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Has there ever been on screen information about Chaplains or other faith-based positions in Starfleet? Or for that matter in the Federation as a whole?
In my upcoming FIS campaign, one of my players has decided to play a Starfleet Chaplain or a civilian priest who is recruited by the agency. I'd like to have on screen information to help shape his characters past.
I started a thread last year about this...did we lose that info since? I can't seem to find it.
Someone did some really kewl overlays for SF Chaplains. i don't have it anymore....I have since had a drive crash. :(
The general consensus came down to the following conclusions, iirc:
1. An official position similiar to a ship's consuler but with less authority.
2. An officer who is a regular crewmember but "moonlights" as an unofficial chaplian (and is an ordained minister, shaman, what have you).
EDIT: Never mind...here's the link to that thread: http://216.40.212.6/forum/showthread...ight=Chaplains
Hope this helps.
Tony
It helped somewhat, thank you very much for the link to the thread. Sorry to hear about your accident.:(
Continuing on Chaplains, then do Starfleet personnel use Chaplains? I'm not interested in the religious meaning and their beliefs. I've always pictured Chaplains serving more like U.S. army chaplains.
Wouldn't Starfleet use the position of Chaplain in a more general manner? A person trained in the manners of all major faiths and their practices. At least have people giving the last rites, I'd expect no less.
Funny that it should come up, but I had a Chaplin character once. He was primarily a Flight Control officer who was quite religious, as the Captain noted when, as the ship entered a combat situation, she heard my character quitely muttering a prayer under his breath.
To accomodate the various religions found in the Federation, I made certain that the character (after accepting an unofficial posting as the ship's spiritual officer and religious counselor) had a high general Theology rating (using LUG rules), with a variety of specializations in prominent religions of the Federation (Vulcan Mysticism, the Bajoran Prophets and Christianity, just to name a few).
In-game, there was a lot of play-ability for this character, as he was useful whenever the ship encountered species whose government was Theocratic, as well as serving in the roles that I previously mentioned.
Also, he was granted permission by Starfleet to perform wedding ceremonies, and he also led important dedications and commemorations. Finally, given his spiritual side, he served as the ship's Morale officer.
So, like I said, at least in our game it was a position with a lot of potential.
Greg
After last years thread I made an NPC that is a "chaplain". Acutally he's the counselor who happens to be a priest. For the (fairly small) number of personnel on the ship who are interested in his religion he's their priest. For everyone else he is the counselor.
Only major plot point has been that if he is told something in his role as a priest (i.e during confession) he cannot reveal that information - even to the CO. I decided that the UFP would support that.
Thanks for linking to the old thread. I had been looking for my old template for the Chaplain (as an addition to the councelling department),
**SHAMELESS PLUG MODE**
IMO the very best Chaplain template out there (and non specified religion too...)
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Gurden
OK, here is my version of a chaplain, based off the counselor overlay, I see it as a slightly more balanced character, which is probably easier to do as (not being a religious type) I see Theology as a social science rather than a skill in its own right...
Administration (Starship Personnel) 2(3)
Persuasion (Counseling) 2(3) (Oratory) (3)
Social Sciences (Theology) 2(3), (Choose Specialisation) (3)
Medical Sciences (Psychology) 1(2)
or
First Aid (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)
Athletics (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)
Computer (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)
Dodge 2
Energy Weapon (Phaser) 1(2)
History (Federation) 1(2), (Chosen Religion) (2)
Language
Federation Standard 1
Choose Language 1
Law (Starfleet Regulations) 1(2)
Planetside Survival (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)
Vehicle Operation (Shuttlecraft) 1(2)
Pacifist -1
I feel the slightly more rounded crewmember would be better represented in the average game, without sacrificing what they are to effectiveness in a game that doesn't feature religion.
------------------
DanG.
"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."
http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk
I'll be using CODA for this new series (test running CODA this way), so I'll simply convert the template as best I can.
I don't see Chaplains as spiritual officers, the counselor can see to those needs or even a plain civilian priest. I intended to run a specifically non-Starfleet campaign which would mean no ship and no regulations apart from Federation Law. The PC in question wanted to make a Chaplain from the Starfleet Ground Forces recruited by Federation Intelligence.
