23rd Century Starfleet

I have taken 11 of my favorite ships from FASA's Starfleet SRM and converted them to Coda. Some of these classes have been presented by others in different threads, and I will say that my versions are just my vision of what they should look like and nothing more.

Also, remember that I have the Northampton- and Kiev-class frigates at:
http://forum.trek-rpg.net/forum/show...&threadid=4521

The service lives of the Excelsior and Miranda, obviously, extend deep into the 24th Century, and I've presented my vision of their designs in the 2370s, as well.

I hope my whirlwind tour of FASA's SRMs hasn't and doesn't discourage anyone else from developing and presenting their own versions of the ship's I've produced.

Anyway, I'll try to get all the posts finished by the weekend...then I'll tackle the Spacedock Starfleet SRM. :D

Excelsior-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Excelsior-class Exploratory Cruiser
Year Launched: 2284 {2293} {{2348}}

Hull Data
Structure: 40
Size/Decks: 7/26 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 467/186/78 meters {511/196/87 meters}
Complement: 650

Operational Data
Transporters: 6 standard, 6 emergency, 6 cargo
Cargo Units: 70
Shuttlebay: 3 stardrive aft {3 stardrive aft, 1 saucer aft}
Shuttlecraft: 21 size worth {28 size worth}
Tractor Beams: 1F, 1AV, 1AD
Separation System: Yes (emergency only)
Sensor System: Class 2 (+2/C) {Class 3 (+3/D)}
Operations System: Class 3 (D) {Class 4 (E)}
Life Support: Class 3 (D) {{Class 4 (E)}}

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IV (.5c) (D) {Type V (.75c) (D)} {{Class 6 (.9c) (D)}}
Warp System: Type VI (warp 6/7/8) (D) {Type VII (warp 7/8.5/9) (D)} {{Class 6A2 (warp 6/8/9.2) (D)}}

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type VIII (x4/C) {{Type IX (x3/C)}}
Penetration: 5/5/4/0/0 {{5/5/5/0/0}}
Photon Torpedoes: Type II (x2/C) {{Type V (x2/C)}}
Penetration: 4/4/4/4/4 {{4/4/4/4/4}}
Deflector Shield: Class 4 (C)
Protection/Threshold: 14/4

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +4C -3H +3T
Traits: {{Enchanced System (phasers) (0/0/+1/0/0), reflected above}}

Starfleet's most venerable design, the nearly century-old Excelsior-class Exploratory cruiser began its service life as the test bed for the experimental Transwarp drive system in the 2280s. Refitted with traditional warp drives after the experiment's failure, the Excelsior-class distinguished itself as an explorer and a warship.

The first refit brought the cruiser to the cutting edge of Federation technology, making the Excelsior the largest and most expensive class of vessels in the Starfleet registry. And the class was further honored when the first ship built after the refit was named USS Enterprise (NCC-1701B).

The mainstay of Starfleet for the first quarter of the 24th Century, the workhorse of the Federation didn't simply fade away when the Ambassador-class took over the as the primary explorer class. Instead, the Excelsior-class continued its broad range of missions, from exploration to diplomacy to combat.

The class received a much-needed facelift in 2348, receiving the latest in Federation technology to again make it one of the most advanced vessels in the fleet, despite the fact that her production cycle has ended two decades earlier. Even in the last quarter of the 24th Century, the Excelsior-class is a capable explorer and powerful warship. Only these ships' aging spaceframes will prevent them from serving for another 90 years.

Current projections by Starfleet indicate that the class will be phased out within the next 15 years.

Editor's Note: The second refit date is pure conjecture. I use sinlge brackets to list changes for the 2293 refit, and double brackets for the 2348 refit. The first set of dimensions is from the FASA book; the second set is from Spacedock. One alternative for the 2348 refit, to reflect the "aging spaceframe" concept, is to reduce the ship's structure to 35. This would allow other traits to be bought (like Battle Tested) for individual ships.

Andor-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Andor-class "Missile" Cruiser
Year Launched: 2274

Hull Data
Structure: 40
Size/Decks: 6/16 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 260/130/60 meters
Complement: 240

Operational Data
Transporters: 6 standard, 6 emergency, 6 cargo
Cargo Units: 65
Shuttlebay: 2 stardrive aft
Shuttlecraft: 12 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1F, 1AV
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 3 (+3/D)
Operations System: Class 3 (D)
Life Support: Class 3 (D)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IIIa (.6c) (C)
Warp System: Type VI (warp 6/7/8) (D)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type VII (C)
Penetration: 3/3/2/0/0
Photon Torpedoes: Type II (x4/C)
Penetration: 5/5/5/5/5
Deflector Shield: Class 3 (B)
Protection/Threshold: 14/4

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +1C -1H +4T
Traits: Enhanced System (shields)
Hardened System (Propulsion)

The Andor-class cruiser is a rarity of the 23rd-Century Starfleet; it is a purely military vessel, with little of the traditional multi-mission capabilities that most cruisers include. Designed in the wake of the Federation's belief that the Organians had lost interest in continuing their interdiction against Federation-Klingon conflict, the Andor-class was built to support fleet actions.

