The Once and Future King

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11-06-2001, 07:48 AM
ghosty

The Once and Future King

This idea been bouncing around my head for a while now so I thought I'll get everyone's input as I try to flesh it out.

Its a story arc which involves the reutrn of King Arthur (possibly as the PC Captain of the ship).

The first scenario is one I titled the Cyrstal Cave where the PCs find Merlin in suspended animation in the crystal cave Nimue stuck him in all those centuries ago.

The return of Merlin sparks a series of events in which the incarnation of all the great heroes and villans begin to appear but with distorted memories of who they are and their purpose.

The next scenario is called the Sword in the Stone where the PCs set off in search of the Sword Excalibur which would rectify many of the problems brought about by the reutrn of Merlin and others.

The Grail Quest is a mutli-parter in which the PCs are tested by blood, fire, water, earth and air before they gain the ultimate prize the Holy Grail.

The return of the Holy Grail also leads to the Fields of Camlann when a apocalyptic war breaks out and the PCs are the only ones who can stop it but in the end, can the Captain avoid his fate, dying on the Field of Camlann.
11-06-2001, 08:12 AM
Dan Stack

Two immediate issues I'd make sure I had settled...

1) Do your players like King Arthur? :) If so, then they'd probably really enjoy it. If not...

2) It seems a little heavily scripted, with only one possible ending.
11-06-2001, 08:21 AM
John Raynor

Re: The Once and Future King

Quote:

Originally posted by ghosty
This idea been bouncing around my head for a while now so I thought I'll get everyone's input as I try to flesh it out.

Its a story arc which involves the reutrn of King Arthur (possibly as the PC Captain of the ship).

Cool concept!
However, how are you going to handle the spiritual/mythological
"angle" of the story? The obvious way to do it would be to
re-define everything in "Eric von Daniken-ish" terms, with "Merlin"
as some kind of mysterious alien being (rather like "Apollo" in the
T. O. S. episode "Who Mourns for Adonis?") and Excalibur as a
piece of techno-babble hardware. Personally, as a player, I'd feel
cheated by such an approach. I'd much prefer keeping things
mysterious. Slight concessions to the general technophilia of the
"Star Trek" universe could serve as sugar-coating, to make the
difficult pill of genuine mysticism go down a little easier, but
ultimately the players would have to accept the fact they are
involved in a Mystery (with a very large capital "M") which they
won't be able to comprehend and resolve through technology.
11-06-2001, 08:38 AM
ghosty

John:
Oh the spiritual/mystical angle...this is a one of those epic stories without a rationale explanations. This is a Mythical Mystery with two "M"s

Dan:
1) Who doesn't like King Arthur? At least in my group its almost a religion.

2) It doesn't have to end the same way...being PCs they'll figure a way out...they always do...
11-06-2001, 08:45 AM
C5

It is possible IMHO to instill a certain sense of Mystery while keeping the usual treknological background.
Think Q, the Prophets or the Traveller, for instance : they fit in the Trekverse, however, understanding them is far beyond any technological explanation.
The Prophets/Wormhole aliens duality is a good example for that : Merlin may be called an alien or whatever... but that would depend on your beliefs.
And you can use Excalibur like the Orbs : not reducing it to a technobabblin-gummy, but keeping a sort of "technological Mystery" around it.
11-06-2001, 08:47 AM
C5

Damn, too slow one again... ghosty answered while I was typing... rendering my post pointless....
11-06-2001, 08:55 AM
Lancer

Re: Re: The Once and Future King

Quote:

Originally posted by John Raynor
Cool concept!

However, how are you going to handle the spiritual/mythological
"angle" of the story? The obvious way to do it would be to
re-define everything in "Eric von Daniken-ish" terms, with "Merlin"
as some kind of mysterious alien being (rather like "Apollo" in the
T. O. S. episode "Who Mourns for Adonis?") and Excalibur as a
piece of techno-babble hardware. Personally, as a player, I'd feel
cheated by such an approach. I'd much prefer keeping things mysterious

I'll have to second that. IMHO keeping the mythical flavor of the Arthurian legends in a StarTrek setting is going to be very difficult.