Just a thought, shouldn't Starfleet vessels have a person from each faith to minister to the needs of the believers on the ship? Such as Chaplains, priests, monks, vedeks, Vulcan Mystics and so on. Now wouldn't a Starfleet wanting to save space train people who are well versed in the needs of most religions? Through logistical processes assign "Chaplains" to ships on which they are needed? While being a seperate position from Counselors they would still be in the same branch.
Well, if your going into CODA, your problems are solved. Use the Mystic profession.
Posted by Dan Gurden:
Doh! I completely forgot about that.;) :oQuote:
Well, if your going into CODA, your problems are solved. Use the Mystic profession.
Thanks for the reminder, now I'll just modify it slightly for my own campaign.:)
If I may, I would like to offer 2 nearly useless pieces of information to the party.
1. Chakotay seems to follow a fairly well defined religon.
2. In the early '80s, the DC comic book had a character who was the adopted son of a SF Chaplain. In a flashback scene, the Chaplain was a Lt. JG, with a blue uniform and a modified collar.
My 2 cents...
If I may, I would like to offer 2 nearly useless pieces of information to the party.
1. Chakotay seems to follow a fairly well defined religon.
2. In the early '80s, the DC comic book had a character who was the adopted son of a SF Chaplain. In a flashback scene, the Chaplain was a Lt. JG, with a blue uniform and a modified collar.
My 2 cents...
Consider a dedication ceremony for a starship.
Or, as in some earthly religions, individuals aren't allowed to live or work at a location without being properlly blessed.
For this post I'll be using Navajo mysticism. For any Dine out there, please do not take offenses and feel free to correct me. Doo ahashyaa da.
Navajo buildings are built with the door facing east (the birth place of the sun, the beginning of all things). Where is east in space? Even then, the ship will constantly be changing. However, if you use the ship as a base singular "world," then perhaps the quarters of the individual are all that matters. So possibly having the doors facing.....Life Support? Engineering? Sick Bay? The Bridge?
Marriages....My knowledge is lacking in Navajo wedding ceremonies.
Singing the Ways. This is where the shaman (for us Europeans) comes in. The Ways have many functions, most notably healing. This brings to mind something EMH brought up in the minivan series, "I am programmed with all manner of holistic healing techniques and psycho-spiritual rituals." So religion (or mysticism) is more than just a Social skill. It is also a Medical skill.
Also consider funerary services. As I recall, Navajo don't mention the dead (for starters, Navajo didn't even have names until Eurpeans showed up). A commanding officer would have to refer to the deceased by way of rank and position (serial numbers might be considered a form of name.)
The one thing to keep in mind, not all religions are segregated from themselves. Christianity is notorious for this. Certain days are when you can talk to the spiritual, and only at certain places, and only through certain people. Some cultures, like the Dine, have no religion because they call it life. These are some aspects of various cultures that have to be considered when using alien religions. After all, what if it isn't a religion that is causing issues with procedure, but the culture itself. How would a ship's captain react to one of his crew smearing lamb's blood on the lintel of his quarters on passover?
Been reading some Alan Dean Foster recently?Quote:
Originally posted by Trinity Zeldis
Doo ahashyaa da.
With all due respect, I knew that phrase before I read that book. Some of us belagana have friends among Dineh.
I think that there are no special chaplains in Starfleet roster. Counselor has taken a role of 'chaplain' as a person you can talk to if you have to.
Counselor must be knowledgable with multiple religions so he knows at least how not to insult a person who is coming to talk to him.
Of course there may be persons who are chaplains or priests of specific religion. But they are not either working for Starfleet or don't let that religion interfere with their work.
Just thinking about how many religions there are in Earth nowadays (count in all branches and cults) and then expand that to hundreds or thousands of planets. It would require a fleet of chaplains to be spear around all ships. =)
Federation and Starfleet respect different religions and have true freedom of faith but they have also one faith above all that everyone working for Starfleet must respect first: Starfleet Regulations. =)
Vesku
I have to agree here.Quote:
Originally posted by FDor
I think that there are no special chaplains in Starfleet roster. Counselor has taken a role of 'chaplain' as a person you can talk to if you have to.
