Changing Departments

Well, the title says some of it, but not all:

In the foreseeable future my science officer will probably be offered the job of XO of the USS Galahad. That would of course require her to switch from Sciences to the Command branch. Right now she is the Department Head for sciences + Bridge Officer Certification allready done.

What do you think would be the requirements for that change, apart from what's in the core rules (like replacement in the original department, etc.). Ie. what skills would be required and how long would she have to learn those skills 'on-the-job' while allready serving in a command position?

Would a change like this only be possible with the same skill levels a command officer has or would it be okay to have the same level in the relevant specializations, but not the main skill? (eg. Command(Starship) at 1(3) instead of the 2(3) command officers learn at the academy)

Well, what do you think. Any feedback welcome.

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"To seek, to strive, to find and not to yield" - Alfred Tennyson

If they fit the bill and are required 'on the spot' then I'd let them have 'on the job' training.

Maybe even staying Chief Science Officer. A number of crew have held mutiple positions:

Spock: CSO and xo
Data: COO 2nd officer and perhaps even CSO?

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SIRSIG :D
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Quote:

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Originally posted by StyroFoam Man:
Why not do what is done in real-life?
Tina has a GED, two months at Burger-Fink, lost her arm in freakish shaving accident, has an IQ of -430 and wears a size 32DDD bra.... Looks like Tina gets the job...."
(edited 06-12-2001).]

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Why, what a nice thought! Good thing my science officer is a woman with the 'Sexy' advantage - that would mean I get the job easily. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"To seek, to strive, to find and not to yield" - Alfred Tennyson

Originally posted by Lancer:
Why, what a nice thought! Good thing my science officer is a woman with the 'Sexy' advantage - that would mean I get the job easily...

Sounds like the military, too...if you've got a third leg, get in line, otherwise...

As for changing brnaches. We had a chief engineer go to XO. He just changes branch as far as I'm concerned...then he's got to get up to speed fast on the stuff he doesn't know.

For the sci officer, really play up the sudden amount of paperwork: fitreps to sign, equipment to sign for, oversight on the other departments where she has little experience. Play up her weak points -- make her sink or swim.

This has always confused me. Can you not have an officer from one branch (say Chief Engineer) become the XO without changing dept. Like Spock in TOS, he was CSO and First Officer. As long as they have the Leadership skills necessary shouldn't they be able to just shift their postion in the chain of command.

I know it isn't Navy, but then again I am just a GROPO at heart. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

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In the Praetors Name!

Look in the TNG Core Book, pages 181 - 183. You will find the guidlines and suggestions for Promotion and Rank, Transferring Departments, and Transferring to a Larger Ship.

Wihle the second section, Transferring Departments, doesn't give mechanics for the process, if you look at all three sections, you should be able to come up with something that will suit you...

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"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
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In answer to phantom's question...if Starfleet's anything like the modern forces, then no...you don't need leadership skills. Just a very active ability to kiss ass and pass the blame.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by StyroFoam Man:

I try to add a bit of "gritty reality" to the Utopia of the Federaton. This promotion/reassignment thing never comes up in my games 'cause every one dies off so often.

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Everyone dies off? Jeeez man, you might want to take it easy on your players. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif

In my campaign, if the officer doesn't have most of the skills required already then they aren't qualified for the position. The person who would be picked is the one ready to do the job. If you're only missing a few, maybe a "pre-command" refresher course would fill in the blanks.

Becoming XO is slightly different than a straight branch transfer.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
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Quote:

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Originally posted by Paul:
Look in the TNG Core Book, pages 181 - 183. ... Wihle the second section, Transferring Departments, doesn't give mechanics for the process, if you look at all three sections, you should be able to come up with something that will suit you...

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The thing with the stuff in the corebook is this: I've always seen this more as suggestions than anything else. In particular I don't agree with the Promotion and Rank stuff. It seems to me the difference in required skills between Lt.Cmdr. and Commander is to big if you consider that a Lt.Cmdr. can serve in the same functions a Cmdr. does, just on a smaller ship.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Phantom:
This has always confused me. Can you not have an officer from one branch (say Chief Engineer) become the XO without changing dept. Like Spock in TOS, he was CSO and First Officer. As long as they have the Leadership skills necessary shouldn't they be able to just shift their postion in the chain of command.

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I guess this would for the most part depend on what job you have to do in your starting branch. My impression is, that in the TNG era the XO has a lot more paperwork to do than during TOS (can you remember Spock ever doing fitreps?).

If you picture the typical XO as someone who just acts as a stand-in for the CO sometimes and leads the occasional away-team you could possibly keep your original job. But if you think the XO has to do a lot of paperwork and bridge-duty it could be difficult.
After all you would possibly want your Chief-Engineer in Engineering and not on the bridge when the s*** really hits the fan.

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"To seek, to strive, to find and not to yield" - Alfred Tennyson

Im not sure... I think job description can also depend on the ship.

Remember the Defiant where some non-essential roles were multi-tasked.

Worf as XO and Tactical, and Jadzia as CSO and Conn.

That was to allow for such a small ships crew (50) to be as efficient as possible, and something I can easily understand.

Now on a Galaxy Class (or any of the other Large ships) the XO is a stand alone role, there is a large number of crew to seperate these other roles and allow greater diversification. But also the upkeep of a crew of 500+ is going to be a larger role than that of a ship with 100-odd crew.

Now this does get scuppered by Voyager (what doesn't?) but in that case the XO should be multi-role.

In the case of the larger ships, its a proving ground for potential captains, a slightly more advanced version of the same position on a smaller ship...

Can you see what Im getting at here?

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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts from a random mind!"
http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

In the Players Guide is written that you need to have the Commnd School TRaining to become XO. So he has to reenter Starfleet Acadamy. Additionally I would make some kind of test to see if he fits the new job :)

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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI


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Quote:

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Originally posted by Evan van Eyk:
In the Players Guide is written that you need to have the Commnd School Training to become XO.

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I really like the training packages from the Players Guide, but there is one thing about using them for XOs:
> If applied to someone from the Command Branch (ie. Command Overlay) the Bridge Officer + Command School Training packages lead to something like Command(Starship) 3(4).
> If applied to somebody from another branch you end up with Command(Starship) 1(3) and still have a character qualified to be an XO.

Now that's a big difference in skill levels. Another difference (albeit not as significant) would be in the Starship Tactics skill.
Would Starfleet really allow people with such different qualifications to do more or less the same job? My opinion is that this would depend largely on how important you judge the specializations to be, compared to the main skill. If you only use your Starship specialization of the Command skill most of the time there is not much difference, but if you go by the Command skill as a whole the difference is much more significant.

We are probably gonna do the position change in our game anyway, for the most part because there is no one else available for the job and we don't want to bring in an NPC for the job.

Still, keep the comments up people. I find it very interesting nonetheless. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

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"To seek, to strive, to find and not to yield" - Alfred Tennyson

Quote:

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Originally posted by Lancer:
I really like the training packages from the Players Guide, but there is one thing about using them for XOs:
> If applied to someone from the Command Branch (ie. Command Overlay) the Bridge Officer + Command School Training packages lead to something like Command(Starship) 3(4).
> If applied to somebody from another branch you end up with Command(Starship) 1(3) and still have a character qualified to be an XO.

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Sorry but you are wrong. To take this school you have to be at least Lt. Cmdr. In the Corebooks you'll see that for Lt. Cmdr. you have to have a primary departmental skill of 3. As you character changes to Command Branch ( which he has to, to take part in Command School ) his primary departmental skill becomes Command ( for an XO ) so he has to have 3 in it already. Then looking on the Spcecializations you get you also come up with Command ( Starship ) 3 ( 4 ) at least.
which would even qualify your character for the rank of Commander. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif You see ?


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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI


www.farrealms.de

Evan, your reasoning would only be correct if you apply the training packages from the Player's Guide and the promotion guidelines from the Core Rules. Personaly I have some difficulties following that line of thinking for several reasons:

1) Those promotion guidelines are just that - guidelines and not hard-and-fast rules as your post seems to suggest.

2) If you use both sets of rules for promotions you have the minimum skill levels from the Core Book plus the promotion points/training requirements from the Player's Guide. That seems a bit too much to me, since it places a lot of restrictions on promotions.

3) Do I really have to learn all those primary skills for the department before being allowed a change in branches? I would think that's not the case, mainly for the reason that some primary skills for the new department would be difficult to learn while you are still in your old job. (Learning Theoretical Engineering or Command or Medical Sciences in your free time? That's better taught by on-the-job training after the department change.)

4) Does the primary skill for a command officer really have to be 'Command'? You could fullfill the minimum skill level requirements with Law, Administration and Shipbord Systems skills and still qualify for the Lt.Commander job under the Core Bokk guidelines (p.182).
That would the still qualify me for the Lt.Cmdr. rank in your reasoning and therefore allow me to attend Command School, wouldn't it?

While following this thread I started thinking that Starfleet probably wouldn't require someone who changes branches to Command (or any other branch) to have the same skills as someone who started out in this branch from the beginning. After all Starfleet likes its officers to have some cross-training and experience in multiple fields of work.
If you require somebody who wants a change in departments to do nothing but learn new skills for several months you have one officer who can't do anything else during this time which strikes me as not being overly desirable.
Therefore I would say a request for a department change will probably be granted if the requirements set forth in the Core Book are met and someone is available to give some intensive on-the-job training right after the change in departments.

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"To seek, to strive, to find and not to yield" - Alfred Tennyson

Quote:

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Originally posted by Lancer:
Evan, your reasoning would only be correct if you apply the training packages from the Player's Guide and the promotion guidelines from the Core Rules. Personaly I have some difficulties following that line of thinking for several reasons:

2) If you use both sets of rules for promotions you have the minimum skill levels from the Core Book plus the promotion points/training requirements from the Player's Guide. That seems a bit too much to me, since it places a lot of restrictions on promotions.

3) Do I really have to learn all those primary skills for the department before being allowed a change in branches? I would think that's not the case, mainly for the reason that some primary skills for the new department would be difficult to learn while you are still in your old job. (Learning Theoretical Engineering or Command or Medical Sciences in your free time? That's better taught by on-the-job training after the department change.)

4) Does the primary skill for a command officer really have to be 'Command'? You could fullfill the minimum skill level requirements with Law, Administration and Shipbord Systems skills and still qualify for the Lt.Commander job under the Core Bokk guidelines (p.182).
That would the still qualify me for the Lt.Cmdr. rank in your reasoning and therefore allow me to attend Command School, wouldn't it?

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First of all I thought you were combining both systems, cause you spoke of the Command School.

to 2) think you did not understand the idea of the packages. They are no plus, but a way to reach teh according requirements, like in real life. You attend certain courses or trainings and then you have the qualification to command a ship or something like that.It just simulates the military training, i.e. how you get the necessary skills to be promoted or transfered to an according post.

to 3) well I always handle it that way, althought tought on the job is certainly not wrong but most probably stupid for an XO.
" Number One, make an Away Team and free this hostages with Starfleet Tactic 4-Alpha!"
- " 4- What? and how do I do it!" - "Oh, I forgot you are still in training." Hope you see what I mean. The XO has to be fully trained because he is the second man on the ship.
Why should Starfleet rely on XOs who are not trained if it has access to original Command Branch Officers who know the job? As a Captain would you want to have an XO who does not have an idea of commanding a ship or rather one who cane save your ships and crew if your are not available.

to 4) No absolutely not. E.G. a JAG Officer would have Law as Primary Departmental Skill. But an XO certainly has Command as primary departmental skill - because that's what he does most of the time, command a ships or away teams.


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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI


www.farrealms.de