One way to get around it would be to explain Merlin, Arthur and the rest as comming from a parallel dimension where magic is real (call it Avalon if you like).
Occasionaly a door opens between their world and ours and allowed a certain exchange of knowledge between the two dimensions. That would explain why there is the myth of King Arthur, without leaving any proven facts in our world. During the last few centuries these "faerie pathways" have opened only on very rare occasions, but now in the 24th century it happens again and with Starfleets sensors and knowledge of extra-dimensional phenomena one of the doors is finaly discovered and a team sent to investigate.
Once on the other side (the Crystal Cave) the team does something that weakens the barriers between the two worlds and people and objects (maybe complete landscapes) from Avalon are transplanted to our earth (the heroes and villains from our legends).
Since the barrier between the dimensions is weaker than usual these people can use magic even in our universe, something that would be otherwise impossible.

With that you could explain Merlin & Excalibur and their powers with magic and avoid a technobabble explanation.
And it makes it more personal for the players: They did something to cause this situation and now they have to set it straight.

Hmm, maybe the Crystal Cave is a sort of barrier between the dimensions. Nimue imprisoned Merlin there, because it was the only place where he could draw on neither of both dimensions to power his magic, leaving him helpless. (At such interdimensional places time-runs at a different speed, of course ;). That way Merlin was in a sort of stasis - for him only minutes passed, while on earth 2000 years went by.)
That could be used to explain another thing: The less frequent occurance of inter-dimensional doorways to Avalon in the past few centuries. To imprisson Merlin Nimue had to strengthen this barrier and with that reduced the possibility for natural pathways to show up.

Ohh well, I think I could go and on with possibilities, but I guess you get the picture by now. ;):)
11-06-2001, 09:17 AM
Highway Hoss

ghosty, if I may make a suggestion...pick up the graphic novel Camelot 3000 by DC Comics. The story uses the same basis as your idea (the return of King Arthur to a future earth). You should find some good ideas form your campaign there.
11-06-2001, 03:52 PM
ghosty

Quote:

Originally posted by Highway Hoss
ghosty, if I may make a suggestion...pick up the graphic novel Camelot 3000 by DC Comics. The story uses the same basis as your idea (the return of King Arthur to a future earth). You should find some good ideas form your campaign there.

Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. It's probably the source of this whole idea in the first place.
11-06-2001, 03:52 PM
Robert Lai

Re: Once and Future King

As well as Mike Barr's Camelot 3000, also check Guy Gavriel Kay's 'The Fionavar Tapestry' (though some of the titles are temporarily out of print and may be hard to find). Kay spins an Arthurian parallel with an alternate ending that is just one possibility.

The story can be made planetary or Federation-wide.

On a planetary perspective, the crew is faced with the Prime Directive dilemma. They can be brought in by a third person (Merlin) and perhaps fulfill some ancient prophecy ... a twist being that the Captain, who appears to be lining up with the Arthur role, isn't Arthur at all. (Or, make him/her part of the Lancelot/Guinevere/Arthur triangle.)

Federation-wide, there will be more political realities to interfere. Imagine the Klingons being asked to acknowledge a non-Klingon as a King, on top of which his entire chivalric code is at odds with the Way of the Warrior. The time for kings and holy quests have passed, some will argue. Let us not squander resources on dusty myths!

Some other alternatives include making the whole arc an allegory for another conflict. Perhaps we only see it in Arthurian terms because that's all we're capable of seeing -- the true battle is on an infinite level across multiple realities.

And frankly, the Borg Queen would make an interesting Morgan LeFay, able to summon an army of darkness (no, leave Bruce Campbell out of it!) and subvert even the purest of warriors. (In that sense, Picard could easily have been a Lancelot figure, fallen because he '... wasn't good enough, strong enough!')