Using a withering volley of torpedo fire to decimate enemy formations from a distance, the Andor can hang back from the skirmish lines and pick off ships while the front-line combatants slug it out at close range.

The Andor is one of three Andorian designs in Starfleet service and all are named for Andorian military leaders. Most of these cruisers are almost entirely crewed by Andorians, and form the core of what is affectionately termed the "Blue Fleet."

Only 47 of these vessels were produced in its 16-year run, and most were transfered to the Andorian Defense Force by 2300. Four Andors were still in ADF service in 2369.

Anton-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Anton-class Light Cruiser
Year Launched: 2245 {2268}

Hull Data
Structure: 35 {40}
Size/Decks: 5/15 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 224/145/51 meters
Complement: 240

Operational Data
Transporters: 4 standard, 4 emergency, 4 cargo
Cargo Units: 50
Shuttlebay: 2 aft
Shuttlecraft: 10 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV, 1A
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 1 (+1/B)
Operations System: Class 2 (C)
Life Support: Class 2 (C)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IIa (.5c) (B)
Warp System: Type IV (warp 4/5/6) (C) {Type Va (warp 5/6/8) (D)}

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type III (x2/B)
Penetration: 3/3/2/0/0
Photon Torpedoes: Type I (x2/B) {Type II (x2/B)}
Penetration: 3/3/3/3/3 {4/4/4/4/4}
Deflector Shield: Class 2a (B)
Protection/Threshold: 13/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +3C +0H +1T
Traits: Enhanced System (sensors) (+4 to sensor tests)
{Design Defect (warp system)}

The predecessor to the successful Miranda-class cruiser, the Anton was at the forefront of the Federation expansion effort in the 2240s and 50s. A short-range exploration vessel, the light cruiser performed the more mundane exploratory missions from many of the new starbases that were being built along the frontier.

The venerable class underwent a refit in 2268 to upgrade the aging torpedo system and warp drive. However, engineers underestimated the frailty of the Anton's reinforced spaceframe, and the nacelles had a tendency to literally shear themselves off the struts under high-speed and high-stress maneuvers. These defects prompted Starfleet to completely redesign the vessel, resulting in the larger Miranda-class cruiser.

Miranda-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Miranda-class Cruiser
Year Launched: 2274 {2345} {{2370}}

Hull Data
Structure: 30 {{25}}
Size/Decks: 5/16 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 278/174/65 meters
Complement: 330

Operational Data
Transporters: 4 standard, 4 emergency, 4 cargo
Cargo Units: 50
Shuttlebay: 2 aft {3 aft}
Shuttlecraft: 10 size worth {15 size worth}
Tractor Beams: 1FD, 1AV
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 3 (+3/D) {Class 4 (+4/E)}
Operations System: Class 3 (D)
Life Support: Class 3 (D)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IV (.5c) (D) {Class 4A (.85c) (E)}
Warp System: Type Va (warp 5/6/8) (D) {Class 6A2 (warp 6/8/9.2) (D)}

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type VII (x2/B) {(C)} {{Type I Pulse (C)}}
Penetration: 4/3/3/0/0 {{5/5/4/0/0}}
Photon Torpedoes: Type II (x2/B) {Type V (x2/C)}
Penetration: 4/4/4/4/4 {4/4/4/4/4}
Deflector Shield: Class 3 (B)
Protection/Threshold: 14/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +2C +0H +2T

The Miranda was initially designed in response to a less-than-successful refit of the Anton-class light cruiser. Relatively cheap and simple to build, the Miranda was produced at amazing rates, with many different variations -- some of which were so radically different that they could have been considered classes of their own. The above statistics represent the "average" Miranda.

Serving well beyond its production life, the Miranda received a refit that extended its service life to the late 23rd-Century. Upgrades included sensors, propulsion, torpedoes, and the addition of a third shuttlebay to support the cruiser's continued exploration mission.

In the wake of Wolf 359, the Miranda also added a Type I pulse phaser to augment its offensive capability, an upgrade that proved extremely beneficial in both the Dominion War and the second Borg attack against Sector 001.

Due to Starfleet losses in the war, the surviving Mirandas are expected to serve for another quarter century. Engineers are already planning another refit for the cruiser around 2382.

Baker-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Baker-class Heavy Destroyer
Year Launched: 2272

Hull Data
Structure: 40
Size/Decks: 6/25 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 301/148/77 meters
Complement: 250

Operational Data
Transporters: 3 standard, 3 emergency, 3 cargo
Cargo Units: 60
Shuttlebay: 1 aft
Shuttlecraft: 6 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV, 1A
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 2 (+2/C)
Operations System: Class 3 (D)
Life Support: Class 2 (C)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type V (.85c) (D)
Warp System: Type VI (warp 6/7/8) (D)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type VII (x3/B)
Penetration: 4/4/4/0/0
Photon Torpedoes: Type II (B)
Penetration: 3/3/3/3/3
Deflector Shield: Class 2a (B)
Protection/Threshold: 13/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +1C +3H +1T
Traits: Hardened System (shields)
Enhanced System (impulse systems) (+.1c, reflected above)

The Baker-class heavy destroyer was initially designed as a cruiser, but a shortage of military vessels in the early 2270s prompted Starfleet to redesignate the class. A quick redesign was ordered, and the first Bakers left spacedock in 2272.

