This one speaks for itself ;)
http://pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20000917
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This one speaks for itself ;)
http://pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20000917
Was it ever said where the V'GER probe came from? The Klingons intercepted it first, which implies a rimward origin, which doesn't jive with the current galaxy layout that we all know.
Although it would make sense that V'GER, now perfect with the assimilation of Decker (it really was a self-inflicted assimilation, really) would want to know everything about the perfectness of the interface between organic life forms and machine.
Hey all,
I have a sort of mild disappointment with every Borg episode after "I, Borg" (excellent, that one). While reportedly even Roddenberry speculated that the Borg may be descended from V'Ger, I've been told, as a silly gag during an interview, on-screen canon (the strictest rule Trek can be held to, I feel) states that the Borg are ancient, and from very far away. They were so much more alien.
I had the pleasure of seeing "Q Who" and "I, Borg" again recently, and was re-inspired by the creepy, cold, unfeeling Borg of old. When we first met them, they were a menacing force that truly believed their way of life was right for everyone. It wasn't their tech level that scared me, it was their worldview. They were a gigantic bureaucratic machine that literally crushed and absorbed all citizens because it new better than they what was best for them.
By the time we get to VOYAGER's "Endgame," they have fully become just another Trek race or faction: vengeful, petty, and villainous. Their "perfection" motivation is, to me, unconvincing. I would have been much more interested to learn, during Voyager's journey, what it was that compelled some race of human-like folk to spawn the Borg all those centuries ago. Imagine the first race conquered by the Borg . . .
word,
will
Um...it was not meant to be taken seriously...
Sorry about that.
Thought ;) <---- Would give it away.
Come now, you should know ALL things here are taken seriously... :)
Is that why the essay was presented as a modern American sequential art piece? What do you call it ... a "comic strip?" :)
I know you weren't serious, but after that damn TNN marathon the notion had been in my head and you, poor bastard, brought it out. :)
word,
will
Exterminate! Exterminate! ah I mean Assimulate! Assimulate!
Hmm, I wish somebody would have pointed out to Shatner that the whole V'ger/Borg thing was errr.... somewhat dubious.
I too like the idea that the Borg have been about for centuries, if not millenia. Now if only they'd go back to their prewussiness phase, I'd be happy :D
Yeah that TNN marathon kinda wore me out as well.
And I missed Yesterday's Enterprise by like a hair, simply forgot it was on...stupid...stupid...stupid....
Oh well, can't wait for the DVD :)
As for the BORG, maybe they are millenia old, but what encourages their growth? Is is when they deplete a region, and completely cyber-ize it, then they move on?
I hate the idea that a race is below assimilation, why? At the very worst, they are drones.
Even Styro's STARSHIP EATING, WHY OH WHY DOES IT HAVE TORPEDOES, I JUST LAUNCHED A FLEET OF FIRE POWER INTO IT AND IT'S "OK", DAMN FISH!!!!! :pQuote:
Originally posted by Dan Stack
Come now, you should know ALL things here are taken seriously... :)
First off, Sorry for the double post here.
Second- The other night at work a thought came to me about the Borg (if you had my job you'd understand completely). Now we've all been assuming that the Borg began as a group of individuals, that decided to augment themselves, willingly, with cybernetics. What if the opposite is true- something along the lines of the movie "Virus".
A non-corporeal energy being (referred to as "entity" from here on) merged (infected, etc.) with some form of an automated robotics facility, then started building devices to conquer the planet. After several failed attempts, the entity realized the technology it needed to build the devices it needed to win didn’t exist, so the entity turned to biology to accomplish it’s aims. By merging it’s robotics with a humanoid host (very primitive at first) it made more advances towards it’s goals. Somewhere along the process a new- combine consciousness awoke between the entity and the collective will of the planets population. There by creating the Borg, a relentless tool of conquest, no straying, no contemplation, no second thoughts- just one goal- control everything.
Thoughts, comments, large balls of plasma...
Phoenix...