Bob
11-06-2001, 04:05 PM
ghosty

Re: Re: Once and Future King

Quote:

Originally posted by Robert Lai
As well as Mike Barr's Camelot 3000, also check Guy Gavriel Kay's 'The Fionavar Tapestry' (though some of the titles are temporarily out of print and may be hard to find). Kay spins an Arthurian parallel with an alternate ending that is just one possibility.

I'll look it up. Thanks.

[QUOTE] The story can be made planetary or Federation-wide.
[QUOTE]

Oh this is definately planetary in scale.

Quote:

On a planetary perspective, the crew is faced with the Prime Directive dilemma. They can be brought in by a third person (Merlin) and perhaps fulfill some ancient prophecy ... a twist being that the Captain, who appears to be lining up with the Arthur role, isn't Arthur at all. (Or, make him/her part of the Lancelot/Guinevere/Arthur triangle.)

That could be interesting but a little limiting IMHO.

Quote:

Federation-wide, there will be more political realities to interfere. Imagine the Klingons being asked to acknowledge a non-Klingon as a King, on top of which his entire chivalric code is at odds with the Way of the Warrior. The time for kings and holy quests have passed, some will argue. Let us not squander resources on dusty myths!

Isn't politics the most fun bit of all. The Klingons respect a strong warrior and face it, isn't the legend of Khaless vaguely Arthurian...the Sword of Khaless is Excalibur...same story...different setting. The idea is for the Arthur figure to call on the Arthurian myth of all races in the hope of uniting the galaxy against the evil that is to come.

[QUOTE] Some other alternatives include making the whole arc an allegory for another conflict. Perhaps we only see it in Arthurian terms because that's all we're capable of seeing -- the true battle is on an infinite level across multiple realities.[QUOTE]

May unduly complicate matters. Good thought though...

Quote:

And frankly, the Borg Queen would make an interesting Morgan LeFay, able to summon an army of darkness (no, leave Bruce Campbell out of it!) and subvert even the purest of warriors. (In that sense, Picard could easily have been a Lancelot figure, fallen because he '... wasn't good enough, strong enough!')

Good idea...this one I can use.
11-07-2001, 02:43 AM
Highway Hoss

Quote:

Originally posted by ghosty:
Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. It's probably the source of this whole idea in the first place.

Oh well....:( :( :(
11-07-2001, 07:35 AM
ghosty

Re: Re: Re: The Once and Future King

Quote:

Originally posted by Lancer

I'll have to second that. IMHO keeping the mythical flavor of the Arthurian legends in a StarTrek setting is going to be very difficult.

One way to get around it would be to explain Merlin, Arthur and the rest as comming from a parallel dimension where magic is real (call it Avalon if you like).

I'd rather not have a rationale explanation for what is happening. Its a question of faith, to take up the mettle of being Arthur and his trusty cohorts to battle evil "Borg Queen" Morgan LeFey is a leap of faith. Merlin is there to guide them towards that leap of faith but it will be for the PCs to understand that they have a higher destiny and there are just things out there that defy rationalization.

Think about it Q and co. have powers which can only be described as magic and you don't see anyone trying to analyze how they are so powerful...they just are.

This is going to be a rather difficult series of adventures to firstly conceptualize and then design around the techo universe of Trek...but if everything goes well...
11-07-2001, 04:32 PM
calguard66

Re: Re: Re: The Once and Future King

Quote:

Originally posted by Lancer

I'll have to second that. IMHO keeping the mythical flavor of the Arthurian legends in a StarTrek setting is going to be very difficult.

One way to get around it would be to explain Merlin, Arthur and the rest as comming from a parallel dimension where magic is real (call it Avalon if you like).

