Just out of curiousity, has anyone got any ideas or suggestions on SPACEDOCK stats for the Ablative Armor Generators seen in the "Endgame" episode of Voyager?
Printable View
Just out of curiousity, has anyone got any ideas or suggestions on SPACEDOCK stats for the Ablative Armor Generators seen in the "Endgame" episode of Voyager?
Since the generators in the show seemed to be mostly extenal and they did not have a very hard time installing them I make them to be size X1.
The effect is to treat the shields as metaphasic.
I realize that may seem like a strange way to represent armor, but I tend to view the armor generators as being holographic, the armor is actually an energy matrix generated off the shields by the armor generators.
At least that's how I explain why they are called generators, and it fits with the kind of tech they have on Star Trek.
Hmm...interesting idea, aelius. OK, let me ask this: How much energy to deploy the armor? Also could you drop shields and still have armor?
One possibility I was thinking of was to treat the armor generator as a single shield generator, bought at normal cost for the protection plus 5 SU for the 720 degree coverage. Deploying the armor would cost 1 power per 5 protection gained (twice the cost of generating a normal shield) and take one round. Once deployed, it would be treated as normal ablative armor. These rules are merely an idea and not fully developed.
Steve, what do you think? Any ideas or suggestions?
No comments from the soapbox? Maybe everyone got scared off by the fish and frog fracas. :D Oh well if you want to do something right...
Ok, here's an idea. Since in "Endgame" ships with the armor did not use shields, I will assume the AAG's are actually modifications to the shield grid. The so-called armor is actually a solidified, skin-tight version of normal deflector shields (maybe using holomatter?)
For SPACEDOCK, I am thinking of this: Normal deflector shields can be converted at a cost of 1/2 x Size SU's per shield generator (for the additional equipment). To generate the armor requires an expenditure of energy equal to the normal cost of generating the shields and requires one turn to fully deploy. Once deployed the armor requires only half the power cost of normal deflector shields to maintain. The resulting suit of armor is treated as a unitary deflector shield with a Protection and Threshold equal to four times its normal shield strength (so a ship with Protection 900 and Threshold 300 shields can generate a suit of armor with Protection 3600 and Threshold 1200 for example). The armor is treated as a normal shield except for the following:
[list=1][*]An opponent cannot shoot through shield junctions (the armor is unitary with no seams)(Exception: an opposing Tactical officer can target an exposed section of the ship like a phaser strip that just fired at a suitable penalty to bypass the armor).[*]The armor does not use frequency modulation and cannot be bypassed using this method.[*]Regenerative shield generators cannot be used to restore points of lost armor.[/list=1]
If the damage to the armor exceeds its protection, the armor collapes and must be restored like a normal shield. Also if a shield generator is destroyed, any armor it currently wears is not affected but any future armor generated loses one-quarter of its Protection and Threshold per generator destroyed.
Okay, there's my idea. What do you think?
Holomatter...nah, Replcated matter...mabie. New Techno-babble...well duh!!!
Looks good, personally I'd increase the power to deploy (2-4 times normal). Also, IF the shields collapse (or when they are damaged) I'd rule they cannot be recharged, it would require actual repair (as per normal Ablative Armor). But other then that, it really looks good. I really like the +1/2 x size rather then trying to make a whole new system, very KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
Other things you might want to include however, is the fact that all the lateral sensors were covered by the armor. This might cause interference with the sensor gain (test penalty), and it takes some extra time to open weapon windows (also might give a penalty, and you can forget about trying to fire on a de-cloaking ship before their shields kick in :eek: ).
Humm, in another 30 or 40 years we might come up with a Regenerative version...:)
Thanks for the reply, Phoenix. I appreciate your input.Yeah I've been thinking of that...the problem being that few ships could generate that level of power. I was thinking along the lines of 1.5 x normal shield cost to deploy the armor.Quote:
..,personally I'd increase the power to deploy (2-4 times normal).
Good point...maybe impose a -1 on all skill rolls involving use of sensors. As for weapons, I'm thinking maybe it takes one round to prepare a suitable "firing apeture", then you can fire next round.Quote:
Other things you might want to include however, is the fact that all the lateral sensors were covered by the armor. This might cause interference with the sensor gain (test penalty), and it takes some extra time to open weapon windows (also might give a penalty, and you can forget about trying to fire on a de-cloaking ship before their shields kick in :D ).