The design incorporates powerful impulse engines that make it faster in sublight than any other vessel in production. This superior maneuverability in combat makes up for the destoyer's lack of firepower at long range. As such, Baker captains prefer to close quickly and pummel the enemy with its Type VII phasers. With a dual-walled internal stucture that provides extra protection against explosive decompression during battle, the Baker has proven extremely hardy in combat.

The Baker's annual production rate was reduced to three following the signing of the Khitomer Accords.

Wilkerson-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Wilkerson-class Destroyer
Year Launched: 2274

Hull Data
Structure: 30
Size/Decks: 5/20 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 240/105/60 meters
Complement: 200

Operational Data
Transporters: 2 standard, 2 emergency, 2 cargo
Cargo Units: 50
Shuttlebay: 1 aft
Shuttlecraft: 5 size worth
Tractor Beams: 2F
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 3 (+3/D)
Operations System: Class 3 (D)
Life Support: Class 2 (C)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type V (.75c) (D)
Warp System: Type VI (warp 6/7/8) (D)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type VII (x2/B)
Penetration: 4/3/3/0/0
Photon Torpedoes: Type II (B)
Penetration: 3/3/3/3/3
Deflector Shield: Class 3 (B)
Protection/Threshold: 14/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +0C +3H +2T
Traits: Hardened System (weapons)

The second Starfleet vessel to mount the new Type VI warp engine after the Thufir's successful test, the Wilkerson-class destroyer mirrors the Baker's speed and combat capability. Designed more as a troubleshooter, the Wilkerson is able to reach hot-spots quickly to support Federation interests.

The Wilkerson also suffers from a lack of firepower at range, but again proves extremely capable in close combat. The destroyer has gained such a reputation against the enemy that Starfleet crews often refer to the ship's tactics as "The Wilkerson Charge."

Starfleet has opted to stop production of the Wilkerson following the Khitomer Accords, in favor of the larger and more powerful Baker.

Nice writeup on the Baker. I always liked that little (well not really that little) ship.

Thufir-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Thufir-class Destroyer
Year Launched: 2268

Hull Data
Structure: 30
Size/Decks: 5/13 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 280/130/40 meters
Complement: 200

Operational Data
Transporters: 2 standard, 2 emergency, 2 cargo
Cargo Units: 50
Shuttlebay: 2 stardrive forward
Shuttlecraft: 10 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV, 1AP, 1AS
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 2 (+2/C)
Operations System: Class 3 (D)
Life Support: Class 2 (C)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IV (.5c) (D)
Warp System: Type VI (warp 6/7/8) (D)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type VI (x3/B)
Penetration: 4/4/4/0/0
Photon Torpedoes: Type II (B)
Penetration: 3/3/3/3/3
Deflector Shield: Class 2a (B)
Protection/Threshold: 13/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +1C +2H +2T
Traits: Hardened System (propulsion)

When Starfleet needed a testbed for the new Type VI warp drive, they found a ship that the Andorians were designing for use in the ADF. The destroyer was rechristened the Thufir-class, and six vessels went into production. All launched in 2268 with Andorian crews, and tested the new warp drive to and beyond its limits.

USS L'neru was lost when its warp field inverted due to a previously unknown interstellar phenomenon, vaporizing the mysterious phenomenon and the ship in a spectacular explosion. The remaining five test ships, however, proved the Type VI an outstanding success.

Thirty-three more Thufirs were built for Starfleet between 2270 and 2272. The destroyer is still produced for the ADF in small numbers.

Remora-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Remora-class Escort
Year Launched: 2262 {2274}

Hull Data
Structure: 40
Size/Decks: 6/16 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 210/170/60 meters
Complement: 162

Operational Data
Transporters: 3 standard, 3 emergency, 3 cargo
Cargo Units: 70
Shuttlebay: 1 aft
Shuttlecraft: 6 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV, 1AV
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 2 (+2/C)
Operations System: Class 3 (D)
Life Support: Class 3 (D)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type V (.75c) (D)
Warp System: Type V (warp 5/6/7) (C)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type VI (x4/B) {(C)}
Penetration: 4/4/4/0/0
Photon Torpedoes: none {Type II (C)}
Penetration: {3/3/3/3/3}
Deflector Shield: Class 2a (B)
Protection/Threshold: 13/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +0C +2H +3T
Traits: Enhanced System (sensors, +2)

The Remora-class escort is a quick vessel that favors offensive punch over defensive capability. Lacking many amenities that other Starfleet vessels enjoy, the Remora is designed for short missions from a supporting starbase or station.

Originally launched in 2262, the Remora received a refit in 2274 that included the addition of a Type II torpedo system. The ship's production schedule ended after the Khitomer Accords, although Starfleet has no plans to replace the vessel in the near future.

Editor's Note: I restored the Remora to her FASA dimensions and reclassified her as a heavy escort. I still think that the Remora is the 23rd Century equivalent of the Defiant.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Capt Daniel Hunter
Nice writeup on the Baker. I always liked that little (well not really that little) ship.