Look, for the last time, the giant space pleco (AKA That Damn Fish) is not a problem!!! All you need is a few torpedo casings, loaded with salt, vinegar and possibly pepper, and a bunch of really hungry nanites manufactured in London (preferably the East End of said city). Coat the pleco in the aforementioned flavourings and watch the little beggars go!
Of course, if you could find some really massive chips (for our American friends, that's what we Brits call Fries - crisps are our version of your chips), it could only help...
Eh, I like my recipe, please see http://forum.trekrpg.net/showthread....&threadid=2433
But the nanites sound usable too
Phoenix...
This message has been removed on request by the
poster
In my series the Q sent the crew back in time to an occupied world far away in the delta quadrant(mind you Q in my game was an adorible socialite couselor who had been oberving the crew for a year before people got suspicious-) . The aliens were humanoid, with forhead prosthetic and they spoke english. (thats a joke for all my alien races.) Anyway. There was a local warlord that had been taking system after system. He would kill off 90% of the population and leave only a few souls to help convert the planet into one he could take. Those last few would be considered slaves and would eventually be killed. The warlord of course didn't tell them this, he made them 'nobels' and promised them fantastic lives and full planetary governing. The warlord, Aneaas, (History buffs know that Aeneas of Troy was attibuted with the founding of the Roman Empire) had taken this last world but had several problems in bringing it into his control. There was an atmospheric variance that he had spent the last ten years converting into a breathable gas for his people. This gave an unpresidented amount of time for occupation. The survivors had time to plan a revolt. The atmosphere was soon to be readied and time was short. Now not every survivor thought that doom was comming some were loyal to Aneaas and his army, and some, a very few were focused only on finishing their scientific studies. Hellen was a scientist who had been working, prior to the conflicts, on a device that could coordinate physical actions. She wanted nothing to do with politcs or rebellions, she only wanted to perfect her device. The device did not control your mind, just coordinated what you physically did. The rebel survivors wanted to use her device to enhance there small fleet of ships that where hidden away. Alone they wouldn't even stand against one of Aneaas's ships, but if coordinated well they could destroy the fleet and eventually rebuild. So you have a group of bad genocidal aliens who are going to kill the last bit of a civilization and they run across the galaxy consuming system afteresystem. Dr Hellen who is consumed with finishing her device and wont stop until it is perfect, and a group of rebels who want to use Hellen's device to coordinate their attacks agains the evil genocidal aliens. Now INSERT player character group, suddenly affixed with forhead prosthetics and let them do what they will. I have ran this senario with two differnt groups and both ended up helping the rebels. Both groups suspected that the technology that hellen worked on not only resembeled the borg set up, but would eventually be the basis of the borg technology.
Who gets the tech, do you destroy it, help the rebels stand aside and do nothing? Whuddudo?
"Do nothing, and the Jeruians (occupied alien world) and yourselves will all die. Act and you will save them, but violate your own Prime Directive. Whatever you choose to do will have horrific consequences upon the future. I leave you now to your fate Captain Kirk." Givvens dissapeared in a signature flash of light that reminded all present that she was Q.
Ahha, It all becomes clear to me now. I personally would have just stuck them on a shuttle in the Sol system...Sort of an Admiral's limmo service type assignment.Quote:
Originally posted by StyroFoam Man
The whole point of the Fish was to get a crew of Gun-ho players to open the damn hailing freuqs.... Which they did after a year of trying to blast and technobabble it to death.
Wasn't there a VOY episode that dealt with the formation of the Borg? Or did I dream it?
I thought it was an ep with Seven "seeing" back in time or something...oh well...maybe I did dream it.
If we could just reconcile the V'Ger timeline with the fact that First Contact is set (sort of) 120 yrs earlier, I'd love to go with the V'ger idea!
I think it's great, personally.
You're thinking of the Voyager script posted somewhere on the 'Net where they find an ancient probe sent by the proto-Borg which downloads memories into Seven. It was pretty good - shame Paramount never picked it up.
