PLease dont let this refuel the debate:
Does anyone have any stats on marine equipment/vehicles/skills etc for a SFMC unit?
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PLease dont let this refuel the debate:
Does anyone have any stats on marine equipment/vehicles/skills etc for a SFMC unit?
While this will let the cat out of the bag. Here is a series of enlisted overlays I came up with for ground force/marine personnel. They are based on 36 DPs and use the Zero skill specialization rule from the players handbook.
ENLISTED OVERLAYS
VEHICULAR SPECIALIST
A diverse group of enlisted personal, who drive the various ground vehicles and fire their main weaponry as part of the larger combined arms team of the Federation Ground Forces and selected units in Starfleet Security. They usually train for nearly a full year, usually on Earth or Andor, before being assigned to an active line unit. While most can perform routine maintenance on their vehicle, heavy work, such as engine and main weapon repair, is beyond their everyday capability.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Ground Force Systems (Vehicular Systems) 1 (3)
Heavy Weapons (Choose Specialization) 1 (3)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)
Vehicle Operations (Armor Vehicle) 1 (3)
ARTILLERY SPECIALIST
Trained in the use of all modern artillery systems, Artillery specialist operate in support of the front line units in combat providing pinpoint fire support and cover. Many of these personal are found in the ranks or transfer later into the ranks Starfleet Tactical and Security operating the heavy Shipboard, Planetary and Starbase phaser arrays found on them.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Ground Force Systems (Artillery Systems) 1 (3)
Heavy Weapons (Artillery Systems) 1(3)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)
Vehicular Operations (Artillery Vehicle) 1 (3)
ENGINEER SPECIALIST
The Ground Force Combat Engineers are not quite the intellectual equivalent of their Starfleet equals they are still highly skilled and valued personal trained in the use of demolitions, construction, and destruction for the support of the Ground Forces. However many also help build and restore damaged worlds from both war and natural disaster.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Demolitions (Land Mines and one other Specialization) 1(2) (2)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
Engineering, Structural (Civil) (Combat) 1(2) (2)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Heavy Weapons (Choose Specialization) 1(3)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)
INFANTRY SPECIALIST
The word Infantry, no matter what world, race or culture one is from means the same thing a tough determined individual and a survivor.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Demolitions (Land Mines) 1(2)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Heavy Weapons (Choose Specialization) 1(2)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Personal Equipment (Choose Specialization) 1(2)
Planet Side Survival (Choose Specialization) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)
TECHNICIAN
From Shuttlecraft mechanics to Ordnance experts these enlisted personal can fix and rebuild just about anything in the Ground Force and Starfleet inventory save for a large starship and that given some extra time might just be done.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Computer (Choose Specialization) 1(3)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
Engineering Systems (Choose Specialization) 1(3)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Ground Force Systems (Choose Specialization) 1(3)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)
TRANSPORT SPECIALIST
A Transport Specialist is one who operates various ground vehicle for the substainment of ground forces. They know how to load and operate a vehicle so as to get the most out its capability. Many have been known to show great efforts and heroism in getting “The Stuff” through to the troops who need it the most in environments where Transporters can not work.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Ground Vehicle Systems (Vehicle Systems) 2 (3)
Ground Vehicle Operations (Transport Vehicle) 2 (3)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)
These are good do you have any more. Do you play with Starfleet Marines.
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You don't have to like you just have to do it .
Richard Marcinko
I use Marine the same way the US Navy uses them. I think there are overlays in the Price of Freedom book. As for equipment I just you the stuff in the players guide and the PoF books. I mean all they really are is well trained with a phaser rifle. I will see what else I can find.
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Cpt. Damian Harn, U.S.S. Brittania N.C.C. 31379
remember, only in USA the marines are attached(or independant) to the navy
in France "Les Troupes de Marine" create in 1626 by Richelieu are attached to Army
In spain "Tertio del Armada" are attached to Army
in italia "San marco" are attached to Army
.....................at vita eternam
Why this obstination to name ground soldier "Marine" ?