I like your idea, but the best way around it is not to explain anything. Any technology sufficiently advanced will appear indistinguishable from magic... or perhaps be magic.
11-07-2001, 04:53 PM
ghosty

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Once and Future King

Quote:

Originally posted by calguard66

I like your idea, but the best way around it is not to explain anything. Any technology sufficiently advanced will appear indistinguishable from magic... or perhaps be magic.

I was wondering when Clarke's Law would be brought into this...but I agree with Calguard, don't explain why, there's no requirement for it...all the PCs have to do is BELIEVE.
11-09-2001, 11:42 PM
Christian

Well, if it's good enough for JMS to make into a series, guess its good enough for a Trek RPG.

The concept did spring up an interesting notion for me, though - to do it Trek-style the best way would be to do so as an alien race - let your characters judge as outside observers first, if they want to be brought into it later that's fine.

Now they've done this with the Kahless concept in TNG (heck they even hunted for the Klingon Excalibur in DS9), but how about a little closer to home? A legendary return by another UFP race could cause all sorts of reprecussions at home - how about the Andorian's Arthur returning at the end of the Dominion War? Saving the planet against a last desperate push by the Jem Hadar? With a Vulcan mystic at his side? What would the waves of nationalism among an agressive people who believe the UFP is too pacifistic to survive in an ever threatening galaxy?

All sorts of tie ins here - the Klingons embrace the Andorians as brothers, to the point where an entire Klingon house pledges fealty. A beautiful Betazoid diplomat goes to talk the Andorian monarch from his course, then falls in love with the rash king. A human starfleet captain with a string of victories to numerous to count joins the cause after being defeated by the Andorian.

The Romulans point to the Andorian as an example of the growing threat caused by Federation dominance. His presence upsets the peace with the Empire, and sends relations back to their cold war days.

Section 31 plays the myth angle all the way, chosing to champion the Andorian because while they beleive him doomed to fail, they believe his presence will in the long term strengthen the Federation.

The Andorian monarch seizes upon the Maquis example as a case where the Federation morales put the good of the many over the few - surviving ex-Maquis members begin flocking to his cause, and he gains support from Bajor after a prophet experience....

Lots and lots of possibilities - and you could place the crew straight in the middle of it, and have the continuing mystery draw them in.

Is he ordained by a greater race, such as Sisko was? Is he an ordinary man who is a great politician, and who has seized upon the myth for his own purposes? Perhaps a genetically enhanced Andorian, in the nature of Khan, who is so charismatic he threatens to upset the entire order of the Federation. Or an outside creation, used to sow dissent among the Federation to weaken it for further attack. Perhaps a founder? A Borg tool, actually brought back from the past using their time travel, then enhanced with Nanotechnology?

Lots of cool stories here. Great thing about Trek is there are so many old stories you can tie in. Politics, mystery, intrigue, battle, the fate of empires....
11-10-2001, 02:51 AM
ghosty

Not a bad idea Chris...but I'm thrusting our PCs into the main roles except for Merlin (for good reason) rather than trying to figure out what is going on. But of course this thread is to get feedback on how I can develop the story before it begins...I might change it to your version...
11-11-2001, 02:22 AM
Christian

Ghosty - here's an interesting idea - you could do both!

The characters are outside observers or got drug along on the story in a plot hook.

The characters are also the other members of the Round Table, but don't know it.

The Monarch could be looking for his knights - which happens to be the PCs.... perhaps reincarnated into this time ala Camelot 3000.4

Or he could just be mad and deluded - who the hell could tell?

It would be ambitious, but you really could get the best of both worlds there.

Please excuse the pun.

Anyway, I love brainstorming plot ideas. Hope any of that helped. If not, heck, I might have cause to use it someday. Its a win-win. ;)
11-11-2001, 05:47 AM
ghosty

Sorry Chris not what I was looking for.

The PCs won't be taking the roles as observers or even followers, they have to lead, they are Arthur, Lancelot, Guinevere and all the other key characters except Merlin who is more a guide leading them with cyrptic clues but never any direct information.