That was a damn good script alright. I may use it someday in an adventure.
Merging V'Ger with the Borgs is a great idea, but that brings a few issues - for instance, the fact that in theory, only Q's intervention in 2365 made the Borgs aware of the Federation - they should have known about Earth long before if they were spawned by V'Ger.
Let's see... maybe they could have the same origin? Some powerful race, who tried to help less advanced species to evolve toward perfection (I'm thinking Xel'Naga, for those who read the StarCraft manual), and, after enhancing V'Ger, tried that on those who would become the Borg.
I'm a bit bugged having Borg millenia old. After all, given the speed they can adapt and expand, they would have assimilated the entire galaxy by now and been looking for a way to leave it. I would vote for Borgs only a few centuries old. Some civilisation like Earth in early 21st century, who took this Internet thing a bit too seriously ;).
Any other ideas?
That's right!Quote:
Originally posted by Capt.Hunter
You're thinking of the Voyager script posted somewhere on the 'Net where they find an ancient probe sent by the proto-Borg which downloads memories into Seven. It was pretty good - shame Paramount never picked it up.
I knew I wasn't dreaming it, but I couldn't place it in an episode. That explains it.
It's....it's all....it's all coming back to me now....THE HORROR!
Surely the easiest way to do that would have been to simply make the fish proof against anything but unarmed, thus not to be considered a threat or source of new toys?Quote:
Originally posted by StyroFoam Man
The whole point of the Fish was to get a crew of Gun-ho players to open the damn hailing freuqs.... Which they did after a year of trying to blast and technobabble it to death.
If you know they're ggung ho, waving something like that about is simply like waving a re flag for a bull.
It would also help if as Narrator you dropped the clue,by having the fish hail them.
After all you've seen the reaction to the presence of torpedos on the Fish. Everyone asks why. So the same logic applies to communications, ie; Why would an organic being be fitted with subspace tranceivers, and why the hell would it talk a language that we can understand, being a vacuum dwelling being and thus unable to vocalise?
Thus science was on the side of your 'gung-ho' players in assuming that there was no way to communicate.
nah, nah!:p
See, taken WAYYYY too seriously... But that is why I have spent the last year trying to avoid THAT DAMN FISH on these boards, its not my fault it found its way into a useful thread for plot seeds...
I know books and canon don't go together in most cases, but Shatner's "The Return" explained the V'Ger probe/Borg connection pretty good and it made sense.
The probe was actually discovered by the Borg in deep space but it was non-operational. The Borg, being the scientists that they are, repaired the probe to accomplish it's primary mission (to assimilate data on the universe). Then of couse the rest is history, V'ger probe comes to earth looking for it's creator, Borg then discover humans in TNG and come to earth, etc
If you watch the movie it all sort of fits because there is a scene where they discover a dark world inside of V'ger that looks like a Borg world. I think Spock even makes a remark that this is the aliens' homeworld (the Borg).
Just some thoughts...
In Shatners book, which I don't reccomend, The Voyager nine probe, not V'ger incountered the borg homeworld. It was damaged and repaired by the borg and launched into space. I don't agree with this as a likley option. That is to say if you take the basic technology and styling behind V'ger and compare it to the borg there is a significant difference. Secondly, as was stated earlier, the borg had no knowledge of the federation prior to the J24 encounter. And thirdly the Ilia probe was ten zillion times more advanced than the standard drone, or even the queen. I say this because she was synthetic, and yet nearly perfect in her compostion. something the borg don't like. They find perfection in the mean between the flesh and the synthetic. Otherwise they would simply have tore data down, and not tried to "perfect" him.
Oh my god.....That means that Donald Sutherland is going to pop up one day!! The horror!:D :DQuote:
Second- The other night at work a thought came to me about the Borg (if you had my job you'd understand completely). Now we've all been assuming that the Borg began as a group of individuals, that decided to augment themselves, willingly, with cybernetics. What if the opposite is true- something along the lines of the movie "Virus".