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I am running some blue book sessions and came to the realization that I have no idea how valuable a slip, bar or brick of latinum is.
Can anyone help me?
How many strips to a bar, bars to a brick?
What would be like 25,000$ in Latinum?
I am talking ballpark on that, but you get the idea. If someone wants a bribe I need to know what means what.
Thanks in advance
According to the handy dandy Encyclopedia, vol 2.
100 slips = 1 strip
20 strips = 1 bar
As to the number of bars in a brick, I don't know that any ep ever covered it.
But as for how valuable a single slip is in Earth Currency, thre is only one answer.
There is no Earth Currency...
Not much help, but its canon.
If you want to know how much a slip of latinum is equivalent to our standards of the 20th century. Then look to find out what the gold exchange is worth... And the decide on ust how much gold form the brick, bar or slip...
Whatever thats worth, minus some $ as the assayer is likely to determine the brick/bar/strip or slip is not at full value due to the inert liquid at its core...
What I mean is if someone asks fior 30 slips of latinum is that a lot, a little?
10 bars?
etc...
The average gold bar is 400 troy ounces. Gold closed Friday (NY time) at $274.40 US.
If you accept that a bar in US 21st century is the same as a bar in Trek, then
1 bar = $274.40
1 strip = $13.72
1 silp= $0.14 (rounded)
So what's 30 slips? $4.20 US
10 bars? $2744
$25000 = 91 bars, 2 strips, 15.7 slips.
Brunt's 500 bars for Quark's vaccuum dessicated remains? 500 bars or $137,200.00
Quark was definitely worth more dead than alive! :D
But that's only if you compare "Trek bars" to "real life bars". Whether that's a valid argument or not is for someone wiser than me to discern! :D
According to DS9 RPG Quark has wealth +3 which puts him in the 501-5000 bars of gpl. Near the high end I would think, he was a successful small business owner.
Exchange rates (main gov'ts)
Bajoran Lita 0.15
Cardassian Lek 0.17
Federation Credit 0.01
Klingon Darsek 0.5-1
Romulan T'chak 1.7
Tholian Doleen 1.5
Note: values in slips of gold pressed latinum.
Isn't there bricks in there somewhere?
Slip-Strip-Bar-Brick or is it Brick-Bar ?????????????
Another point is when O'Brien and Bashir play Tongo they have about 9 slips or strips.
Most likely the cash they could spare between them. And Bashir uses about 3 to gamble with.
And doesn't a couple of slips get you a really good drink at Quarks?
As you said, that only in direct comparrison...Quote:
Originally posted by Perrryyy
The average gold bar is 400 troy ounces. Gold closed Friday (NY time) at $274.40 US.
If you accept that a bar in US 21st century is the same as a bar in Trek, then...
But that's only if you compare "Trek bars" to "real life bars". Whether that's a valid argument or not is for someone wiser than me to discern! :D
But then you need to take into account that the value in a slip, strip, bar or brick is the latinum liquid in suspension within the next to worthless gold casing...
Just look at Quarks reaction when he gets the cargo module full of Gold and not gold pressed latinum.
But on the whole they always were particularly vague on the matter thanks to Gene's 'No Money in the future' clause... So in the end its down to the individual Narrator as to the ultimate value... But as previously stated the equivalent values have been posted above as seen in the DS9 corebook.
Okay so if Quark for example were going to make someone pay him for information, and I wanted it to seem like the "equivalent" of a guy today saying $25,000, would 30 or so bars be a good number?
And for the love of god, do not refer me to the DS9 rule book. :)
You could try this link :
http://www.geocities.com/willbswift/equipmentlist.html
This site presents a rather extensive price chart, based as much as possible on canon sources. This could help you to have an idea of the cost of money ;) in 24th century.
Thank you C5 for the plug! (It saved me the trouble)
Captain Zymmer said:
“I am running some blue book sessions and came to the realization that I have no idea how valuable a slip, bar or brick of latinum is. Can anyone help me?”
I’d recommend http://www.geocities.com/willbswift/costchart2.html
It has a lot of info on conversion of Federation Credits to various other Trek currencies.
Captain Zymmer said:
“How many strips to a bar, bars to a brick?”
According to the LUG DS9 Core book there are 20 bars to a brick.
Captain Zymmer said:
“What would be like 25,000$ in Latinum?”
My friends and me use the conversion $1.00 = 100 federation credits = 1 slip of Latinum. This means that quark’s dabo girl paycheck (140,000 credits a month) is about $330.00 per week. And a night with a pricy whore (20,000 credits) is $200.00. Of course it also means that a tricorder costs $.02 but that’s where the “moneyless” society comes in. Most items (see my chart) are so cheap that the government can afford to pay for all of them.
So…
1 credit = 1 cent
1 slip = 1 dollar
1 strip = 100 dollars
1 bar = 2,000 dollars
1 brick = 40,000 dollars
Captain Zymmer said:
“I am talking ballpark on that, but you get the idea. If someone wants a bribe I need to know what means what.”
Bribing Quark to keep his mouth shut cost 2,400,000 credits ($24,000.00).
Hope this helps! :)
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And just in case I forgot to mention it
Thank you!
:D
Wen I was GMing the late 90s we debated wether that 500-5000 bares was 2-20 milion or 5-50m. acounting for the intervening years a bar wold be (In $ summer 2016) 5000$-13000$ depending on the translation. a strip wold be 250$-650$ and a slip wold be$ 2.50-$6.50Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom
We used $0.50 (.60-.65 now) for value of a Lita and $7 (8-9 now) for a T'ckak value. We never fixes values for the Darsec, Mitondrium, Lateral, or federation Credit. We used no other currencies in setting.
I'be a;ways assumed that a Federation credit was equivalent to one dollar. This would make a slip worth 100 dollars, which seems a bit too rich for my tastes, so I knocked the value of a strip down to 10 credits, effectively up-valuing everything on this list by a factor of 10. Your mileage may definitely vary, which is perfectly OK, but that's what works for me.
Given no sub unites to the credit and other pricing elements in TNG I wold find a $1 credits wold be nonfunctionally high. The first time I herd the dabate was at a lounch party for season 3 of TNG. Older fans almost came to blows when 3 of them disputed the consensus that a federation credit must be no more than a dime. The debate had been raging for several merits with about about hafe valuing as a dime, and most of the rest split unevenly between penny and dime. Thats when the individualizes suggested a quarter. Thats when the chant of "fans only" began with people pushing them out of the party. When I ask what had happened I was informed that 300 credits a foot for fabric in "encounter at farpoint" being "Ill take the hole bolt" was incompatible with 25 cents since it wold mean 225$ a yard for fabric being cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton
Its 9 strips, or 90,000 federation credits for comparison we know a USN Lieutenant erns between 4500 and 10000 UD dollars a year. As for brick vs bar we get no exchange rate from cannon (as oppose to the 20 and 100 from Quark) but the props for a brick are bigger than for a bar for whatever thats worth,Quote:
Originally Posted by SIR SIG
ID use numbers like 3 bares or 5 baresQuote:
Originally Posted by Captain Zymmer
I break the credit down into decicreds and centicreds. I'm basing my evaluation of the credit at a buck on the price of the tribbles in The Trouble With Tribbles. Canon trumps game info, IMNSHO...
This reminds me some discussion we had in my current gaming group when playing AD&D and trying to get an equivalent on what a gold coin (or silver, copper, etc) is worth in current currency. The bottom line was that it was almost impossible to establish a direct equivalence, since the relative value of goods can change a lot over time depending on the technology, the culture, and various other parameters. I expect for instance that, in Trek, a lot of manufactured goods (as opposed to replicated) would get the same increase in price as that we witness nowadays for hand-made (as opposed to manufactured).
I also always assumed that some of the Federation most powerful computers were used to keep track of the change rate with currencies from other powers and establish the value of the credit depending on the overall wealth of the Federation.
the only cannon credit price I have been able to find is season 1 episode 1 TNG. The aforementioned 300 credits a foot for fabric. We also have Hagath's coment about the federation credit being "the smallest unit of currency of any civilization I've met"Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton
I can't find that line in the script.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntyCrist
Here's an excerpt from The Trouble With Tribbles, showing that an exchange rate of $1.00 to the Federation Credit makes more sense than $0.01. Even for an unknown pet of dubious pedigree a cent is absolutely ridiculous.
JONES: You're a difficult man to reach, but I have something from the far reaches of the galaxy. Surely you want
(from yet another pocket, the trader pulls a what looks like a ball of fluff.)
BARMAN: Not at your price.
UHURA: What is it? Is it alive? May I hold it?
(Jones puts it in her hand and it starts purring)
UHURA: Oh, it's adorable. What is it?
JONES: What is it? Why, lovely lady, it's a tribble.
UHURA: A tribble?
JONES: Only the sweetest creature known to man, excepting, of course, your lovely self.
UHURA: Oh, it's purring. Listen, it's purring.
JONES: It's only saying that it likes you.
UHURA: Are you selling them?
BARMAN: That's what we're trying to decide right now.
JONES: My friend, 10 credits apiece is a very reasonable price. Now you can see for yourself how much the lovely little lady appreciates the finer things.
BARMAN: One credit apiece.
CHEKOV: He won't bite, will he?
JONES: Sir, transporting harmful animals from one planet to another is against regulations, or weren't you aware of that? Besides, tribbles have no teeth.
BARMAN: All right. I'll double my offer 2 credits.
JONES: Twice nothing is still nothing.
UHURA: If you're not going to take him, I'm going to take him. I think he's cute.
BARMAN: Four credits.
JONES: Is that an offer or a joke?
BARMAN: That's my offer.
JONES: That's a joke.
BARMAN: Five?
JONES: You're an honest man. I'll tell you what I'm going to do I'm going to lessen my price to eight and a half credits.
BARMAN: You're talking yourself out of a deal, friend. Six credits. Not a credit more.
JONES: Seven and a half. Seven? All right, you robber, six credits.
I think that, if the writers had any consistent idea of what the equivalent of a credit was worth, we'd had read it by now.
Too true. Unfortunately, during the production of TNG, Paramount was disinclined to hire anyone who evidenced being a fan of Star Trek. This lightened up with the examples and influence of Mike Okuda, Doug Drexler and notable others. Those writers who were also fans had to keep it under wraps.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King
I mean, technically the only official creative-side statement about credits is from Roddenberry, who said "They're stupid and don't exist," so...
Yeah, well, the Great Bird said a lot of dumb things, like he didn't want any familiar aliens in TNG, like Vulcans or Klingons. Roddenberry was very much like Stan Lee, who would make off-hand comments that people would take as gospel, but not remember them and later contradict himself. The simple fact is, he had no real ideas about economics, but a lot of half-baked, not-well-thought-through, knee-jerk opinions.
It does point to the underlying issue, which is that there is no way you can derive an consistent answer on that matter from the dialogue of the show. Anyone defining or desiring credits in an RPG context might as well start with whole cloth.
Whatever the case may be with official values or lack thereof for a Federation Credit, in the FASA game it is stated in the first edition of Trader Captains and Merchant Princes (page 14, immediately above the heading Price List), that the Credit in that game was just a bit less than a 1983 US dollar. Take that for what it's worth - YMMV.
It does bring up the question of what kind of pricing considerations exist in a post-scarcity economy.
We're beginning to see something of this with "organic" and "artisanal" foods and items. There is a sizeable portion of the populace who, it seems, will pay a premium for things perceived to be natural or hand made. In Trek, there are those who eschew replicated foods, like Picard's mother, or who value a hand made meal, like all of Joseph Sisko's customers, as well as those who value items from developing worlds, like Beverly with the Bandi cloth. Sure, the general populace is obviously content with free replicated food and clothing, but there are connoisseurs and collectors, so there will always be some sort of market economy. Picard is a ivory tower intellectual who claims people have outgrown the need for possessions, but note that even he has his non-replicated saddle and his Ressikan flute (which points up that he is actually an elitist hypocrite).
Yes, the economy is arguably post-scarcity/post-capitalist, but there obviously continues to be a need for some means of exchange.
I have wondered which distributors the Picard family vineyards deal with.
I'm assuming the world transporter network makes it as simple as Fed-Ex deliveries.
But like, do they warehouse and ship it themselves, or is that handled by another organization? If someone wants some Picard family wine, do they contact the Picards themselves, or a Ministry of Agriculture office?
I would envision some sort of co-op between the local or regional wine producers to warehouse and ship the wines.
Given, as you said, transporters, that co-op could probably be global.