Good point. I thinking of replacing "seconds" on recharge times with minutes or hours, also.Quote:
Also, IF the shields collapse (or when they are damaged) I'd rule they cannot be recharged, it would require actual repair (as per normal Ablative Armor).
The reason I don't go with replicated matter is that the ship would need to carry a lot of matter stocks to form the armor. My thinking is that some form of advanced holotech is used in conjunction with the shield generators to build the armor. I'm also thinking that the modifications needed were made to the shield grid to form the armor's backing.Quote:
Holomatter...nah, Replicated matter...maybe. New Techno-babble...well duh!!!
Anyway, Thanks Phoenix. :)
Holo-Matter, Replcated, something new- it might be a combo of any or all the above. I just don't think Holo-Matter would work as a stand alone defense, after all it is just photons and force fields, no real change from the existing shields.
Oh, and did the Fish and Frog scaire you...heck man, bring about a billion friends, Fish stick and Frog legs are good!
Well as long as the rules work, the rest is only treknobabble. :DQuote:
Originally quoted by Phoenix: Holo-Matter, Replcated, something new- it might be a combo of any or all the above. I just don't think Holo-Matter would work as a stand alone defense, after all it is just photons and force fields, no real change from the existing shields.
"Scared?", Hardly! Remember I'm the guy that bringing the supply ships for the Fish-n-Frog buffet. Remember the thread in Utopia Plantaia "That Damn Fish Redux"? BTW we're gonna need a suitable venue for the buffet. Let's see if Sarge still has the lounge with the organ...
P.S. After taking a look at "Endgame" again, I'm dropping the rule about opening apetures for weapons. In the shot where Voyager fires her aft torpedo, the armor opened up very quickly around the aft tubes, so I'm altering the rule accordingly.
It's still that brief micro-second that might make you miss a clean shot (remember Borg Cubes are the broad side of a barn), and we never did see a phaser, but you'd think they would also be usable (I think I remember a seam there). But hey it's your rules, and as it says in the core book "if you din't like some thing- ignore it. If you think something is missing- make it up."
The design is sounding better every time we refine it though.
Actually, Phoenix, they're Steve Long's rules; I'm just contributing.:D The system design is looking better though. One idea I've been pondering has been the design for a purpose-built system as opposed to a jury-rigged system. Just some vague ideas which need refining though...
As for firing weapons, maybe torpedo tubes are easier to use with this system than phasers (A torpedo tube needs a smaller section of armor to be opened so it can fire)
One possibility is that torpedoes suffer no penalties, but phasers suffer a -1 to your to-hit roll when firing from an armored ship.
Sorry I did not get back to you sooner Hoss but I was away for a while.
Your take on the armor is good but there is one problem, during the borg attack Tuvok was reporting damage to the armor in different quadrants of the ship. As I recall the aft armor was down to just a few percent so a unitary armor generator doesn't cover it.
Since they never used the armor and shields at the same time I tend to think that the shield generators work in concert with the armor generators to create the armor. I explain the increase in effectiveness to metaphasic by saying the armor generators reinforce the shield generators by some technobabble formula which I havn't bothered with yet because the armor will not arrive in the Alpha Quadrant for four more years in my game.
As to the power consumption I would make it an add on to the shield power cost, say the normal shield cost, making it a total of twice the power requirement.
Hope I've given you something to think about.
Good point,aelius. I'll take that into account. Maybe a special version of metaphasic shields with these adjustments:[list=1][*]No shield junctions [*]1.5 x shield cost to generate, Normal shield cost to maintain. (few ships have the capacity to generate 2 x shield energy)[*]Regenerative systems works as for normal shield (stiffening up weak armor).[*]Torpedoes can be fired without penalty, but phaser arrays suffer a -1 penalty to their test roll to hit.[/list=1] How does that sound?