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Thanks, so did I. I cheated a little bit to make the Baker a Size 6, but I think it worked out well.

To be honest, though, I'm actually happier with my Wilkerson write up, especially the text.

Chandley-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Chandley-class Heavy Frigate
Year Launched: 2272 {2290}

Hull Data
Structure: 45
Size/Decks: 7/26 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 315/262/90 meters
Complement: 363

Operational Data
Transporters: 9 standard, 9 emergency, 9 cargo
Cargo Units: 70
Shuttlebay: 2 aft {3 aft}
Shuttlecraft: 14 size worth {21 size worth}
Tractor Beams: 1FV, 2AD
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 2 (+2/C)
Operations System: Class 3 (D)
Life Support: Class 3 (D)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type V (.75c) (D)
Warp System: Type VI (warp 6/7/8) (D)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type VII (x3/B) {Type VIII (x3/C)}
Penetration: 4/4/4/0/0 {4/4/4/0/0}
Photon Torpedoes: Type II (x2/B) {Type III (x2/C)}
Penetration: 4/4/4/4/4 {4/4/4/4/4}
Deflector Shield: Class 3 (B)
Protection/Threshold: 14/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +2C +1H +2T
Traits: Hardened System (operations)

The Chandley's design sequence essentially began on the heels of the Axanari Rebellion, resulting in Starfleet's largest and most capable warship prior to 2284.

Starfleet conducted an extensive review of its actions and capabilities during the Rebellion, and determined that it most lacked a "troop moving" capability. It was under this initial premise that the Chandley program began, but Starfleet's move away from the idea of a Marine Corps-style ground force prompted designers to shelve the design for the time being.

But when conflict with the Klingons flared up again in the 2260s, the design was revived, updated, then shelved briefly again when the Organian Treaty was enacted. When skirmishes with the Klingons began to take place again in 2270, the need for a heavy combat vessel was readily apparent, and the Chandley was revisited, altered, and approved for production.

The frigate included the newly-tested Type VI warp drives, Type VII phasers, and a hardened operations system. The Chandley also departed from the traditional elegant Starfleet designs for a massive, almost-threatening look.

The Chandley ceased production in 2286, but received an upgrade to its weapons and shuttlebay in 2290.

Nelson-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Nelson-class "Scout" (Light Cruiser)
Year Launched: 2245 {2260}

Hull Data
Structure: 40
Size/Decks: 6/13 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 263/127/61 meters {270/127/61 meters}
Complement: 195

Operational Data
Transporters: 3 standard, 3 emergency, 3 cargo
Cargo Units: 75
Shuttlebay: 1 forward
Shuttlecraft: 6 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 3 (+3/D)
Operations System: Class 1 (B)
Life Support: Class 1 (B)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type II (.5c) (A) {Type III (.6c) (B)}
Warp System: Type III (warp 3/4/6) (B) {Type IIIa (warp 3/6/6.5) (C)}

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type IV (x2/A) {(B)}
Penetration: 3/3/2/0/0
Photon Torpedoes: None {Type I (x2/B)}
Penetration: n/a {3/3/3/3/3}
Deflector Shield: Class 2 (A) {Cass 2a (B)}
Protection/Threshold: 12/2 {13/3}

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +1C, +0H, +2T
Traits: Enhanced Sensors (+4 to sensor tests)
Hardened System (sensors)

The Nelson-class scout was at the forefront of the Federation's expansion efforts of the 2240s. Dozens of these long-range vessels scattered to the far reaches of the frontier, cataloging stars and planets, observing new life forms and civilizations, and occassionally making first contact.

Unlike most of their contemptoraries, the Nelson was not spacious, instead filling all available hull space with sensor enhancements and protection. This allowed the scout to scan larger areas of space faster than any other vessel previously could.

The Nelson performed its job so well that Starfleet felt no need for a new class of scouts until the mid-2260s, when it was apparent that the Nelson didn't have the longevity of the other 2245-era vessels, despite a 2260 refit. Many experts believed that the original "single-down" nacelle strut design was flawed, reducing the hull's prospective lifespan.

The Nelson was phased out in the mid 2270s.

Editor's Note (12/5/02): I've restored the Nelson's original dimensions as given in the FASA Starfleet SRM.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sea Tyger


Thanks, so did I. I cheated a little bit to make the Baker a Size 6, but I think it worked out well.

To be honest, though, I'm actually happier with my Wilkerson write up, especially the text.

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The Wilkerson is pretty nice too. Though I like the Baker better from a visual point of view :)

Ranger-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Ranger-class Scout
Year Launched: 2269 {2284}

Hull Data
Structure: 15
Size/Decks: 3/6 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 87/57/20 meters
Complement: 18

Operational Data
Transporters: 2 standard, 2 emergency, 2 cargo
Cargo Units: 50
Shuttlebay: 1 forward
Shuttlecraft: 3 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 3 (+3/D)
Operations System: Class 2 (C)
Life Support: Class 1 (B)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IIIa (.6c) (C)
Warp System: Type V (warp 5/6/7) (C) {Type Va (warp 5/6/8) (D)}

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type II I(x2/B)
Penetration: 3/3/2/0/0
Photon Torpedoes: Type II (x2/B)
Penetration: 4/4/4/4/4
Deflector Shield: Class 2a (B)
Protection/Threshold: 13/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: -1C +1H +1T
Traits: Enhanced Sensors (+4 to sensor tests)
Underpowered (see below)

The Ranger-class was the Nelson's replacement in the 2270s, and some circles contended that the vessel was rushed into production too soon. While a very capable scout, the Ranger was grossly underpowered and suffered in combat despite its greater firepower over the Nelson.

