp conduit as it was about to open).

Then there is the extreme adaptability of Trek science to consider. I wonder how long it would take for a Starfleet engineer to reconfigure a tricorder to take remote control of a Wars ship or a combat droid. Actually the Trek computers could be a very significant asset, as I'm not sure how advanced the Wars computers are (a combadge being somehow the equivalent of C3PO...)

Anyway this is a fun discussion. It's been a while since I had not participated in one on this forum :)

That is one of the big difference for me, science and sensor technology of Trek, it exceed's Wars by a significant margin. Trek sensors are capable of a far more significant definition and sensor distance then any Wars equivalent.

I would also point out that Trek weapons targeting computers far exceed any Wars system. Most Wars ship weapon system are manned by personnel, where as Trek weapon systems are mostly controlled by computer (yes the tactical officer oversee's the weapon systems but overall the computer operates the vessels weapon systems)

As long as I get some work done as well... :cool:

Warning, some heavy "fan patching" ahead :D

It doesn't seem possible to steer while being in hyperspace. After all, they had the comment of "last known trajectory." So when being in the pipe, there is nothing to really do but following the pipe. Also, I don't agree with the travel times mentioned for example in the Star Wars D6 RPG. My impression from A New Hope is that going from Tatooine to Alderan is a few hours, eighteen at the most.

Then we have Hoth --> Asteroid field --> Bespin. The asteroid field could be in the same system, but Bespin being in the same system as Hoth? That just doesn't compute. Solo didn't just picked the closest option, so I would guess Bespin was within a 10 light year radius. So, how did they get there? If it was a slower hyperspace option, why not use it to make a quick jump out of there? While the movie didn't gave any impression of how long that trip took, Luke was with Yoda for at least some time. My guess is that Luke was not with Yoda any shorter than a month, but not more than six months. So, if "1.5 above the speed of light" is a logarithmic thing, it could be a slow warp like engine. 10^1.5 is about 31,6. So if the distance between Hoth and Bespin is five to ten light years, we are talking about 2-4 months.

Now, I also have a problem with the warp speed table in LUG Trek. But it seems to be based on the thought that if it would take Voyager 80 years to get those 80,000ly, it would take one year to travel 1,000ly within the Federation. But as I see it, the 80 year estimate is because of it being going through uncharted territory, with a ship not built nor supplied for a longer journey.

I think it would be pretty easy to genetically engineer a bioweapon that reacts fatally to the presence of midichlorians.

The biggest problem with the MF's travel to Bespin is that they HAD NO HYPERDRIVE. That's why they needed to go to Bespin. The Hyperdrive Motivator was cooked. We don't know what "1.5 above lightspeed" is. Hell, Solo doesn't even know what a parsec is (and the fannish attempts to explain the remark are laughable). Star Wars is a "Space Fantasy" - that's the description Lucas always used, right from the beginning. Hyperdrive is precisely "speed of plot". All tech in Star Wars is magic - no science involved As far as midichlorians go, I would say they're not a discrete entity, but rather a measurement of Force power, like Volts or Roentgens.

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Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton

The biggest problem with the MF's travel to Bespin is that they HAD NO HYPERDRIVE. That's why they needed to go to Bespin. The Hyperdrive Motivator was cooked.

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In SW D6, they put in a "Backup Hyperdrive" to explain things like that. As a motivator can be anything, so the one in the backup might not be able to handle the energy of the main drive, and barely make them able to limp along to a nearby system.

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We don't know what "1.5 above lightspeed" is. Hell, Solo doesn't even know what a parsec is (and the fannish attempts to explain the remark are laughable). Star Wars is a "Space Fantasy" - that's the description Lucas always used, right from the beginning. Hyperdrive is precisely "speed of plot". All tech in Star Wars is magic - no science involved As far as midichlorians go, I would say they're not a discrete entity, but rather a measurement of Force power, like Volts or Roentgens.

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It sure it. But I hate "speed of plot" when I GM and want a rational explanation, even if I have to make one up :)

When it comes to midichlorians, that is the best explanation I have seen so far. Then, the explanation to Anakin just was in the vein of "What is electrons?" and an adult that dumbs it down to much and explains electrons as small living entities.

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Originally Posted by WaveMan

I also think in regards to the size of the Empire, writers of these stories most likely don't actually understand the actual size of a galaxy, they are an immense structures, and as you point out in reality both civilizations could easily exist in a galaxy and never run into each other.

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To mix in yet another "Star something" into the mix, that the galaxy is huge and there is a lot of stars out there is something I feel they got right in SG1. Even though there were a lot of Star Gates out there, the wast amount of systems without one made it a waste of time to try guessing where they were (and if the coordinate of the star was a bit off, they couldn't get a lock).

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Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton

The biggest problem with the MF's travel to Bespin is that they HAD NO HYPERDRIVE. That's why they needed to go to Bespin. The Hyperdrive Motivator was cooked. We don't know what "1.5 above lightspeed" is. Hell, Solo doesn't even know what a parsec is (and the fannish attempts to explain the remark are laughable). Star Wars is a "Space Fantasy" - that's the description Lucas always used, right from the beginning. Hyperdrive is precisely "speed of plot". All tech in Star Wars is magic - no science involved As far as midichlorians go, I would say they're not a discrete entity, but rather a measurement of Force power, like Volts or Roentgens.

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While that would be an amusing alteration, we have Qui-Gon Jinn spelling it out clearly:

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Originally Posted by QUI-GON JINN

Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all living cells.

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Just like Han used Parsecs as a time unit. Qui-Gonn didn't strike me as the sharpest crayon in the box, and anyway, as noted above, he was trying to explain it to a 9-year-old. Besides, Lucas clearly isn't the sharpest crayon in the box,as he wrote both lines.

He's literally the third smartest guy in that particular box. But, as you say, it's a bad box.

I'm not sure if symbiotic organisms living in people's cells that are uniquely sensitive to an interstellar energy field is actually a worse idea that just borrowing qi wholesale, but it didn't seem to mesh well with people's expectations.

they just should have bitten the bullet and call the Force 'magic'. You are right TTK it didn't seem to mesh well with people's expectations. I will admit many of the force powers were very cool though.

One last thing too, concerning the worst character to be presented in any sci-fi series has to be Jar Jar Binks, basically ruined the films he stars in for me.

I broke out the discussion about warp speed and travel distances, and it can be found here; http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...d-travel-times

thanks mate, at least now the thread remains intact.:cool: