Printable View
Okay, Know I now, that this is probably the least glamorious of role in STarTrek, but how in the world do you think the fleet stays actuve particularly during wartime, with out a support fleet. ANd what sort of vessels do you think they would be?
------------------
Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer
Cargo transports of all sizes to begin with. Bulk ones to get from the core worlds to near the fronts, and smaller ones with energy sheaths to carry stuff into the battle zone. Troop transports as well to bring crews & Marines to the front. Tugs to recover damaged ships. Two ships from the Star Fleet Battles universe strike me as particularly useful, the Fleet Repair Dock and the Mobile Base. The FRD is a small space dock with nacelles & impulse drives added on. The moble base is basically two specialized pods for their tugs, plus four regular pods of varying types that lock together to make a temporary outpost. I've got no idea how to build either one in Spacedock. Especially if I go with the stats listed for the Ptolomy-class tugs in the Utopia Planitia section of the webpage. I've currently said, "The heck with it!", and am designing a size class 6 station that lists a special effect of being able to be broken down into three sections for transport & rapid set up.Quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Talbot:
Okay, Know I now, that this is probably the least glamorious of role in STarTrek, but how in the world do you think the fleet stays actuve particularly during wartime, with out a support fleet. ANd what sort of vessels do you think they would be?
------------------
If not for physics & law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!
I would think those skeletal drydocks could be broken down and transported fast. Or have some kind of warp sled attached to it.
If you are interested in this side of the fleet, then The Price of Freedom source book has info about the Merchant Marine, complete with the stats for a merchant vessel. Also, included is the Deneva-class light transport.
------------------
In the Praetors Name!
Just had a brain-storm... http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/eek.gif I could simulate the FRD by giving it shields that are much larger that the actual size-class of the ship itself. Quick off-the-cuff house rule: to simulate the open laticework of the spacedock, give it shields two size-classes larger than the biggest ship it can carry if the dock is mobile, one size class if it just stays in orbit. The extra size class for the mobile ones is to account for the retractable framework. It pulls the girders in when travelling, so as to allow for a better warp profile, or some such treknobabble. Add assorted tractors to keep the ship (the one being fixed) in place if the dock has to move at impulse, and say the dock can't move at warp, & still protect the ship. What to y'all think?Quote:
Originally posted by qerlin:
I would think those skeletal drydocks could be broken down and transported fast. Or have some kind of warp sled attached to it.
------------------
If not for physics & law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!
all right now we are going, actually i have designed what I call the Combat Support Tender, it is a starship, a modified Miranda class Hull, Tri-Nacelle. SHe is a size 9 class vessel, as soon as I can get it to Word I will submit it.
SHe is the Norfolk Class. The repair Module is hooked to the aft end of the Primary hull, w/ one nacelle, the rep mod is not skeletal as it is a solid frame piece, she is rather cleverly designed vessel.
The big draw back would be when repairs are being done, it can't move for fear of leaving the Worker pods and repair crews behind. but the idea would be to hook up w/ the damaged starship and Intiate any repairs neccessary at that time, essential a floating space station.
------------------
Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer
Hmmm....I was thinking about designing a "next-generation" tug similar to the tugs used in Star Fleet Battles. IMHO, I could simulate this by using the system for saucer separation (emergency only) for attaching the pod, then set aside a number of spaces to show the pod's contents.
I would assume the support ships would be the same as those used by todays navy: Hospital Ship (AH); Fuel Tanker (AO); Transport (AP); Cargo Ship (AK) Repair Ship (AR); and Salvage Ship (ARS).
Ok, so how would one design a tug intended for rescuing derelict ships (yours or someone else’s) in deep-space. You can’t travel at warp, and traveling at impulse from just about any where would take How Long. The tug type (I’m assuming that’s what it was) in the opening seen of the first episode of the last season of DS9, towing an Excelsior?-class seemed to be keeping up with the fleet, and they would have had to go to warp at some point.
Phoenix...
------------------
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon
This may be something for a future SRM's ship components section, but I wonder if it might be possible to expand a ship's warp field to bring the towed ship along. (Similar to following a ship down a Transwarp corridor, only not.)I'm sure it would cost an unghodly amount of SU's, based on how large a ship could be towed in this manner. Trek shows & fiction have often had ships being towed over stellar distances. Rather than having it take years at .95c (Even if only months passed aboard the ships due to that time dialation thing. If my numbers are right, it's a 3:1 our time to ship's time)there has to be a way to tow at warp. The story demands it, after all. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gifQuote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:
Ok, so how would one design a tug intended for rescuing derelict ships (yours or someone else’s) in deep-space. You can’t travel at warp, and traveling at impulse from just about any where would take How Long.
Jon
------------------
If not for physics & law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!
To establish a stable warp-field and maneuver at warp speeds you need at least two warp nacelles and four work out as well.
My best idea would be to use two tugs to tow a ship at warp-speeds. Each tugs has two warp nacelles itself and attaches itself to the ship to be towed. Together they could use their warp drives to establish a warp-field with the damaged ship in the middle.
Attachment points would preferably be on the port and starbord sides of the ship to be towed, since that should make it easier to establish a geometric warp-field.
Possible docking points on the dorsal and ventral side would not be symetric on many starships and could therefore lead to an unstable warp-field.
(At leasts that's how I would do it.)
------------------
"To seek, to strive, to find and not to yield" - Alfred Tennyson
Would the "tug" have to make physical contact with the towed ship? Why not just attach a super sized tractor beam to a Miranda-class (or smaller) sized ship? Wasn't that what the tractor beam was ment to do?
No such luck, as far as Spacedock (and presumably Icon) goes. To loosely quote from Spacedock, going to warp while tractored rips your ship apart, and going to warp while you've got someone tractored disrupts the tractor beam. On the other hand, in the non-combat manuvers section of the book, they mention that it's possible (but risky) to tractor a ship while matching warp speeds to stop a ship that got a runaway warp drive. I suppose this is because it was done at somepoint during one of the shows. Trek-tech, go fig. No one ever said it had to make sense. :-\Quote:
Originally posted by redwood973:
Would the "tug" have to make physical contact with the towed ship? Why not just attach a super sized tractor beam to a Miranda-class (or smaller) sized ship? Wasn't that what the tractor beam was ment to do?
Jon
------------------
If not for physics & law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!
How about this?
You could use variable geometry equipment for the 2 or 4 warp nacelles of the tug, put them on telescoping pylons or something. Picture something like the Akira class without the weapon pod/control tower in between the nacelles. The tug would have multiple delta type tractor beams. Phasers for basic defense. Strong shields if it has to pull a ship out of a furball or extend its shields. Transporters to get survivors out.
The MFD could look like the construction ship from Star Trek Armada. Once it gets where is has to be it breaks out MFD, a variant could also be a mobile base.
------------------
"Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!"
For attachments, I suspect they'd use magnetic clamps of some description (much more secure than tractor beams), and physically hold the vessel at points where the skeleton of the ship is on the surface (to avoid damage). Two tugs would make perfect sense for this.
Of course, Federation vessels may be built with specially designed hardpoints for just such an occasion. They might require only one tug, or movement might be correspondingly faster due to the stability of the connection.
------------------
Slartibart-Jon
That is what I am refering to, Basically the last two you have listed the Repair and Salvage vessel. My basic thought would be for a vessel that can intiate at least some of the Minor Skeletal repairs, Like a Twisted Nacelle Frame, Patch in the hull, while the ship is still with the Fleet, thus cutting down loss of ships and Man Power. As for the rest of the Support Fleet, a Definite Yes, to Hospital ships, and Supply vessels, thought StarFleet has been able to transport materials and supplies to the fleet on their own Starships. I would think that a Supply Group is still neccessary, for Items that cannot be moved by a StarFleet vessel, either due to time constrants or lack of specialized material to transport it.Quote:
Originally posted by redwood973:
I would assume the support ships would be the same as those used by todays navy: Hospital Ship (AH); Fuel Tanker (AO); Transport (AP); Cargo Ship (AK) Repair Ship (AR); and Salvage Ship (ARS).
So who is up to Join the Supply arm of StarFleet we can Keep the Fleet moving. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif
------------------
Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer
Was not the USS Stargazer towed by tractor beam by the Enterprise, at warp, when it was recovered from the Feringi and towed to the nearest Starbase? It seems to me that a tug could be made to tow a vessel via tractor beam (may need be a super-charged one) at warp.Quote:
Originally posted by Cybrludite:
No such luck, as far as Spacedock (and presumably Icon) goes. To loosely quote from Spacedock, going to warp while tractored rips your ship apart, and going to warp while you've got someone tractored disrupts the tractor beam. On the other hand, in the non-combat manuvers section of the book, they mention that it's possible (but risky) to tractor a ship while matching warp speeds to stop a ship that got a runaway warp drive. I suppose this is because it was done at somepoint during one of the shows. Trek-tech, go fig. No one ever said it had to make sense. :-\
Hey, I just game in this universe... I try to avoid watching it as much as possible. It hurts when my reality suspenders pop back like that... http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/tongue.gif (You don't want to get me started on the conspiracy in ST:VI. "Hey, lets work together so we can kill each other!")Quote:
Originally posted by redwood973:
Was not the USS Stargazer towed by tractor beam by the Enterprise, at warp, when it was recovered from the Feringi and towed to the nearest Starbase? It seems to me that a tug could be made to tow a vessel via tractor beam (may need be a super-charged one) at warp.
Jon
That minor point aside, though, I liked ST:VI
------------------
If not for physics & law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!
It just seems odd to me that a tech would be developed to "hold" an object in place and someone not say, "Hay! This would be great for towing too!" Any problems that arose from the first few tests would be examined and corrected. If someone missed such a logical step to this piece of tech--well, off with thier heads! http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gifQuote:
Originally posted by Cybrludite:
Hey, I just game in this universe... I try to avoid watching it as much as possible. It hurts when my reality suspenders pop back like that... http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/tongue.gif (You don't want to get me started on the conspiracy in ST:VI. "Hey, lets work together so we can kill each other!")
[This message has been edited by redwood973 (edited 07-07-2001).]