Despite these flaws, the Ranger was highly successful. Starfleet improved the scout's warp drives in 2284, to give the ship more range, but the lack of sufficient power plagued the class until it was phased out in the early 24th Century.

Design Notes: New Flaw
Underpowered
A vessel or class with this flaw suffers from lack of power to distribute to all of its essential systems in combat or high-stress situations.
Effect: In the first instance of transferring power, the engineer must intentionally cause two points of damage to one system (or, alternatively, one point of damage to two systems) to temporarily "upgrade" the performance of another system. All subsequent incidents of transferring power proceed normally until both points of intial damage is repaired. All other rules for tranferring power apply normally.

I like the Ranger, but I seem to recall that in the FASA adventure that had the Regula 1 station that the deckplans for the Ranger had only 3 decks... or am I imagining? :confused:

Tom

Correct. The adventure was "The Strider Incident". The deckplans were pretty poor in my opinion - no bathrooms for example! :D

To be honest, you could be absolutely right and I'd be none the wiser. :) I have never seen deckplans for the Ranger.

I determined the number of decks based on the height of the ship and the crew. If the crew did not fit into the formula provided in Coda, I took the highest or lowest number of decks (depending if the FASA crew number was too large or too small respectively, especially if I actually changed the size of the ship, like with the Nelson), and made the crew as close to the original number as possible. For the Excelsior and Miranda, I chose to use the Spacedock crew complement as the official one, and approximated it as best I could.

In the Ranger's case, FASA listed the crew at 73, which is way over what a 20m high ship can do in Coda (you would need 25 decks for a scout to have that many crewmembers). Given 3-5m per deck, the Ranger would have anywhere from 4-6 decks (I round to fall within 3-5m). I chose 6, then used a x3 multiplier (I could have taken x5, but decided to use x3 for some reason that I cannot recall at the moment) to give me a crew of 18.

Ok - I think you've done most of the ones I wanted now!

Although I can't stand the Wilkerson or Baker classes...

The Remora was pretty much what I came up with, although I'm still not in favour of torpedoes on an escort vessel. I like the rewrite of the Chandley history to cope with modern Trek history!

I'm particularly impressed that you were happy to resize ships to suit your own impressions of their jobs. It's more or less what I'm doing. What's your take on FASA vs Coda destroyers and frigates? I'm just re-typing based on size (i.e. Larson-class frigate and Loknar-class destroyer.

I'll run up my own versions soon and post them anyway - people can have fun spotting the differences :)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Imagus
What's your take on FASA vs Coda destroyers and frigates?

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Before Coda, I subscribed to the FASA belief that the frigate was the primary pure combat ship in the Starfleet arsenal (some cruisers are more powerful, but their role is different); a frigate is the largest ship in the fleet in the 2270s and early 80s.

Destoyers, then, become the hunter-killers, operating in small wings of ships to harass enemy warships, and escorts stick close to the big ships as a defensive screen.

Personally, I think Coda got the escort and frigate job descriptions backwards, but if you look solely at the Defiant (which should not, IMO, be an example of the type; instead, I believe it's a unique ship that has been nominally classified as an escort because Starfleet isn't supposed to have "warships"), you can understand why they wrote it up that way.

I reverse the job statements of the two types (frigates normally operate independently, and escorts do not), and I pretty much ignore destroyer escorts. If anything, I'd expect that a DE would better fall under "destroyer," rather than escort, but that's just me. :)

Curiosity compels me to ask this, then, Sea Tyger: From your notions of what ship is supposed to do what, did I get the idea right with my King's Protector class from a few days ago? I'm an AF vet, not a Navy one, so while I know my Trek pretty well, I'm not always certain I'm doing ship roles properly.

Quote:

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Originally posted by PGoodman13
Curiosity compels me to ask this, then, Sea Tyger: From your notions of what ship is supposed to do what, did I get the idea right with my King's Protector class from a few days ago? I'm an AF vet, not a Navy one, so while I know my Trek pretty well, I'm not always certain I'm doing ship roles properly.

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Spot on! :D From its description, the KP fits well into the role of a Coda Trek escort. Personally, I'd also list it as a heavy escort, with a slightly expanded role (independent operations).

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Originally posted by Sea Tyger
Spot on! :D

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Oh, good, I'm getting better at this sort of thing, then.

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From its description, the KP fits well into the role of a Coda Trek escort. Personally, I'd also list it as a heavy escort, with a slightly expanded role (independent operations).

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Well, they're capable of independent ops, but not for very long periods of time. Anything too big and their best option is to tuck tail and run, if the big mean thing doesn't gobble them up as a snack.