[This message has been edited by kalamaro (edited 03-31-2001).]
Don't ask. Just ... accept.
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"Killin' is my business, and business has been gooood!!!" - Commander Benson Winiford Payne, 373rd RRT, just prior to the end of the Dominion War.
"Must somebody need killin' somewhere?" - Commander Benson Winiford Payne, two days after end of Dominion War and having been informed of the disbandment of 373rd RRT
I use Starfleet Marines as, more or less, specialized security personnel. A very small force . . . but with the new, more militant, or atleast more security minded leadership, this small force has become more common in day to day operations.
I guess they've been dubbed marines due to the fact:
A)this is an american based science fiction series which draws from the american naval tradition
B)In the movie Aliens those who fought were called Marines
C)Currently the leading space agency is NASA
I know there are a couple other explinations . . . but is far to late . . . and I'm far to sleepy to think about them . . . night all.
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"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII
This is correct - for purposes of unit organization - but "marine" has come to mean "shipboard troops." Generally "marine" (no capital letter) refers to a soldier deployed from or based on a ship, while "Marine" (capitalized) refers specifically to a U.S. Marine.Quote:
Originally posted by kalamaro:
remember, only in USA the marines are attached (or independant) to the navy
Also, speaking as a former Marine, the relationship between the Marine Corps and the Navy is a sensitive subject for many Marines. Technically the Marine Corps is part of the Department of the Navy, but it is still an independent armed force.
I think the real reason that Star Trek doesn’t like the term “Marine” is because Star Trek was first produced in the late 1960’s, and back then the term “Marine” conjured up images of the then ongoing war in Vietnam…Quote:
Why this obstination to name ground soldier "Marine" ?
[This message has been edited by Cessna (edited 03-29-2001).]
Moderator hat... err... helmet on.
STOP
Old timers know the drill... Discussion of how to use marines in games is welcome in this forum, especially from a Narrator's perspective. Discussion of whether one should, whether they have a place in the Star Trek universe, why they didn't use them in Star Trek, etc. is not, at least here. Discussion as to whether or not they "belong" or "must be" in the Trek universe is appropriate in the Star Trek forum while general discussion of the marines would find a happy home in the General Forum.
-Dan, Co-Moderator
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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_staff.gif
Not trying to rekindle this old debate, but why is it that so many people seem to have trouble the idea that Star Trek doesn't use marines.
Probably because SF is not a "military" organization and the term "marine" is a very militant term, "security personel" sounds more defensive, exactly what SF was looking for. Starfleet security personel are basically marines...They provide security during peace time...They fight when needed, both in space and "dirtside". I don't see what the problem is here, if you want "marines" in your game then use RRT info in PoF...If not then use the standard security templates. In Star Trek they are basically the same.
Note, I said in "Star Trek they are basically the same" I obviously did not try to draw any lines between marines and navy personel...That just makes the marines mad. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif
whoo jalu3
the US Space Command is a USAF Command,
and the USAF they aren't Marine
the Marine in Nasa are just to Surveil the instalations
in startrek i'm prefer "Rapid Reaction Team" is to much than grunt
[This message has been edited by kalamaro (edited 03-29-2001).]
There is no problem with the debate.
The problem is the location of the debate as to whether marines exist in Starfleet. It is simply not on-topic, to either the Narrator's Forum or the Questions & Mechanics Forum. One of the advantages to these boards is it allows people to get involved in the discussions they so choose.
What is ok in those two forums? People posting overlays for their version of Starfleet marines would be reasonable. Discussing campaign ideas would be reasonable. Posting adventure suggestions for marines is fine. Posting ideas on how to integrate a single marine character with an otherwise "traditional" group would be fine. I noticed this marine thread when it first started. But, it was appropriate for the forum, as it dealt with things that a narrator might find useful. If one didn't want to use marines in one's game, no problem, the thread could be ignored.