[snip]
Just thinking about how many religions there are in Earth nowadays (count in all branches and cults) and then expand that to hundreds or thousands of planets. It would require a fleet of chaplains to be spear around all ships. =)
[snip]
Vesku
If you want to be true to Roddenberry, humans of the future are supposed to evolve beyond the need for gods altogether. To see the TREK stance on religion, one only needs to watch TOS's "Who Mourns For Adonais?" and TNG's "Who Watches The Watchers."
Roddenberry (as well as his friend, Isaac Asimov) was a (secular) Humanist and positted that the majority of humanity would have adopted Humanism or a similar philosophy by TREK's time frame. Humanism embraces reason, democracy, and compassion above all else, is staunchly atheistic, and believes that mankind has the ability to solve its own problems without the need for gods or religions.
While I am not an atheist (I am Taoist & Buddhist), I personally find that Humanism is the only agreeable form of atheism.
My point in this: There wouldn't be a chaplains corps in Starfleet because the majority of Humanist mankind wouldn't have a use for it. And, although Vulcans have a non-theistic religion similar to Buddhism, their adherence to logic, reason, and freedom would also obviate the need for an organized chaplains corps.
That mankind is Humanist in the future doesn't mean religion, at large, would vanish. . . (There are the Bajorans, for example). But, Starfleet, as a policy, would leave the practice of religion up to the individual practitioner.
So, from the Roddenberry perspective, the Counselors Corps is the Chaplains Corps. (But, of course, that doesn't have to be the case for your game.)
(PS: For more information on Humanism, go to: http://www.americanhumanist.org/ )
I concur.Quote:
Originally posted by Ezri's Toy
So, from the Roddenberry perspective, the Counselors Corps is the Chaplains Corps. (But, of course, that doesn't have to be the case for your game.)
It's an interesting point. I was going to make an NPC Starbase Admiral incidentally a Methodist Christian, but hadn't got as far as linking this into the game.
I reckon Ezri's Toy has got the subject exactly right. With so many species and the potential diversity of faiths that could exist, if there is something the secular Counsellor can't help with, then pastoral care for the individuals choosing to practise any particular religion would I think be more likely fall to subspace network communities (possibly centred on "civilian" communities on inhabited planets in a sector) rather than on-site "chaplains", there being unlikely to be more than a handful of practicioners of any particular religion on any base or starship. Of course aboard a ship, those with religious faith might well hold multi-faith meetings or services, which could give rise to a few stories...
The notion of a US military Chaplaincy described earlier seems a bit militant for an exploratory body such as Starfleet. A bit too much of the old "humans only club" showing through, eh?
Apart from the episodes mentioned earlier, probably the longest running and most developed example of attitude to religion is of course the Bajoran "prophets", who are to Starfleet "wormhole aliens" whose powers are just "not understood yet", rather than "holy".
All that being said there is no reason that a Counselor can't also be a priest/priestess/whatever as well. In fact there are already pastoral counselors and psychologists who deal with spiritual issues.
Obviously they will have to interweave their belief structure into the "Starfleet way of life" but that could be a plot point too.
Amen to that! :D
"For those with faith, no explanation is necessary. For those without, no explanation will suffice."
I've heard this many times. Even before Kira said it on DS9. This is just one of those things where it will be decided on the situation. The game in which I played the engineer/priest, no one else on board followed the religion. There was no prosletyzing (sp?). He was just seen as an eccentric back up to the counselor. Or has stated in one game, "Every system needs built in redundancy. I am the redundancy."
Religion, like politics, is one of those things in which everyone is right, but no one is correct. Starfleet shows a reliance on the self, this is true. However, and I didn't want to bring this up, but Uhura says it in Bread and Circuses, "They aren't talking about the sun. They are talking about the son of God." There is also an episode in which Kirk mentions a beleif structure hinging on the Judeo-Christian core (I am unable to recollect the episode just yet).
No matter what, religion is one of those things a gamemaster/referree/narrator must decide how he wants to handle as in all games.
I thought that you could not duel class a PC. So you can not be a Starship Officer and a Mystic. So using the Mystic Profession may not allow you to go into one of the Starship Elite Professions like Starship Councilor unless you take the Innovative Edge and take Starship Duty.Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Gurden
Well, if your going into CODA, your problems are solved. Use the Mystic profession.