Besides, they're too damn small to do much on their own for any length of time. How much rec facility do you think a size 4 ship actually has, after all? ;)

I did some more looking into these types last night, especially with regards to Trek.

I think what caused my confusion is that DecTrek appears to have reintroduced destroyers, which were not present in LugTrek. However, on second checking, they were there all along, but Starfleet didn't use them - they were listed with warships under "Threat designs". In the NG, all the types are listed together, so my conclusion is that SF still does not use them. I'm creating the FASA destroyers as frigates or escorts as seems appropriate - the FASA frigates are just big frigates!

Historically, frigates seem to have been the predecessors to cruisers, and apart from the USN, went out of service in the 19th century. Destroyers were originally fast ships designed to hunt and kill torpedo boats (torpedo boat destroyers), and escorts were used for interference-type defence work on behalf of big slow-moving ships (freighters, convoys and specialist vessels, like aircraft carriers).

Can anyone give me any more info on this?

The term "frigate" dates back to the 13th Century to describe a type of galley that was sailing in the Mediterranean. Later, a frigate was "any medium-sized, fast sailing ship of moderate armament."

The US Navy's first frigates were launched between 1797 and 1800, including, of course, the Constitution. The US Navy built frigates well into the 1850s, including the Merrimack, which was raised by the Confederates and converted to the ironclad CSS Virginia. Some of the US Navy's frigates served into the 1880s.

I'm not sure exactly when the US Navy stopped classifying ships as frigates, but they did. It wasn't until the 1975 that Navy's destroyer escorts were reclassified as "frigates."

If you look through http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/ you will find that most of the world's navies have frigates of various kinds, from ASW to air defense to patrol frigates. In many navies, the frigate is the largest class of vessel in their inventories.

Either way, yes, modern frigates are primarily escorts for larger capital ships, although Webster's Dictionary lists a frigate as "intermediate" between cruiser and destroyer. Since US Navy frigates are reclassified destroyer escorts, the Webster's listing probably doesn't apply to them, but instead to frigates in general. That may be why the FASA frigate was a little larger than the destroyer.

I'll stick with Starfleet destroyers, if only because I like them. :) I can easily say that they were a product of that era, and that the more "evolved" Federation of the 24th Century no longer used them.

This is from James Dunnigan's & Albert Nofi's Victory at Sea: World War II in the Pacific:

"to Some extent decedants of the frigates of sailing navies, cruisers were nevertheless very much a tweenth century type of warship. Much smaller than battleships but too two or more times larger than destroyers, cruisers did not have as sharply defined roles as either of those two types."


And I simply ask if its called an escort then what does it escort if it "routinely operates independantly"? Thats way I have always seen the two as one and not two separate classes much in the same way I see explorers as battleships/Dreadnaughts

Honestly, we shouldn't be using modern navy definitions to explain Starfleet ships. Just as ship classifications have evolved in the last 700 years, so has it evolved in the Star Trek universe.

Cruisers, once capital ship escorts and strike ships, have now become multi-purpose exploration vessels designed to operate independently for sometimes years at a time.

The "explorer" classification didn't even exist until the beginning of the 24th Century, with the advent of the Ambassador class (I say this since the Constitution has been reclassified a Heavy Cruiser and that the Excelsior is an Exploratory Cruiser).

Frigates began as a type of 13th Century vessel that sailed the Mediterranean sea, then became a fast, moderately-gunned sailing warship, then a modern escort. Who's to say that the frigate doesn't take the place of the battleship and aircraft carrier of today as the Federation's primary warship, side-by-side with the bigger explorers and cruisers? Also, note that "destroyer escort" in the NG is an escort type, and not a frigate.

Destroyers remain the 23rd Century's primary "bulldog"-like strike ship and large escort, but are phased out entirely after the Cold War with the Klingons ended in the 2390s (my explanation, not official), with "escorts" taking on that role for the Federation, it seems.

We don't need to, and shouldn't, pigeon-hole Star Trek ships into modern definitions.

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Originally posted by Eric R.
And I simply ask if its called an escort then what does it escort if it "routinely operates independantly"?

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That's what's odd! As far as I can make out, escorts only operate independently in peacetime - because they make convenient coastal patrols. In wartime, they are purely defensive vessels.

What about the Constellation? That's a early 24th century ship.

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Originally posted by Azrael028
What about the Constellation? That's a early 24th century ship.

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You'll find the Constellation in the "Starfleet, 2300-2339" thread.

http://forum.trek-rpg.net/forum/show...&threadid=4773

I'm resurrecting this thread to fix some mistakes. The first is to restore the original dimensions of the Nelson-class scout, as presented in the FASA Starfleet SRM (already done...see page 1 of this thread). This changed the ship's classification to Light Cruiser (with a Scout mission profile).

Next, I will present my visions of the Loknar and Larson, as well as the 2245 version of the Constitution. (I apologize to the person I once had a heated discussion with over that subject...he was correct in that the pre-refit Constitution, as presented in the NG, was the 2257 version of the ship, and not the original 2245 vessel.)

Lastly, I will restore the Remora-class escort to her original dimensions, which will change her classification to heavy escort.