It's the same thing as the animated series or novels. If someone wants to post details of Edoans (the three-armed dudes from the animated series), that'd be fine. An idea for a follow-up adventure to an animated episode would be fine. Suggestions for ways to run a Star Trek: New Frontier game are fine as well.
However, a debate as to whether the animated series should be canon does not belong in the Narrator's or Questions & Mechanics Forums. The Star Trek Forum is the perfect place for that. Same as for discussions as to whether or not marines should exist in the Star Trek universe.
(note - please do not respond to this post in this thread - I'd prefer to see if it can get back on-topic - if you feel a need to reply, feel free to either e-mail Owen and me or to post in the general forum).
-Dan, Co-Moderator
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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_staff.gif
[This message has been edited by Dan Stack (edited 03-29-2001).]
OK, then please relocate this string so that we can continue with this drawn out discussion . . . cause that's what usually happens with this one.
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"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII
Pissed-off Moderator mode engaged. Note: I do not like scofflaws.
Jalu3, what part of "please do not respond to this post in this thread" did you not understand? Do you think Dan meant "everyone but Jalu3 do not respond?" The rules apply to everyone. You are not helping the situation by demonstrating that you have no respect for the fact that a moderator was trying to salvage the possibility that the thread can actually remain on topic. If you wish to continue the long pointless argument, go over to Star Trek Chat or General Chat and start a thread. Don't demand that this one be moved there because you haven't the self control to restrict your typing.
End of rant.
Let's rephrase the question: does anyone have any info on Starfleet Ground Forces? That's the specific term used onscreen by Admiral Ross, so that's the term I'm going to ask everyone here use - if someone slips up and accidentally misspells it "Marines," just read "Ground Forces" in its place and keep to the topic. If you are in the pro-Marine faction, remember the Monty Python sketch - it's pronounced "Marines" but it's spelled "Ground Forces." Hey, we're all role-players here, we should be able to handle this...
Moderator hat off:
Gamer hat on:
Eric has, I think, got us off to a good start with his Overlays.
As has been pointed out, there are some Overlays in The Price Of Freedom for the Federation's Rapid Reaction Teams (you can pronounce that "Marines," "Special Forces," "Commandos" or "SEALS" if you wish). That book also has several weapons which would be at home in a campaign involving Federation Ground Forces, including photon mortars, stun grenades and other nifty lethal toys. The TNG Players' Guide provides a couple of Rapid Response Team character Archetypes and a few more bits of kit. That's about it for official LUG material on the subject.
On-screen information in the TNG era is even scarcer. The DS9 episode Nor The Battle To The Strong (an homage to The Red Badge Of Courage) mentions a vehicle called a "hopper," which from context sounds like a type of 24th century armoured personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle. It also shows us what appears to be a Ground Forces uniform, apparently a padded (or armoured) tunic worn over a standard uniform. A later DS9 episode, The Seige Of AR-559 (or was that 558?) gave a further glimpse of Ground Forces. The DS9 finale, What You Leave Behind, mentions landing Ground Forces on Cardassia Prime, but doesn't show them in action... That's about it.
Anyone interested in the subject of Ground Forces should check out John Stanford's site.
Whoops!
Sorry about that, folks. I didn't realize how much of a hot-button topic this was...!
US Space Command is currently supervised by a USAF general yes but it is made up of experts from all branches of the U.S. military service.Quote:
Originally posted by kalamaro:
whoo jalu3
the US Space Command is a USAF Command,
and the USAF they aren't Marine
the Marine in Nasa are just to Surveil the instalations
[This message has been edited by kalamaro (edited 03-29-2001).]
And while many marines do serve as guards, try telling former Marine and astronaut John Glenn that marines can't be all they can be http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif
Am I the only one here who thinks that Jalu3 was only making a modest request - proposing that the topic be moved? Did he really deserve a "public reprimand?"Quote:
Originally posted by Owen E Oulton:
Pissed-off Moderator mode engaged. Note: I do not like scofflaws.
