Is "Enterprise" ......Star Trek?
Hey all
Ok you all probably are thinking "oh no not one of these guys again" But I think it should be brought up now..... Since it now is printed in black and white......is this a typo?....or is it now truly time for me to dispose and despise Star Trek all together?
I love Startrek, I have always been a trek fan since I was 13 years old...and I concider myself to be a "by the book kinda guy" Also I am proud to call myself a trekkie dispite the crude inconsidering remarks of small minded people.
However when my friends told me of this "New Series" and the overall look and rumors that "Enterprise" wasnt like any startrek show they had ever seen.. I kept an open mind and when it aired I watched a few shows. It wasnt long when Anger and questions began to swell because of all the inconsistancies that arose, I then proceeded to stop watching the programs and only then began taping all the programs that currently are wrong and cant typically have a place in "Real StarTrek" such as Original Series , NTG, DS-9, Voyager. It is these shows that are truly and deservingly have the right to call themselves "StarTrek"
Now I buy this RPG only to find on page 213 of the new Rpg players guide of Star Trek . It talks about the Launching of the Enterprise NX-01 ......After rigerous research..and arguements that have lasted since this razzin frazzle show started, the arguements are about to resurface all over again ...being a game master is hard enough thankyou .....but now I'm going to have to explain to my group ..(while some in my group like this new show) why they will not ever see a series in that era..(god they should have stopped after Voyger or did somthing in the movie era!) then the fight will be on....how are we as game masters supposed to make this game fun when all we are going to do is fight cause the "Enterprise" series is wrong? but some of the players wanna play that era.....Like I said earlier I did reaserch and I have discovered that infact "Enterprise" cant be cannon ...it just Cant!!!!!
I know there are people out there that like this show ( some of my friends included).... and all the power to you ...but the show isnt Cannon. There are too many inconsistancies in this series and even then do not coincide with the time line, or coincide with story line or technology wise. This Series Makes me Very Angry and now I need confermation that "Enterprise" is now considered to be cannon and/or Truly part of the Star Trek time line, or part of Star Trek in general . If it is I'd like and explanation to why it should be .
People are trying to tell me "this is what happened before Original Series...... you cant rewrite the bible. The Old Series is the "Bible" ...It's like saying ok ....now the bible has been out for centuries now and this is how it is written...ummm lets make a new bible and write what happens before there was....the creation of the universe....You Cant do that!!!!!! Why you ask? because the story has been written already!...everything else written before this is B.S. and therefore not Cannon. And thats what Roddenberry wanted thats how he wrote it that is how it is...and that being ...the Old Series and the stories that told within and after that are cannon...and is known as the " Bible"
That is my 2 cents...maybe more
Ok, dude, you've got my blood up now...
Seriously ;) while I can see your point, Korga, I have to respectfully disagree with most of what you've said. No name calling (honest!), and I certainly won't slag off your spelling! About 90% of board posters on any board make regular errors, and being an occasional proofreader, it really jumps out, so I just learn to grin and bear it :) I'm sorry AllenS, but you were a little out of order! ;)
Before I start, I should point out that I like Enterprise, much more than I liked Voyager. While there have been what I see as continuity errors (I can be just as irritated by this) I've learnt to put up with it. There's much about the show that commends itself to me, and it's a personal opinion, yes, but I find it to be much more "Trek" than DS9 (which I loved). Trek to me is about exploration, standing alone against the unknown, overcoming obstacles in the most optimistic manner possible and races co-operating to meet those goals. Enterprise has stuck pretty close to this.
First of all, I have to agree with Ineti and a couple of the others - if you don't like Enterprise, ignore it. Don't watch it, and don't use it in your game. Just because something is mentioned in the book doesn't mean you have to use it - it's your game, after all!