Loknar-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Loknar-class Heavy Frigate
Year Launched: 2245 {2253} {{2269}}

Hull Data
Structure: 40 {{35}}
Size/Decks: 6/12 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 290/127/56 meters
Complement: 120

Operational Data
Transporters: 3 standard, 3 emergency, 3 cargo
Cargo Units: 60
Shuttlebay: 1 saucer aft
Shuttlecraft: 6 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 3 (+3/D)
Operations System: Class 3 (D)
Life Support: Class 3 (D)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IIIa (.6c) (C)
Warp System: Type V (wf 5/6/7) (C)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type IV (x3/B) {{Type VII (x3/C)}}
Penetration: 4/3/3/0/0 {{4/4/4/0/0}}
Photon Torpedoes: None {Type I (x2/B)} {{Type II (x2/C)}}
Penetration: n/a {3/3/3/3/3} {{4/4/4/4/4}}
Deflector Shield: Cass 2a (B)
Protection/Threshold: 13/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +1C +1H +2T
Traits: Hardened System (propulsion)

The Loknar-class frigate was the third of four major classes of vessels produced during the Federation expansion period of the mid-2240s, thanks to Andorian arguments that the new Federation frontier needed warships in case of another disastrous first contact (like the Romulans and Klingons in decades and centuries past). As such, the Loknar is the first popular "Andorian" design, and its lengthy service is a tribute to the quality of Andorian engineering.

The frigate proved its value during the Axanar rebellion, although Starfleet realized the need to add photon torpedoes to the ship (which it did in a 2253 refit). One ship, the former USS Morgan City (NCC-2704), was captured by Klingon Admiral Kamato in 2255 and later used in an failed attempted coup of the chancellorship. Kamato later used the frigate, now called the IKSV Staav'eMara, to prey on shipping within the Triangle sector. The ship was last seen in 2278, but intelligence reports indicate it is still in active Klingon service.

The Loknar received a second refit in 2269, upgrading phasers, torpedoes and warp drive. Despite being superceded by the Chandley-class, dozens of Loknars remain in service as late as 2293, but the class expects to be phased out by 2310.

Larson-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Larson-class Destroyer
Year Launched: 2245 {2259} {{2270}}

Hull Data
Structure: 40
Size/Decks: 6/20 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 269/134/62 meters
Complement: 195

Operational Data
Transporters: 3 standard, 3 emergency, 3 cargo
Cargo Units: 60
Shuttlebay: 1 aft
Shuttlecraft: 6 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV, 1 AV
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 2 (+2/C)
Operations System: Class 4 (E)
Life Support: Class 4 (E)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IV (.6c) (D) {{Type V (.85c) (D)}}
Warp System: Type V (wf 5/6/7) (C)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type IV (x2/B) {{Type VI (x2/B)}}
Penetration: 3/2/2/0/0 {{4/3/3/0/0}}
Photon Torpedoes: Type I (x2/B) {{Type II (x2/B)}}
Penetration: 3/3/3/3/3 {{4/4/4/4/4}}
Deflector Shield: Class 2 (B) {Class 2a (B)}
Protection/Threshold: 12/2 {13/3}

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +1C +2H +2T
Traits: Enhanced System (impulse systems) (+.1c, reflected above)

The Larson-class destroyer was part of the Federation's expansion of the 2240s. An efficient patrol vessel that carried a surprisingly capable science department, the Larson often operated independently in peacetime, performing many of the same functions as the Constitution and Anton-class cruisers.

The class saw heavy action in the Axanar Rebellion, performing well above expectations. However, Starfleet found flaws within the destroyer's shield grid, and corrected the problem with a 2259 refit that upgraded to Class 2a shields.

The Larson was further modernized in 2270, with upgrades to weapons and impulse systems, making it one of the fastest ships in the fleet at sublight. But the advent of the faster and more modern Baker and Wilkerson-class destroyers in the early-to-mid 70s prompted Starfleet to phase the Larson out by 2283.

Constitution-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Constitution-class Heavy Cruiser
Year Launched: 2245

Hull Data
Structure: 40
Size/Decks: 6/23 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 289/130/73 meters
Complement: 203

Operational Data
Transporters: 3 standard, 3 emergency, 3 cargo
Cargo Units: 70
Shuttlebay: 1 aft
Shuttlecraft: 6 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV
Separation System: Yes (emergency only)
Sensor System: Class 3 (+3/D)
Operations System: Class 4 (E)
Life Support: Class 4 (E)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IV (.5c) (D)
Warp System: Type V (wf 5/6/7) (C)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type IV (x3/B)
Penetration: 4/3/3/0/0
Photon Torpedoes: Type I (B)
Penetration: 3/3/3/3/0
Deflector Shield: Class 2a (B)
Protection/Threshold: 13/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +2C +0H +2T
Traits: Hardened System (life support)

These statistics represent the Constitution-class heavy cruiser as of her original 2245 launch. For class description and 2257 and 2273 refit statistics, refer to p. 146 of the Narrator's Guide.

The Constitution was originally designed with heavy automation, allowing for a much smaller crew than a cruiser of its size would normally require. Automation system failures under stress during the Axanar Rebellion forced Starfleet to rethink certain aspects of the ship's design, resulting in the 2257 refit.