Jalu3, what part of "please do not respond to this post in this thread" did you not understand? Do you think Dan meant "everyone but Jalu3 do not respond?" The rules apply to everyone. You are not helping the situation by demonstrating that you have no respect for the fact that a moderator was trying to salvage the possibility that the thread can actually remain on topic. If you wish to continue the long pointless argument, go over to Star Trek Chat or General Chat and start a thread. Don't demand that this one be moved there because you haven't the self control to restrict your typing.
End of rant.[/B]
Also, if the Moderator has truly ruled that this topic is DEAD, why did Moderator Oulton continue to respond to it..?
[This message has been edited by Cessna (edited 03-30-2001).]
Not to step on any moderator toes...Quote:
Originally posted by Cessna:
Am I the only one here who thinks that Jalu3 was only making a modest request - proposing that the topic be moved? Did he really deserve a "public reprimand?"
Also, if the Moderator has truly ruled that this topic is DEAD, why did Moderator Oulton continue to respond to it..?
Owen didn't rule the TOPIC dead, just asked that no one respons to his post... thus continuing the off topic debate. Halting the OFF TOPIC portion of the thread was his intent, which Jalu3's post continued.
ON TOPIC CONTENT:
I think that the specialties for Starfleet GROUND FORCES of any kind would actually be limited. As they seem to be closely integrated with the rest of starfleet (rather than a separate/ virtually separate branch) it would seem that they don't need much more than "infantry", "cavalry" and "combat engineers"... perhaps with additional schools for scouts/ recon and such. The combat engineer would have some training to cover a squad's needs until a specialist SF engineer could be called in. Planetary SDF's with more distinct arms might have greater duplication.
Since their battlefields would often be a high-tech areas (starships, starports, space stations, etc) all of them would likely have a basic grounding in Systems Engineering. Other specialties could be covered by individuals detailed to the GROUND FORCES from the rest of Starfleet, perhaps with a 6-8 week tactical refresher course.
The squad would be the basic tactical unit, consisting of 6 troops (to fit a standard transporter). A platoon would be 3 line squads and a platoon headquarters squad. With the power of ST-era personal weapons and availability of supporting fire from starships I'm not sure that a heavy weapons squad is required.
I would suggest that a standard SF GROUND FORCES SQUAD include:
1 Squad Leader
1 Combat Engineer
4 Riflemen
The platoon headquarters would be:
1 Platoon Commander
1 Platoon Sergeant
1 Combat Corpsman
1 Combat Engineer
2 Riflemen
A company (probably the largest regularly-fielded element) would have 3 line platoons and a headquarters section ( 2 squads).
The Command squad would consist of:
1 Company Commander
1 Company XO
1 Company Clerk
1 Combat Engineer
2 Riflemen
The Support Squad would consist of:
1 First Sergeant
2 Combat Medics
1 Armorer
2 Riflemen
That gives you squads of 6, platoons of 24, and companies of 90.
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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain
Does anyone have the stats for phaser rifles and compression phaser rifles. Like the correct length, weight, and volume. What is the difference between phaser and compression phaser rifles?
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"Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!"
While the Phasers have all been printed in the LUG books the I and II's common to all.
The Phaser Rifle IIIa was in TNG core rule book (this is that ugly rifle from TNG's first couple of seasons). The IIIC was in the Players handbook and DS9 core rule book (the phaser Seen in DS9) the IIIB (The phaser rifle seen in First Contact & Voyager)was in the Price of Freedom, think I may have got them backwords without looking.
The Compression Phasers uses two higher settings 17 & 18.