Whether Enterprise can be considered canon or not is an issue for the show's producers (I believe their position is "if it was on the screen as live action, it's canon, otherwise it ain't"). Unfortunately, we can only decide what we want to use. In my case, I rewrote ST5 and Voyager substantially, and I ignore various elements of episodes I don't like. I also pretty much ignore anything from novels, tech manuals, fan sites and games - UNLESS I like it.
You say Roddenberry would have dropped Enterprise at the first error, I have to disagree. I honestly don't think that when Roddenberry first created Trek, he expected it to last as long and become as popular as it did - there are enough continuity clashes in TOS alone to render the whole thing untenable if you take every word as literal.
Your list of "continuity errors" is interesting... I shall quote before commenting if you don't mind:
"The meeting of Klingons was is space...not earth" - I'd like to know your source on this. All we know about the first meeting is that it was not a good one and led to a century of war (Picard). I don't believe it's ever been stated on screen when or where this was. And while "Broken Bow" may seem to violate the bad meeting concept, later episodes seem to indicate that the Klingons certainly didn't appreciate it (I think this is due to Klingon concepts of honour, I commented extensively on this elsewhere).
"why in Gods Green Earth would Christopher Pike use Lasers in the "Cage" when they had the "Phase Pistol" " - interesting question. My argument would be that the term laser was only used in "the Cage" and that it is easier to consider that episode in error (it's one episode, and a lot of other elements were changed before TOS began for real). I can't remember who here suggested it, but another idea is that the phase pistol was produced before practical hand-held lasers, and that those were more effective when they first appeared a couple of decades later. Later phasers may be based in the "phase pistol principle."
"I dont know about you but wasnt the first long range Explorer ship the SS Valiant?....." - sorry but that's definitely never been stated. IIRC, the Valiant was the first ship to reach the galactic barrier, so it was just the furthest out. It may have been one of the first... (Oh, Evan - there are two Valiants - you're thinking of the Defiant-class USS Valiant ;) )
"But I ask you now has TNG, DS-9 or Voyager ever gone to the exstent of this much change without explaining it? I think not." - hmm, not sure off the top of my head about TNG and DS9, but Voyager completely rewrote first contact with the Borg. It was established (TNG) that the Enterprise D made first contact in 2365, with the next contact not happening until 2367. In Voyager, 7 of 9 was the daughter of scientists who had been researching the Borg at close range for some time. Anneka Hansen was about 6 at the time of assimilation, 7 is obviously in her late twenties and Voyager first meets her in 2375 - I'm sure you can do the maths! There's also the small matter of the Eugenics War which devastated a large chunk of Earth in 1996 - I didn't see much evidence of it in "Future Tense." These are changes far greater than Enterprise has managed yet...
"same applies to all Startrek materials and if Roddenberry's approval isnt on it ... it should be scrapped." - err, neither DS9 nor Voyager had Roddenberry's approval. ISTR DS9 didn't get the go ahead until after he was out of the hot seat.
My point is, really, that's just entertainment. If you don't like something for your game, change it! After all, nothing you create is canon either! ;)
Re: Ok, dude, you've got my blood up now...
Quote:
Originally posted by Imagus
Before I start, I should point out that I like Enterprise, much more than I liked Voyager. While there have been what I see as continuity errors (I can be just as irritated by this) I've learnt to put up with it. There's much about the show that commends itself to me, and it's a personal opinion, yes, but I find it to be much more "Trek" than DS9 (which I loved). Trek to me is about exploration, standing alone against the unknown, overcoming obstacles in the most optimistic manner possible and races co-operating to meet those goals. Enterprise has stuck pretty close to this.
later. Later phasers may be based in the "phase pistol principle."
"I dont know about you but wasnt the first long range Explorer ship the SS Valiant?....." - sorry but that's definitely never been stated. IIRC, the Valiant was the first ship to reach the galactic barrier, so it was just the furthest out. It may have been one of the first... (Oh, Evan - there are two Valiants - you're thinking of the Defiant-class USS Valiant ;) )
"
that's a great description ( far more accurate than mine ) what in my eyes is trek. Union among the people and exploration.