The Remora (page 1 of this thread) is updated.

This may just be my interpretation but wasn't the Destoryer originally designed to hunt down and destroy submarines?

If that still sticks, then how can that classification still be active in ST? Unless its a specific hunt and destroy vessel which SF wouldn't use due to its ethical and moral nature anyways.

I would say for SF:

Small / Support vessels: Shuttles, Freighters etc.
Frigates: Patrol ships and 'escorts'
Cruisers: General ship of the line / exploration

In this way, Destroyers and Battleships don't fit into SF ethos. Of course you have your specialised versions of these classes. eg.

Exploartory Cruiser
Heavy Cruiser
Heavy Escort (Frigate)

etc.

Anyways just me and my ramblings ;)

Websters calls a destroyer "a small fast warship used esp. to support larger vessels and usu. armed with 5-inch guns, depth charges, torpedoes, and often guided missiles."

Also, from the navy website:

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The destroyer evolved from the need of navies to counter a new ship which made a devastating debut in the Chilean Civil War of 1891 and in the Sino-Japanese War of 1894. This was the swift, small torpedo boat that could dash in close to the larger ships, loose their torpedoes and dash away. The world's navies recognized the need for a counter weapon and so the torpedo boat destroyer — later just "destroyer" — was born.

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Destroyers were designed in response to the torpedo boat, and not the submarine. Only when submarines became a major threat to surface vessels did the destroyer's (and other surface combatants) mission evolve to include that threat. IMO, destroyers in Trek are designed to protect larger capital ships (cruisers, explorers, etc.) from smaller harassing vessels (like escorts, corvettes, cutters and fighters), and are very relevant.

I've already decided that Starfleet used destroyer throughout the 23rd Century, but eventually phased them out after the Tomed Incident in 2311, when Starfleet moved away from a more militaristic force.

Ah :)

I knew it was something to do with small vessels that fired torpedoes ;)

Still in modern terms can you really find a difference between a Destroyer and Frigate?

Actually the question is more if there is a defference between Cruisers and Destroyers instead of Destroyers and Frigates. Frigates have evolved into the main ASW ships in most navies.

A typical Oliver Hazard Perry Figate in the USN has dimensions of 135.6m in length a beam of 13.7m and a draught of 7.5m. A Kidd Class destroyer is 171.1m in length a beam of 16.9m and a draught of 9m. A Ticonderoga class Cruiser (Agis) is 171.7m in length a beam of 17m and a draught of 9.4m. As you can see the destroyer and crusier is virtually the same size as one another (not to mention roughly equal to any one of the nine Battleships in Peral Harbor on Dec 7 1941.)

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Originally posted by SIR SIG
Still in modern terms can you really find a difference between a Destroyer and Frigate?

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Modern terms? As in the U.S. Navy in 2002, or in Star Trek terms? I'll answer the latter question first, in my own view (which differs a little from Decipher's official descriptions).

Frigate: For me, a frigate in the 23rd/24th centuries is the largest "warship" that Starfleet produces. These vessels, while still carrying a respectable scientific/exporatory capability (even combat-oriented cruisers would have a greater exploratory capability), are built primarily to defend the Federation from its enemies. Primarily independent long-range patrol vessels, frigates routinely operate in a specific region of space, where they can quickly reach trouble spots.

Destroyer: The early years of the Federation saw the sharp decline of military vessels as Starfleet focused on exploration. As such, destroyers were phased out completely, and only a few frigates remained to patrol along the Neutral Zone. When unremitting hostilities began with the Klingons in the early 2220s, the Federation found the need for a greater military presence, and reinstated the destroyer as a type.

23rd Century destroyers were built to counter threats from Klingon escorts, corvettes, cutters and other small harassing vessels. Operating in squads of three or four vessels, destroyers supplemented frigate patrols along the Klingon and Romulan borders. Specialize primarily in "skirmishing" -- a tactic of close-quarters combat -- destroyers were often heavily armored and favored phasers over torpedoes.

Most of Starfleet's destroyers were retired in the decade following the 2293 Khitomer Accords, and the destroyer type as a whole was discontinued by 2320, following Tomed Incident and the abandonment of Romulan interest in the Alpha Quadrant. The role of the escort has expanded to fill the destroyer's gap in the 24th Century.

Cruiser: For me, the role of the 23rd Century cruiser was that of the central capital ship (as the battleship was in the early 20th Century and the carrier was in the late 20th Century) of Starfleet, although it's primary mission was far from military. The cruiser is both scientist and soldier to Starfleet, capable of exploring the deepest reaches of the frontier, with little or no support from HQ, and defending itself from the enemies it may find there. The largest and most versatile ships Starfleet has to offer, some heavy cruisers carry more firepower than many frigates while still able to fully act as surveyor, researcher and diplomat. That's why cruisers were the flagships of Starfleet.

With the advent of the explorer type in the 24th Century, the cruiser took on a secondary exploration role, while still remaining a highly versatile type. More cruisers took on specialized roles...from diplomatic escorts to research vessels to explorers to warships. The cruiser retains this versatile role in the aftermath of the Dominion War, and will remain the "workhorse" type of the fleet for decades to come.