Can male Starfleet Personel have long hair? I have a player that would like to have his characcter with it..so i was wondering if its permissible in the Star Trek world
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Can male Starfleet Personel have long hair? I have a player that would like to have his characcter with it..so i was wondering if its permissible in the Star Trek world
23rd century - I'd say no way, mister!
24th century - You might be able to claim Worf was given special cultural dispensation, but he does have the pony-tail going on. Given the multicultural vibe of TNG, I'd say males could be longhairs.
Your campaign - it's permissable if you say so (yeah, I know it's an old chestnut).
-- Daniel
Hmm, good question.
Does it matter by species?
Vulcans do not go the buzzcut route, nor do the Andorians. The Efrosians (if Our Dear President from STVI is any example) are Big Hair People.
So maybe this just restricts short hair to humans...?
And do you label Chekov as having Short Hair or Long Hair?
(celebrating promotion to ensign by polishing his bald pate and braiding his beard...) ;)
I guess TOS era would forbid it, but it might be possible in the movie era (I remember at least an Efrosian, if that's their name, serving in a ship in STIV with all his hairs).
As for TNG era, since Riker was allowed the beard, I guess there was more freedom regarding the hairstyle.
But this may also depend also on the CO : when commanding the Enterprise, Jellico asked Troi to wear a conventional uniform, and in VOY, Tuvok asked a Bajoran crewmember to remove his earring. So maybe some CO allow more freedom than others in their crew's appearance.
The key phrase comes from 'The Wrath of Khan', where Kirk and Savik are sharing a Turbolift.
When Kirk notices that she has changed her hairstyle, and is now wearing her hair long. Saviks response is;
"Its still regulation."
This implies that there are many 'approved' hairstyles from long, to bun, to ponytails to buzz-cuts... And combined with the TNG-era alowances for cultural affectations I would say that this is expanded depending on the characters origin...
At the end of the day, if your character wants to have long hair, then let him. And if the bad guy grabs it to stop him escaping then the character may have a change of heart too.. ;)
I can't see ANY era in Star Trek restricting the length of a person's hair based on gender. However, as for Savik's "still regulation" hairstyle change, I CAN see Starfleet regulations requiring certain types of hairstyles for BOTH genders based on safety considerations - no loose, flowing hair that can be caught in machinery (although you don't usually see that type of machinery on a starship...) So I would say your character can have any length hair he wants - as long as he keeps it pulled back when on duty.
I agree with the Queen.
I agree you don't see much of "that sort" of machinery on starships. More importantly as a saftey concern, long hair could potentially seriously compromise donning of spacesuit or radsuit helmets.
Hence, I agree with you that the "still regulaton" thing would be gender-blind, and relating to safety.
I have no opinion on the topic at hand, but do want to thank you for making me smile. I've been dealing with a lot of headaches recently and Space Cadet's most pressing question is...hair length. :D
Keep up the good work, Space Cadet!
I agree with Darth Gurden (we Darth's have to stick together...I think)...there's an 'on duty' look and an 'off duty' look. Aside from Savik...look at Dr. Crusher or Troi...when on duty thier hair is tied up and back...when thier off duty its all over the place.Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Gurden
The key phrase comes from 'The Wrath of Khan', where Kirk and Savik are sharing a Turbolift.
When Kirk notices that she has changed her hairstyle, and is now wearing her hair long. Saviks response is;
"Its still regulation."
This implies that there are many 'approved' hairstyles from long, to bun, to ponytails to buzz-cuts... And combined with the TNG-era alowances for cultural affectations I would say that this is expanded depending on the characters origin...
At the end of the day, if your character wants to have long hair, then let him. And if the bad guy grabs it to stop him escaping then the character may have a change of heart too.. ;)
And speaking of Lt. Savik (I swear there are more 'a' s and 'v' s in her name)...The Directors Cut of Trek 2 comes out August 6...chock full of goodies (2 DVD set :cool: )...just thought I'd let people know.
Non-canon, but still;
Years ago, when I still read ST novels (before 20 came out in a week :D ), one of them (The Entropy Effect, V. McIntyre), had Sulu grow his hair long, and develop a "Fu Manchu" mustache to go with it, just to see how it looks. Kirk thinks of it as odd, but decides not to do anything about it (his thought to himself is along the lines of "What am I worried about... that it will get caught in the rigging?").