Concerning the phaser thing. There is the episode where the Cage is included into an ordinary episode of TOS with Kirk and all ( Do not know the English title, the German one is translated: Spock at court ). how do they call the 'ph/laser' in that episode in the 'old' scenes?
Oh and of course I just mistyped the date I meant 2069. There is something about it on startrek.com, even a picture.
and to correct my self, those who do not like Enterprise, gol boldy where no man has gone before, either - its just another way ;)
we see DS9 in "Ro Laren"?!
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh really?
I make fun of Enterprise too
this is the same schlock that was given as the Motionless Voyager
"It's Star Trek LUV it!"
ewwwwww i can't do that
i cant do that with the tos movies either
scotty, uhura, pavel, sulua and mccoy where just cardboard characters
so much could have been done with that series
same with enterprise
give me the Daedulus CLASS
Not 'forcing', but…(my POV)
Hey Korg, don’t back down; you were just getting’ good :D
Seriously people, I know this guy in RL and well…we share nearly the same view on this ‘Akiraprise-mess’ (I’d use other words, but self-censoring prevents it:)). The reason why Korg put this into CODA is because of the ‘timeline’ in PG…boy two years flew by (as per assurances [paraphrasing] “Dec won’t do anything with Ent for at least two years…”). This should have been left out (what happens if Ent gets cancelled […if there is a God…] before the end of next year? What if Par suddenly announces “it’s NOT continuity”?)
The ‘Phase Pistol’/Laser thing: it’s much like the problem I have with ‘the ship’ (that’s coming up). We saw Pike with the laser, we saw his crew with lasers, and in discussion of the footage we heard (roughly), “back then they used lasers”…how hard a concept was this to grasp? Lasers should have been first then slowly (and I mean slooooowly) Phase-weapons could be discussed…but NOT shown (some things just make more sense left ‘as was’; weapons-tech is one). Oh, my rationing for Phase-weapons in this show is similar to REG's explanation for the Akriaprise: they couldn’t think up anything better for the time period, and decided “screw continuity”…and thus, the Phase-pistol was born.
“Akriaprise”: my, that’s a nice new ship…and that’s the problem:). See, let me ask you all something: which came first; Lamborghini Countach or the Ford Model T?
That’s my point, by making this ship thusly, they’ve really messed things up; Kirk’s ship looks so archaic now…even in the ‘movie era’.
Here’s how they reeeally dropped the ball: the ship should have been a Daedalus-class type vessel, or even a Grissom-class type (hey check the numbering on the one in ST II…three digits, she’s gotta' be old), but now…well see the closing comment on ‘Phase-pistols’
Uniforms: Okay, so we go from: ‘pips’, to ‘stripes’, to ‘symbols’, to ‘pips’…don’t think so. No military/organization TMK ever (and I mean eeeeeever) went in this kind of circle. Nope, it chunks.
‘Holotech’: WTF…we’ve just crawled off this rock we call Earth, and already we’re dazzled by the first piece of tech we find, instead of focusing on ‘staying alive’? I know, I know, “but Modem, they’re ‘Explorers’.” Lewis and Clark would have something to say about that I’d wager:D. And beside that, even if they did get the HT, what are the odds that it’d compatible with their systems (“we just installed it…and it blew out all our circuits”). Again, chunkage…
and final thought: if ‘Enterprise’ is so good, why did Sternbach leave? Hey ‘quit’ or ‘got fired’, the bottom line is; Rick ain’t there no-more. And my best guess is it’s over ‘Ent’ (RS probably disagreed with ‘the vision’ and either quit or was fired…Par’s loss, I assure you). AIA it: spews, blows, chunks, and swallows…if it had any more features, it’d be a kitchen appliance :D.
So, as somebody said “…you don’t have to watch it”; and I’m not going to…