Reading the Player's Guide it says the following:
Sounds to me like the Ship's Councilor can also be Priest, Vedek, Rabbi etc. Many times spirtual leaders do these kind of jobs even if they are not the same faith like a Military Chaplin, who not only performs ceremonies and advice for his religon but is expected to with others. Even help those in a non faith circumstance like the above quote says. Or use their faith in what the above quote says. Reading further it sounds like this can also be the job of a religious leader.Quote:
Originally posted by Star Trek Player's Guide pg 73
The Starship Councilor is responsable for the emotional well-being of the ship's crew. Because of the nature of long space exploration-- long seperations from home, isolation from relatives, encounters with extrodanary phenomena, stress-- they provide individual guidance and advice to crewmembers.
*Cringe, twinge, grrk, SPROING*
Oh, sorry. But the above reference to dual classing a PC smacked me upside the head in a rude way. Having not seen CODA enough to make any comment, please someone tell me that the mentioned reference was that person's own interpretation of the system and not an actual game mechanic? If it is a game mechanic, I shall continue to use LUG and not bother with CODA. If it is a preference, I shall still endeavor to give it a shot (providing I can find anyone who roleplays in this hellhole).
Actually it is a game mechanic and it was a response to a CODA Answer to a CODA question. Having All the LUG and CODA. I preffer CODA. Not all the Professions and Elite Professions are out at this time. I would recomend looking at CODA before making a reference you prefer LUG over CODA. You can Dual Elite Class and Trust me it makes sense when reading through the system for ICON.Quote:
Originally posted by Trinity Zeldis
*Cringe, twinge, grrk, SPROING*
Oh, sorry. But the above reference to dual classing a PC smacked me upside the head in a rude way. Having not seen CODA enough to make any comment, please someone tell me that the mentioned reference was that person's own interpretation of the system and not an actual game mechanic? If it is a game mechanic, I shall continue to use LUG and not bother with CODA. If it is a preference, I shall still endeavor to give it a shot (providing I can find anyone who roleplays in this hellhole).
It just strikes me as a cheap cop out so far. I shall, however, continue to reserve judgement until I have seen it in play. The idea of a class based mechanic, for any reason, goes against the Star Trek grain. There is obviously a "class" system in place for Starfleet, but there aren't any real cookie cutter molds to the various "classes." Just please tell me there aren't levels as well. Please let there be some hope.
It rather depends on your definition of 'Duel Class'.
If you mean the heavily blinkered, imagination free version of "the rules say no, then thats what I do..." Then yes. CODA does not allow for the ludicrous idea of Dual Classing.
What CODA does is follow the real-life path of focusingf on job related skills.
Therefore a character will find it easier to learn and develop skills used everyday. But there is nothing stopping a character from learning extra skills. It is simply a little more difficuly to break out of the loop (ie; cost a couple more development points). Just like in the real world.
And then the Elite Professions seem to have a minimum ability Pre-reqs. So for example. A Mystic, who somehow found themselves the proud owners of the relevant pre-requisites could fulfill any Starship position also.
And thats with just the tiniest application of an imagination.
Just imagine how far you could go if you really thought about it!
[/Sarcasm mode deactivated]
As I have said, I have only been able to give CODA a very cursory glance ("What you think this is, a library? Buy it or go home!"), and I am not willing to shell out the money for a system I know only a very little about. As such, I must rely on what I read on this board (for I consider it to be the only Trek rpg forum around with any semblance of intelligent rhetoric) to give me an indicator of how the system fairs.
Class is a term that denotes a strict pigeon-hole effect on game play. I avoid it like the plague (the reason I don't play Rifts, Dungeons and Dragons, or a cornucopia of other copycat games). If I seem like I have little imagination, it is only because I must use conservative definitions when speaking on something I know nothing about. That is also why I asked for an explanation.
Now, thank you for answering my question, shall we get back to the topic at hand which is, "Why my IDIC is bigger than your dogma."
