ICON Klingon sourcebook: The Rebirth

There was a discussion in the "General RP" section a little while ago about the need for a good ICON Klingon sourcebook.

For those who may not know, there actually was a project that intended to create one, but due to the egos of some involved, what was going to be a gaming supplement became a Klingon language/history text with a side order of gaming.

I know this because I was part of that project.

That said project has pretty much fallen by the wayside.

I want to get it back up and running, and finish what was started.

But I'd like to create a gaming supplement, not a sociology text.

Is there anyone who would want to be part of bringing this book back from the dead and make what was supposed to be made for those of us who still enjoy ICON gaming?

I'll be more than happy to read the result, and even be involved in fact checking/throwing ideas around...

And you are more than welcome to use the Klingon Honour stuff I came up with (and would be willing to expand it a little).

But for contributing, I would need to focus on completing the Trill stuff first... Keep me on the list, and lessee what my commitments are like when work is handed out...

I was also part of the group. So count me in. I worked on the ground forces stuff, and a few ship designs. But i will do anything to help.

Q'Pla

Great!

Like I said, what I'd like to design is somehting in the spirt of the FASA Klingon supplement...something that can be used for gaming purposes, not Klingon Sociology 101.

Hey do we know who wrote chapters 2 (History) & 8 (Planets) for the 'Blood and Honor' book? There is a lot of real good information in 'em.

Question two, are you up for using information from novels, or are you wanting to keep it as close to canon as possible?

Also, if I can find time I have a few small ideas you might like to see. After all Rebirth and my name go hand in hand :D.

Some thoughts...

I'd be interesting in participating, but only under certain conditions...

There would have to be one person in charge (not me, I don't have the time) of the project, an editor-in-chief.

No mailing lists or yahoo clubs, unless absolutely necessary. If Dan Moppin's evil twin Don Mappin agrees, a private forum here on the TrekRPG board would be ideal. The editor-in-chief should appoint a moderator answerable to him/her and acceptable to Don to handle the administrivia of keeping the forum running.

The focus would have to be gaming, with everything driven by that one goal. Bits on Klingon culture and language would be designed as tools for the GM (or Narrator, if you prefer) to set the mood and maintain the "look-and-feel" of a Klingon campaign.

That said, I have a few suggestions on the philosophy of doing this sort of game manual...

The game mechanics, although written for ICON, should not be so rules-bound that a FASA, GURPS, Prime Directive or CODA GM wouldn't be able to adapt most or all of it.

Although the core of the sourcebook should be written with an eye to remaining consistent with canon, there should be a chapter on integrating the John Ford (FASA, Pocket Books novels) material into a campaign, and discussion of the three main models for the Klingon culture - Soviet (TOS), Norse (TNG) and Japanese (fannish) styles.

Also included should be a collection of forms and handouts/player aids in Klingon graphic format.

I'm willing to do art for the book, as well as help with the graphic design and layout.

Well I was yet another one of those people from the old project.

I was doing maps (of course) and Empire stats etc. ie how big is there space, planets etc

So I could possibly throw a few ideas around to. :)

I would love to do work about starships and starbases. :)

You need to check out John Marshalls stuff on Klingons its very good.

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Originally posted by Thierry
You need to check out John Marshalls stuff on Klingons its very good.

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URL?

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Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
Some thoughts...

There would have to be one person in charge of the project, an editor-in-chief.

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I can agree with that.

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The game mechanics, although written for ICON, should not be so rules-bound that a FASA, GURPS, Prime Directive or CODA GM wouldn't be able to adapt most or all of it.

Although the core of the sourcebook should be written with an eye to remaining consistent with canon.

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The problem here is there is so little on canon past the Klingon homeworld, for example: are there subject races (books, FASA, PD, & SFB all say yes, Canon- no mention)? There's going to be a lot of grey areas with true canon.

Even though Canon does not mention Client Races, there can be there.

LUG has alot of Romulan Client Races, few explained....Also the other games have some client races.

I think that a game resource can stretch and explore new avenues. So much is not shown on the TV; just as long as you don't get to overboard.

I would be willing to help in this project. I am a Romulan, but could assit as a non-Klingon voice.

Client races? That's a polite term for slaves ;)

But then one would expect such duplicity from a Romulan ;)

Okay I am joking, just couldn't resist.

Pointed ear freak! :p

Okay okay, I'll stop.