I think that there would be nothing preventing someone from doing it, but they might get some odd looks, being that it's not a normal part of Starfleet culture (for example, I work for a very conservative mutual fund company. There is nothing in our dress code about hair length. I used to have long hair, and I'd like to again. But I'd never get another promotion again here if I did... but it's not written anywhere. It's just part of the culture.)
My double Lincolns,
Hugh
LOL! I had forgotten about that.Quote:
Originally posted by Hugh Casey
Non-canon, but still;
Years ago, when I still read ST novels (before 20 came out in a week :D ), one of them (The Entropy Effect, V. McIntyre), had Sulu grow his hair long, and develop a "Fu Manchu" mustache to go with it, just to see how it looks. Kirk thinks of it as odd, but decides not to do anything about it (his thought to himself is along the lines of "What am I worried about... that it will get caught in the rigging?").
Remember also that TOS was shot in the 60s, where "the establishment" always wore their hair short and neat. I don't think Gene would have gotten away with a "long-haired hippy freak" in the crew.
By the time TNG came around, Big Hair (tm) was king, and the diversity of "accepted" styles was much broader.
So, while The Entropy Effect may not be "canon," I think it's a good example of the Starfleet culture, with regards to personal style. Scotty was allowed to wear his kilt with his dress uniform. I don't remember ever seeing Uhura in a dress uniform during the series, but I'm sure she would have been allowed to wear a traditional sash (I can't remember the name of that sash/shawl that's become popular for black women these days) with her dress tunic.
So, extrapolating from that, I would expect that Starfleet, while it would have regulations for safety and decorum, would not specifically restrict a male servicemember's hair style.
Aaaah, wasn't that Chekov? His Beetle cut was supposed to attract the younger crowd.Quote:
Originally posted by Sea Tyger
Remember also that TOS was shot in the 60s, where "the establishment" always wore their hair short and neat. I don't think Gene would have gotten away with a "long-haired hippy freak" in the crew.
I agree with most of you here. If it is neat and does not interfer with their job, anything goes. Personally, in my campaign, anyone showing up with a Joe Dirt mullet may be the first one shot by the locals, but that is just because we do a MP campaign and everyone wears red.
Well, in the first season TNG I remember guys wearing the dress-styled uniforms, so I figure by that period, yes. During the movie period, I think there's more control on this.
Personally, our campaign's Starfleet has certain grooming standards -- hair style neat, beards close-length and neat. Essentially, as long as your appearance is neat & professional, longer hair and beards, etc are allowed...but it's captain's discretion. Figure a lot of alien cultures get away with more by claiming 'cultural' whenever they want to do something not standard.
Hence kilts, etc.
Yes, but that early Beatles/Monkees/Beach Boys look was still a lot more conservative than, say, the Rubber Soul and beyond look the Beatles sported. It was downright mainstream to some of the stuff at the Monterey Pop Festival 25 years ago, so Gene could easily get away with it.Quote:
Originally posted by Kaiddin
Aaaah, wasn't that Chekov? His Beetle cut was supposed to attract the younger crowd.
Here's an obscure canon cultural example (from TMP). In the Rec Deck scene, there are several Native Americans shown (male and female), and both sexes have the NA tight ponytails AND neckware! You probably won't notice them unless you scene-by-scene the DVD or have some of the "making of" pics.
:)
I wonder if they still think clouds are the spirits of their ancestors or have advanced to the water vapor theory... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by darkwing duck1
Here's an obscure canon cultural example (from TMP). In the Rec Deck scene, there are several Native Americans shown (male and female), and both sexes have the NA tight ponytails AND neckware! You probably won't notice them unless you scene-by-scene the DVD or have some of the "making of" pics.
:)
From the canon examples based on the Amerind colonies in TNG and Chakotays religious belief in Voyager, it appears that both are equal and valid to the Amerind culture...Quote:
Originally posted by qerlin
I wonder if they still think clouds are the spirits of their ancestors or have advanced to the water vapor theory... :rolleyes:
Obviousy the writers felt that the native americans were better able to justify scientific knowledge and spiritual beliefs in the same package than can be said for our christian past!
On the other hand, what has ancestor worship got to do with how long Starfleet lets people wear their hair? ;)
What's up with the 'tude? :confused:Quote:
Originally posted by qerlin
I wonder if they still think clouds are the spirits of their ancestors or have advanced to the water vapor theory... :rolleyes:
I live in New Mexico...cyberluddire probably understands.Quote:
Originally posted by darkwing duck1
What's up with the 'tude? :confused:
Just couldn't resist...
Okay, now I'm ready to contribute. Well, actually, pose a question along the same lines. :)
What about tattoos? Not religious or cultural tattoos, but "gee, isn't this sexy" tattoos.
On the face.
Would this be allowed? My gut reaction is no, not unless it has some cultural or religious reason. Sticking Mickey Mouse on your cheek just doesn't fly in Starfleet.
How about a tattoo that says "I squeal for Jem'Hadar?"
;)
Ok, that's freaky...and you people complain about whether or not I'm on medication....then again Don actually has a job and real stress...go have a beer or something would you Don?Quote:
Originally posted by Don Mappin
How about a tattoo that says "I squeal for Jem'Hadar?"
I'd say no. Just following the professional appearance guideline. As much as tattoos and piercing everything on oneself is popular, it just does NOT look professional.Quote:
Originally posted by Don Mappin
Okay, now I'm ready to contribute. Well, actually, pose a question along the same lines. :)
What about tattoos? Not religious or cultural tattoos, but "gee, isn't this sexy" tattoos.
On the face.
Would this be allowed? My gut reaction is no, not unless it has some cultural or religious reason. Sticking Mickey Mouse on your cheek just doesn't fly in Starfleet.
How about a tattoo that says "I squeal for Jem'Hadar?"
;)
I'm inclined to agree with qerlin. No, because of the "professional appearance" guideline, unless there's a cultural significance to it (and even then, there's going to probably be some discussion, especially in the 24th century).Quote:
Originally posted by Don Mappin
What about tattoos? Not religious or cultural tattoos, but "gee, isn't this sexy" tattoos.
On the face.
Would this be allowed? My gut reaction is no, not unless it has some cultural or religious reason.
Beards weren't restricted to the TNG era. Captain Terrell and Commander Kyle of the USS Reliant both had beards, as did Captain Bateson of the USS Bozeman.Quote:
Originally posted by C5
I guess TOS era would forbid it, but it might be possible in the movie era (I remember at least an Efrosian, if that's their name, serving in a ship in STIV with all his hairs).
It's possible that there is some variation from CO to CO, but probably not very much. I definitely got the impression from Jellico that Starfleet regs permitted the civilian clothes for counselors (a move to make the ship's personnel more comfortable discussing their problems); the bit about the uniform was defnitely his preference (and the fact that Marina Sirtis had wanted to get back into a regular uniform and out of the Denny's waitress outfit for years didn't hurt that process).Quote:
But this may also depend also on the CO : when commanding the Enterprise, Jellico asked Troi to wear a conventional uniform, and in VOY, Tuvok asked a Bajoran crewmember to remove his earring. So maybe some CO allow more freedom than others in their crew's appearance.
Don't even get me started on the hypocrisy of Starfleet in the 24th century regarding Bajoran earrings. It's not pretty.
((hoping no one jumpsdown my throat))
I proscribe to th military decorum theory. Feamle are allowed to wear their hair any way they want, unless it interfears with the uniform, ie donning a vac suit or rad suit. males must wear it this way also, where it does not interfear with the wearing of a uniform.
As in there are no gas masks, so beards would be allowed as long as they are neat. Hair length could be long on either if held in a way that would not prevent the seal on a vacc suit. which could have explosive problems..
Tattoos are allowed as long as they are in taste and not visible or that if visible are within your racial/religious beleifs, and are not offensive to another race.. as in having the saying "klingons sux" on you hand would not be a good thing in any language..
NOTE: I am not jumping down your throat...just in case you thought I was....:DQuote:
Originally posted by Silverthorne
((hoping no one jumpsdown my throat))
I proscribe to th military decorum theory. Feamle are allowed to wear their hair any way they want, unless it interfears with the uniform, ie donning a vac suit or rad suit. males must wear it this way also, where it does not interfear with the wearing of a uniform.
As in there are no gas masks, so beards would be allowed as long as they are neat. Hair length could be long on either if held in a way that would not prevent the seal on a vacc suit. which could have explosive problems..
Tattoos are allowed as long as they are in taste and not visible or that if visible are within your racial/religious beleifs, and are not offensive to another race.. as in having the saying "klingons sux" on you hand would not be a good thing in any language..
I think except for your point about hair and tattoos I always thought that was how Trek military was...for the most part. Neat beards, regulation lenth hair...tattoos only if you were religious (or Ricardo Montalban :D ) and I think your legs had to be shaved...or is that just William Shatner? The only explosive problem I could see in a vac-suit is if you just had lunch at White Castle...go laugh...you know you want to.