Let me start by saying, I am myself a devout Southern Baptist. I try to always incorporate some facet of faith in my games. I do agree with those of you that have said the majority of people in the future of our beloved Star Trek world are atheistic. Rather I should say the majority of Starfleet personnel.
Somebody pointed out this reflect's Roddenberry's humanistic philosophy. I think this is quite true. Star Trek was his vision of the future. However, I think you can fit faith and religion into your games.
I don't think Starfleet would have chaplains. However, I don't think they would restrict different religions in their ranks, in fact they would probably encourage them. Whose to say that a group of Baptists, Catholics, or Bajorans wouldn't have their own little group on a starship? I think this is more realistic than Starfleet actually condoning a particular faith. Thanks for the great discussion thread!
Would it work to simply ignore the rule in question if it exists? If not I'm sure it would work to create rules for a chaplain within starship officer along side command, counselor, etc.
I actually disagree. I think yes they would as long as the Priest, Rabbi, Preacher, Priestess, Vedek, etc. are tolerant of other religons. Everyone seems to think just Humans and Bajorans are the only religous races in Star Trek. We seem to also forget our Vulcans. Their religous beliefs or have you all forgotten the Vulcan Priestess T'Pau in Amok Time TOS Episode and Priestess T'Lar from Star Trek 3: Search for Spockand let's not forget Star Trek 6: Undiscovered Country where we see Spock meditaiting and praying for example.Quote:
Originally posted by Kosst Amojan
Let me start by saying, I am myself a devout Southern Baptist. I try to always incorporate some facet of faith in my games. I do agree with those of you that have said the majority of people in the future of our beloved Star Trek world are atheistic. Rather I should say the majority of Starfleet personnel.
Somebody pointed out this reflect's Roddenberry's humanistic philosophy. I think this is quite true. Star Trek was his vision of the future. However, I think you can fit faith and religion into your games.
I don't think Starfleet would have chaplains. However, I don't think they would restrict different religions in their ranks, in fact they would probably encourage them. Whose to say that a group of Baptists, Catholics, or Bajorans wouldn't have their own little group on a starship? I think this is more realistic than Starfleet actually condoning a particular faith. Thanks for the great discussion thread!
If we use the LUG books such as Way of Kalinar (The Vulcan Book) and Way of the Clans (The Andorian Book) both mention these races having many different religons. These are all Federation Races. This does not include the Bajorans and the Klingons that are not part of the Federation.
If anyone has served in the Military or know how the Military functions they know that Chaplins on board do not condone a particaliar Faith. Infact the Military has about every religon that they can think of including Wiccan and Hindu for example on your recruitment forms. Chaplin's duty on board is not to promote his faith but make sure the services and various religous needs of the crew are needed. Even those not of his own faith. The US Navy (Where Gene based many of his Starfleet Structure on) for example has a school called RP. The RP school has soldiers trained to assist the Chaplins with services and the various religons he may not be familair with as he sets up schedules for services and holidays on board his ship. And yes her performs services for his faith and sometimes others. Other times he has volunteers of the crew in that faith run the services. He would also make sure the last religous rights are performed for the crewmember when they die. Making sure the funeral is done for that crew member correctly.
My roommate was in Desert Storm on a ship. He said that the ship he was on was prodimant Protostant but the Chaplin was a Roman Catholic Priest. Yet the Father also had to deal with Catholic, Lutherian, Muslim, Hindu and the Wiccan faiths for example. He was able to do this for a crew of 1500. This would be the job of the of a Starfleet Chaplin. Imagine a Bajoran Priest having to deal with various religons for different crew members or the Vulcan Priestess. Or Someone is having spirtual needs the the Roman Catholic Priest advices the best he can on faith.
I have always felt we bypassed this prejudice religous issues we have and realize we may all be different but it comes down to faith. Even someone else's faith can open my own in a new way. If we to explore new life and new civilizations that means finding out about each other and what we beleive in.
In a game I'm in we have a Roman Catholic priest and so far he's been acting as a regular counselor, except for introducing comic books to some of the crew.
I wouldn't say that the Chaplain I mentioned earlier is a Caitan. So aliens can follow human religions and visa versa.Quote:
A bit too much of the old "humans only club" showing through, eh?
What about that funeral service for Spock, was it from the manual or just put together on the spot?