I agree that the idea of providing uses for FASA, CODA and GPD are good ideas :)

"The problem here is there is so little on canon past the Klingon homeworld, for example: are there subject races (books, FASA, PD, & SFB all say yes, Canon- no mention)? There's going to be a lot of grey areas with true canon."

Try reading beyond the part you quoted. As I said, there should be a chapter or chapters on integrating these other sources into the campaign. Sheesh, I've heard of short attention spans, but - oooooh, Donuts!

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Originally posted by Dan Gurden


URL?

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Look here he just ask that you email him.
General RP, Systems, & Mechanics > Here be Klingons..

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Originally posted by Thierry


Look here he just ask that you email him.
General RP, Systems, & Mechanics > Here be Klingons..

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Right. Gotcha.

Already did that back then. Twice.

Nothing yet...

No Owen, DON'T FINISH THAT LAST DONUT...

I'm not trying to ignore the rest of the your post, just don't want to see the project get painted in to the corner. I do, after all, incorporate the FASA bits into my game...the second biggest secret of the empire. :) As far as rules for all the systems, that might be a little to much. Writing in as generic as possible for most of the book, with conversion stuff as an appendix, or some such.

I'm sorry for being so remiss in replies to your requests...a flu virus decided to cut a swath through my family, and when I finally was next on its list, I somehow added a severe sinus infection to it...so I've really been out of it.

I'd like to send out copies of the 1st draft I spoke of, but when I tried sending it out today, I got it returned to me with a "too large to send". So I have to pare it down size-wize.

I will be sending stuff out, nevertheless.

Stay tuned...

Re: Background from other sources - My biggest concern here is that some stuff, like FASA/Ford Fusions (FFF?), or the entire post-TOS history of Prime Directive, is in direct conflict with the base-line on-screen continuity, and as such, really needs to be dealt with as an alternate reality. Perhaps the best way to deal with this aspect is to issue them as appendices to the sourcebook, in separate documents. That way, a person could download the basic sourcebook and not the FFF appendix or the SFB/PD stuff.

Re: Compatibility with other gaming systems - I'm not talking about providing conversions and alternate game mechanics for anything, but rather making the book a rules-light sourcebook. After all, the only new rules which should be needed would be character generation and probably an Honour system, most likely based on the Way of D'era Romulan Glory. These are ICON-specific, but GM's in other systems already have character generation systems available. Most other stuff should be dealt with in such a manner that the rules system is largely irrelevant. Sure, ICON is the default and any examples would be given in ICON terms, but the concepts should be explained clearly enough that they can be used with other mechanics.

For instance, the basic combat rules are already given in the TNG and DS9 Core Rules, and expanded upon in the TNG Players' Guide, and need not be extensively repeated. F'rinstance, a treatment on moq'bara or bet'leH advanced combat should give the manœvres and modifiers as with the examples on pp. 74-77 of the TNGPG, but shouldn't go reiterating the advanced combat rules. The descriptions should be written so that a FASA GM can look over the description and say "Aha! I know how to adapt that!" Same goes with descriptions of new Traits and Skills.

Of course, I think all sourcebooks should be done that way, with the actual rules left to the Core Books, but that's just me... ;)

If you need a planetary surveyor, and it doesn't step on Sir Sig's toes - I'd be happy to reprise my role from the Cardies book. Let me know...

:)

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Originally posted by Dan Gurden


Right. Gotcha.

Already did that back then. Twice.

Nothing yet...

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Email me again, wouldja?

WOW! You guys gave me a lot to think about, and I'm glad there are those out there who really want to get involved.

(deep bow and tip of hat)

Let me respond to what some of you have said the best I can:

Phoenix: As to using novels or canon, well, I've never been big on adhering to one or the other. As far as I'm concerned, if it's Klingon and can be used in a game, that's good enough for me. Since there's little to nothing in the line of canon on the Homeworld, I think we can afford to be liberal in areas. I must applaud you for capturing my goal of this project: keep it as generic as we can.

Owen: It's good that we agree that the focus must be gaming, else we risk self-imploding like the previous project did before. Aspects of culture and language should be rightly provided as tools (i.e., rituals, ranks, commands), but not as to overpower the text. I feel if we use ICON as the foundation, other GMs can reverse-engineer these terms into their own systems if they haven't done so already. As for the core of the book, canon should be a strong element of its makeup, but not slaved to it. I've been involved in Klingon fandom for over a decade, and we use all aspects of things Klingon -- FASA, canon, books, etc.

Evan: Starships and starbases would be important, but as I said above, not to where it overpowers things. If we keep things basic, the GMs can create from what we set up.

HHirl: The idea of 'client' races is one that needs to be explored.


Folks, you may think me odd, but I see this project as akin to cooking up a pot of soup.

If the basic elements of the soup -- stock, meat, vegetables -- are added together in the right proportion, as well as just the right amount of spices, then you have a delicious meal. Too much of any one element, and the soup is ruined.

And I believe you all feel the same way, yes?

That being said, if you'll forgive my cooking allusions, shall we start cooking?

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Originally posted by The Highlander

Evan: Starships and starbases would be important, but as I said above, not to where it overpowers things. If we keep things basic, the GMs can create from what we set up.

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So I've got stats for K'tinga Class, and D-12 Class ( Generations ) for my Movie Era Sourcebook, available soon. And I am thinking of some else. I would love to do the starships chapter, probably comparable to the one in Price of Freedom. Just give me a sum on what you exactly want in need. My plan would be to give the stats for the ships we saw on the screen and not yet published and further give some new ships in classes not already featured. Frigates and the like. Additionally I would give an example or two about starbases, because there are no screen evidences about some ( or are there ), I would do the design work on my own, so you might give some hints on that either.

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Originally posted by The Highlander

Owen: It's good that we agree that the focus must be gaming, else we risk self-imploding like the previous project did before. Aspects of culture and language should be rightly provided as tools (i.e., rituals, ranks, commands), but not as to overpower the text. I feel if we use ICON as the foundation, other GMs can reverse-engineer these terms into their own systems if they haven't done so already. As for the core of the book, canon should be a strong element of its makeup, but not slaved to it. I've been involved in Klingon fandom for over a decade, and we use all aspects of things Klingon -- FASA, canon, books, etc.

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OK, here I back out... As far as I am concerned I am in no position to comment on Novels or FASA... So I leave here.

Mostly because they are non canon, and as you say, canon as a base... May be all well and good, but that base is unlikely to tally in with FASA or the Novels (from what few comparisons I have seen argued about for the last 10-odd years)...

As far as I would go would treat canon as sacred... And make the rest up on the assumption that this was a professional product and subject to legal wranglings when using other intellectual property. That simply doesn't appeal to me, I like creating the rest myself, and have some firm ideas that I simply cannot find the words for... Yet.

So here I step off. Good Luck guys...

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Originally posted by The Highlander

HHirl: The idea of 'client' races is one that needs to be explored.
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Well again we lead to the idea that space has a huge amount of different races, at least Star Trek space does....

So the Klingons would surely have met and warred against many of them. I know two are talked about in the Way of D'era as beeing on the Klingon/Romulan boarder. Another would be the Orions.

I guess it comes down to what/who lived in the Klingon sphere of influance and how they effected the Klingons now.

The TV/Canon never shows any race other than Klingon, so I would think that like the Star Empire the Klingons only allow themselfs to have a space force. But how about labourers and slave workers, didn't the ST:movie have alot of random races in the Klingon Prison camp?

Soemthing to think about ands explore...

Krios was a client world of the Klingon Empire.

It was featured in the TNG episode "The Mind's Eye", where the Romulans where trying to instill a insurrection/assassination on the Klingon Governor, Vagh and blaming the Federation for it!

I remember the Kriosians being like Kamala, the empathic metamorph and her chaperone from "The Perfect Mate".

Or have I got that wrong?

Lars

Okay, from the looks of things, we're off to a decent start -- we all have an idea of what we want to see and how we should present it.

Now, if the powers-that-be here would so nice as to set us up with some space that we could work in....

Please?

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Originally posted by Dan Gurden


As far as I would go would treat canon as sacred... And make the rest up on the assumption that this was a professional product and subject to legal wranglings when using other intellectual property. That simply doesn't appeal to me, I like creating the rest myself, and have some firm ideas that I simply cannot find the words for... Yet.

So here I step off. Good Luck guys...

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Maybe I was misunderstood...I never intended to take form other properties. I meant that if someone came up with something inspired by novel or FASA materials, there's no reason why it can't be incorporated...

I figured that a great deal of things will indeed be made up, because even though there's a great deal of Klingon material out there, there's an equally large deficit as well...