Sounds like the Borg need to assimalate a can-opener :)
But you forgot the -1 penalty to lateral sensors (unless that's been dropped)
Actulaly, I did decide to drop it. My thinking is that when the Armor is deployed, it would be configured to have either areas that are selectively transparent and/or tailored apetures to facilitate the use of sensors. As for weaponry...I'm thinking that weaponry such as disruptors and pulse phasers could be used normally (because of the really small firing apetures needed) while phaser arrays, because of their strip layout, would be more difficult to use. To simulate hitting the apetures I would use the rules for targeting shield junctions, but at a penalty of maybe -2 or -3 to the Test Roll to hit.Quote:
Originally quoted by Phoenix:
But you forgot the -1 penalty to lateral sensors (unless that's been dropped)
I found this article at a TrekTech site. The author gives his explanation on how AAG's work:Certainly an interesting article, don't you think?Quote:
Ablative Armor Generator:
***Ablative armor generator technology is a advanced combination of holocloak technology, energy projection, computer pattern formation and power generation. The result is the formation of a virtual layer of quasisolid ablative armor formed at a predetermined distance from the ship, which has the properties of both high-density type 3 ablative armor and regenerative shielding and is capable of offering several magnitudes of protection above normal shielding, at the cost of a large power drain.
***The technology involves the construction of large omnidirectional holoemitters at key points along the hull; when activated, the beams form a conformal holofield alot like a holocloak`s. At this point energy is pumped into a replicator, capable of creating any matter directly from input energy. A dedicated computer core constructs a pattern of specialized type 3 ablative armor designed to best resist incoming energy; it updates this pattern every 5 seconds. The matter\energy beam is then conducted through the OHD`s, forming a quasisolid layer of energy armor, which is kept close to the hull of the ship via bonding to the SIF field, thereby enhancing both the ship`s structural integrity and the e-armor`s strength.
***There is one significant drawback to this technology; the strength of the e-armor is directly proportional to the energy put into it. So ships with smaller power reserves cannot put up a shield at all. Ships with powerful fusion engines or multiple warp cores would be best for this. On a side note, the size of the ship does factor into the equation for the generator; the power neccesary to cover a tiny shuttlecraft is many times less than that of a starship; even so, all non-essential systems on a fighter or shuttle would have to be shut down for the generator to be activated(this does not include weapons, engines or internal life support).
***Gelfworks had been working on a matter-energy system almost since its inception. It was obvious to the first teams of designers that a armor layer that was capable of being created by the ship and regenerated by its power systems would be an invaluable asset. The problem was, how to do it?
***Initially, research focused on a combination of transporter annular confinement beams and replicator matricies. This proved to be far too fragile and power-intensive to be of any use to even the most tech-hungry CO. It was reluctantly shelved in late 2396, with only intermittent work done on it by newcomers who thought they could solve the perplexing problem. Then, of all things, one Harry Barclay, the son of a obsessive holodeck user, came to work for the company, and hit upon the solution instantly: holocloaks.
***Holocloaks had been introduced fairly recently as a less energy-intensive alternative to a true cloaking device. They were essentially big holodeck generators that projected out instead of in. And that was the key; holodeck OHD`s were tied into replicator systems on the micromechanical level, enabling them to normally project matter inside of a holodeck for the user. Barclay used this to perfect his test generator. He first used a replicator to disassemble a piece of Gelfwork`s most advanced ablative armor alloy, then fed the data to a specially designed isolinear computer. It failed, destabilizing due to destructive coherence. He went to a storage closet and got a small bioneural pack and plugged it in, and low and behold, it worked! The test target was protected from the brunt of three type-3 thaser rifle beams for over a minute before the nanofusion cell ran out of fuel. It seems that the pattern-recognizing abilities of the bioneural pack could compensate for the interference patterns before they destroyed the shield.
***Eager to size up the technology, a holodeck was stripped of its OHD`s, tied into a shuttles impulse engine and sent on a test flight. Drones using type VIII phasers could not penetrate the armor. The technology was condensed down into a workable generator, and showed to the Federation on SD 240106.
OK Steve, since you asked nicely...I asked before so I'll ask again...has you or anyone else over there got an idea on SPACEDOCK stats for the Ablative Armor Generators from "Endgame"? As for payment...no wife-swapping for me (I'm single), but I do have some blood...:D :D :D
No, I don't have any stats for that system. I don't expect to write it up until I get around to prepping the next iteration of Spacedock.
Steve Long
Thanx, Steve. BTW if you need ideas for the generators, we discussed a few in this thread, so feel free to borrow or steal...:D