On the topic of Starfleet Marines, they were in the old Starfleet Battles game. The explanation was that their numbers were very low during peace time. But during the General War, there were many divisions raised for the war, this was all during the TOS era. The time during the movies was pretty much a "Cold War", the marines have been disbanded because they were not "needed." It would seem that those who wished to remain in service transferred to Starfleet's security, intelligence or command branches, depending on where their skills would do the most good. It seems that by the TNG era the ground side of combat is handled by security personnel. Command might get the glory and promotions, but security has to hold the ground and space. Then during the Dominion War, Starfleet found that it needed "Marines" (warriors)again. I'm sorry but as a historian I know that politicians have always made this mistake, assuming that if you stay peaceful, no one will attack you, the other side doesn't attack because they're afraid of you. But instead of creating a whole new service branch, they just took volunteers and gave them more intense training. Training in which stun was not the default setting on a phaser. Besides Rapid Response Team sounds more politically correct than Fleet Marine Force.
What are the effects of the two higher phaser settings?
I only have the core TNG book and player handbook. Could any one send me stats on the p-3b and any grenades?
Gotta disagree there, the outposts depictd in "nor the Battle the Strong" and "The siege of AR 552" were not high tech places. The places of combat would as varied as they are today. In TOS and the way LUG wrote of it the Liberation of Tarsus was fierce Street to Street battles. Star Trek V showed a desloete Desert world.Quote:
Originally posted by calguard66:
ON TOPIC CONTENT:
Since their battlefields would often be a high-tech areas (starships, starports, space stations, etc) all of them would likely have a basic grounding in Systems Engineering.
Then who would be operating the Photon mortar, the heavier groud phasers and the like?Quote:
The squad would be the basic tactical unit, consisting of 6 troops (to fit a standard transporter). A platoon would be 3 line squads and a platoon headquarters squad. With the power of ST-era personal weapons and availability of supporting fire from starships I'm not sure that a heavy weapons squad is required.
Truth is a Fleet marine force would be as diverse as its modern day equivalent is. I could sill see reliance on the Fleet for the purpose of long range logistics and even medical needs but the force would do its own work on planet the goal being to free the fleet up for its job i.e. keeping the enemy out of orbit and even the system.
Yeah, they used one of those in the opening of the infamous "Arena/Gorn Episode," right?Quote:
Originally posted by Eric R.:
Then who would be operating the Photon mortar, the heavier groud phasers and the like?
Does anyone have stats for one of those?
The photon mortar stats are in Price of Freedom.
Mortars have a few advantages over "direct fire" weapons, either real life guns or phasers. For example:
Mortars can lob shells over things. If your target is behind a building you won't have to slag the whole building to hit the target.
Perhaps one of the most important advantages is that you don't have to show yourself to the enemy in order to use indirect fire. You can hide out of site of the enemy and rain shells down on them, and not take any fire in return.
How does this relate to the game? An enemy with a simple, indirect fire weapon could wreak havoc on a phaser-armed away team from a hidden position. This would go a long way to offset the "PC phaser advantage" in a skirmish...
Are there any ballistic weapons for use by Starfleet. I remember a rail gun type weapon being used on DS9. Along with a fancy head-mounted sight with a HUD.
I suppose if I wanted a reliable mortar type weapon, it would be light, less than 10 kg (about the same as an M-60), have a magazine, maybe ten rounds, and the munitions would be programmable, set for ground-burst or air-burst and guided, IR seeking or used AI and IFF to track, attack, and set themselves to do the most damage to target or targets. I targeting could be done by spotters or with orbital surveillance. That would fit the bill.
Who needs a photon mortar when you can set the phaser rifle to level 16 and slag a building?
But I suppose the blast from a photon mortar would be equivalent to a high level phaser shot, with lesser damage further away from the point of impact.
To slag that buliding with your phaser rifle set to level 16 means you have to stick your head over whatever cover you have...Possibly getting yourself slagged. Why not just stand back and lob a few grenades from a mortar into, and, around the target. Much safer that way I think.
harg, ok, i'm present my apology for all i say on the marine.
no, i will never respond on this topic but :
My view is : I'm not use "Marine" Term in startrek
[This message has been edited by kalamaro (edited 03-31-2001).]
Excellant and very simply put! I wish all of the deserters on this topic could have been as polite and non judgmental in the past as your simple statement above is. You have diffenently got on my A' List from now on. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif