Rick Berman's helming of Star Trek

as you all know, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga are being constantly attacked by the more hard-core ST fans. Those attacks are often tied with the theme that ST is dying.

Now, IIRC, Berman was handpicked by GR to be his sucessor. Berman was handed active control of TNG around the time of TNG's 3rd season, when GR's deteriorating health prevented him from actively supervising TNG. Would a lot if people agree that TNG became really good starting with season 3? The early 90's was when ST was at its most popular point ever, with the fresh success of ST6 and the ongoing popularity of TNG. Now, I think that the "power" behind ST6 was Leonard Nimoy but up until the end of TNG (1994) Berman hadn't screwed up.

Then ST:Generations came. Ok, it was a mediocre movie, but still watchable and it made a good amount of money. In the meantime we had DS9- the first 2 seasons were bad, but it got interesting with the Dominion threat. There are rumors that he copied B5, but even then, many feel a lot of DS9 episodes were at least as good, if not better, than many TNG episodes. The success of DS9 endured until 1999.

Again, in the meantime, we had Voyager. I think this is where Berman and co really started to get major flack. But then in 1996, we got ST: First Contact which is widely regarded as one of the best in the series, and it also got wide critical acclaim and it also did a lot of money.

So until that point (late 90's) one could argue that he did a fair job at helming ST in general.

It seems to me however that most of the criticism directed towards him came during that timeframe. In the late 90's (98-99) was the period when DS9 was ended, Voyager was the only ST on TV, and we got ST: Insurrection at the theatres. Then onwards on, the criticism got worse with the end of Voyager, the arrival of Enterprise and lately with the huge fiasco that Nemesis was.

My personal take on it is that he did a fair job for a good while, but lately (the last couple of years) he and his gang seem to have lost his (their) way...

care to comment??

I have nothing to add other than it's cool that we've got a user named "Snake Plissken" on the boards. :D

Over at Treknation there was a "gagle" [i.e. a story with alot of various points in it]" story on Berman. In it he talked about Blooper reels, but I though it it was intrigue for what it revealed in advertently:

"I have been opposed to gag reels simply because Star Trek is something that always borders on the silly. You've got people flying at impossible speeds and spaceships defying gravity. You've got a lot of things that are accepted, but that are almost scientifically ridiculous. It's so easy to turn it into a parody. I've been asked to put together an Enterprise blooper reel for a CBS project, and I agreed to do it. So I'm loosening up a little in that area."

If this suggests his basic attitude currently, that the show and premis is at base a silly concept then it explians why the show has lacked much imagination plus there disrespect for some of its basic fundementals. Why put new energy into somthing which might completely expose it for what it is in his warp mind [no pun intended]? On the Upside there seems to be alot of changes in store for UPN in the coming year consider the pis poor showing it has made this season.

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If this suggests his basic attitude currently, that the show and premis is at base a silly concept then it explians why the show has lacked much imagination plus there disrespect for some of its basic fundementals

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I'm not so sure. I agree completely with not doing bloopers, but I'd put it in a different way -

Instead of 'silly' how about 'it would spoil the magic of trek'. For example, I was at the Star Trek Adventure in London the other day, and I made the mistake of looking at some of props too closely....

...thus realising how cheap/silly some of them look - yet I think they look cool on screen.

I agree he didn't phrase it well, and that's an issue in of itself, but I think he meant well.

Basically, on the Berman issue - I thought seasons 1 and 2 of TNG were a load of trash. And then it got better, almost overnight. For that I thank him, but I think it's time for a change. Voyager and Enteprise have done that to me.

later days!

Mark

OK, I'll stick my neck out. . .

Other than the opening battle in First Contact what was it that everyone found so exciting about this movie?

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Originally posted by Don Mappin
I have nothing to add other than it's cool that we've got a user named "Snake Plissken" on the boards. :D

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He always looked taller on TV?

To be honest Snake, can I call you Snake? I think that Berman gets flak that was originally aimed at Braga, and most of that flak (while claimed to be about the destruction of all that is Trek) is mainly motivated out of helplessness (in that the average fan has little influence over the series direction), jealousy (in that many feel they could do better, whether they can or cant is something we will never know) and Pride (because many of us have grown up with trek, and feel we know it, having seen it as the edgy show cancelled for lack of ratings through to the Green Cash-Cow it has become)...

The simple fact is.

Trek makes money. Lots of it.

If adding wrestlers into the program gets viewers, if adding lyrics makes it hip, if making small changes goes unoticed by the target audience (who wasn't even born 35 years ago) works then whether Braga or Brannon do it or not, THATS what will be required by TPTB.

So whether they do it is up to them. they make entertainment for the masses. They make Entertainment I like. More power to them, even if the odd occasion goes against what I think... If I cared that much I'd find a way to be a decision maker...

Oh well, time to don the flame retardant suit for some of the comments I feel sure are going to get mis-quoted...

Hey, wasn't that eye patch on the other side a minute ago? :D

[Very minor Enterprise Season Two spoiler at bottom of this post]

Hmmm... First I need to state where I stand on modern Trek... Apathetic would probably be the best word. I didn't care for Voygager. I enjoyed the 1st season of Enterprise but the 2nd for some reason hasn't really engaged me. Not saying it's been "bad", more "ok". Now, to be honest, I've been through a lot of life changes (becoming a daddy, getting laid off and finding a new job, etc.), but I still go out of my way to catch "Law & Order" but I'm less excited about Enterprise of late.

As for Berman... I dunno, I agree with others that I think TNG got a heck of a lot better when he took over the show. What I find interesting though is his job there was to nurture it - he had nothing to do really with its creation, if i understand things correctly. I wonder if that means he isn't the best of architects but is a good manager?

Is Trek any worse than it was a decade ago? To be honest, probably. It seems a little less bold. I don't worry about "canon" as much as most people, but it's been a while since Trek pissed me off. And when I say pissed off, I mean that in a good way - I mean it challenged me in a way I didn't like. TNG managed to do it once a season at least, as did DS9.

If Berman is to "blame", then it might be because he's tired - that is an awfully long time on one job. ;) But I'm not even certain I'm right if it's gotten worse - I could be tired too. After seeing eight gazillion episodes, perhaps a feeling of sameness is inevitable. I'm probably going to wait for Nemesis to come out on DVD, not out of being spoiled by the script (I haven't been), but rather not being excited about it.

I'd agree that an intellectual shakeup would probably be a good thing.


Spoilers follow...







You were warned....

I am somewhat curious about an upcoming episode entitled "Stigma", which I believe is suppoed to be an AIDS allegory involving T'Pol.

Bottom padding spoiler space too for those scrolling past.
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b'bye.

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I could be tired too

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Agreed. I never know if it's them or me. I was in my early teens when TNG came out, and though I still love most of the epsiodes....

I'm wondering if the apathy is me getting old.

However, I agree that as long as it makes money then Berman is doing a good job. I've seen too many shows I've liked go up the swany (Crusade, Brimestone...) - some show is better then none.


However, if viewing figures of Ent are true - the rot has started. It may not be his fault, no-one can keep things going for this long...

later days!

Mark

I generally agree with your comments, Snake, although I feel that Brannon Braga's arrival signals the beginning of what I believe is a downturn in quality.

Nemesis has only made about $40 million so far. It will probably not pass the current low boxoffice record holder, which I believe is ST:V at around $55 million. I think the suits at Paramount would be wise to take a look at why Enterprise's ratings are dropping, and why Nemesis did so poorly.

Sometimes, it's necessary to bring in new talent. That doesn't automatically mean the old talent has gotten bad, so much as it has "burned out". New minds with fresh ideas are what's called for; and for all the money they've made, Paramount should let Berman and Braga take a swing at other shows -- but it should pull them from Trek.

YMMV.

It's like anyother Empire that has existed. The old Emperor (Roddenberry) works hard to to establish the Empire, he then passes out of the picture and the heirs (B&B) come in with a bunch of silly ideas and quickly run it into the ground. To quote Valarus "It is an old story."

I have to disagree with the 'burned out' idea, most of the trek writers are good, we just haven't seen any of their work lately. What is needed is new blood, pure and simple.

Someone wrote this on another site I frequent, and since I agree with all of it, I'm going to steal it and reprint it here:

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A few other folks have made some interesting story suggestions already, but I'll dive back in anyway.

MMK, here is the problem: Enterprise is set at a different time from the other modern Trek series, with a different setting and background to be explored, with different constraints, and so on. But instead of doing shows that arise from the show's premise, the producers seem to favor shows that could be done with very minimal changes on any other Trek series. It's the same thing that happened with Voyager.

Here's some of what I'd be thinking about if I were writing or producing Enterprise.

1. Cut back on the aliens. We're still fairly close to Earth, closer than TOS was, and they didn't encounter a new alien every week.

2. Explore the Earth colonies. Are they going to be part of the Federation once it gets going? Are they sovereign? Are they Earth national protectorates? Are they bold pioneers, ravagers and polluters, political or religious dissidents? Are they xenophobic about the alien races humanity is now encountering?

3. Explore Earth. What are people's attitudes there to Enterprise, space exploration, Vulcans, space colonies?

4. Explore Starfleet. Are more warp 5 starships under construction? As the fleet grows, will Enterprise's mission change?

5. Explore boomer culture. They're the real heroes, taking risks in space without Vulcan help and without fast and well-armed ships. It can't be hard to come up with more than one story about them. Are they agitating for warp 5 tech to be made available to civilians? Do they see Starfleet as a threat, an impediment, a protector? Are they starting their own colonies, building their own space stations?

6. GIVE TRAVIS MAYWEATHER SOMETHING TO DO! He's got more space experience than the rest of the regulars. There must be situations in which he could offer useful advice or a different perspective. He'd certainly be handy in more boomer stories.

7. Finish the Suliban/temporal cold war quickly. It's produced some good episodes, but, as with the X-Files and its mythology episodes, the importance of it all fades to insignificance when you go back to weeks of business as usual without even thinking about this threat to your existence.

8. Don't try to recreate the TOS Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic. Archer, T'Pol, and Tucker can't pull it off. Their characters just aren't as well defined, and the acting isn't as strong. Try to develop an ensemble feel. Bring in more regulars if necessary. (Bring back Ensign Elizabeth Cutler, for a start.)

In short, Enterprise needs to do stories that only Enterprise can do, just as DS9 did stories that only DS9 could do.

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Originally posted by Snake_Plissken
Now, IIRC, Berman was handpicked by GR to be his sucessor. Berman was handed active control of TNG around the time of TNG's 3rd season, when GR's deteriorating health prevented him from actively supervising TNG. Would a lot if people agree that TNG became really good starting with season 3? The early 90's was when ST was at its most popular point ever, with the fresh success of ST6 and the ongoing popularity of TNG. Now, I think that the "power" behind ST6 was Leonard Nimoy but up until the end of TNG (1994) Berman hadn't screwed up.

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IIRC, it was Paramount that pressured GR to pick Rick Berman. I would be interested who were the other choices.

Nevertheless, Rick Berman was a good choice at the time.

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Then ST:Generations came. Ok, it was a mediocre movie, but still watchable and it made a good amount of money. In the meantime we had DS9- the first 2 seasons were bad, but it got interesting with the Dominion threat. There are rumors that he copied B5, but even then, many feel a lot of DS9 episodes were at least as good, if not better, than many TNG episodes. The success of DS9 endured until 1999.

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IMHO, the first two season of DS9 were not bad. I was skeptical about spotlighting a lengthy war for DS9. But with the right people like Ira Steven Behr and Ron D. Moore, it managed to tell the stories and not just the war but other events surrounding the stations in that timeline.

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Again, in the meantime, we had Voyager. I think this is where Berman and co really started to get major flack. But then in 1996, we got ST: First Contact which is widely regarded as one of the best in the series, and it also got wide critical acclaim and it also did a lot of money.

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Basically, they got a very good character story to film FC, that it overshadows some questionable elements like the casting of Cochrane.

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So until that point (late 90's) one could argue that he did a fair job at helming ST in general.

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I concur ... up until this point.

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It seems to me however that most of the criticism directed towards him came during that timeframe. In the late 90's (98-99) was the period when DS9 was ended, Voyager was the only ST on TV, and we got ST: Insurrection at the theatres. Then onwards on, the criticism got worse with the end of Voyager, the arrival of Enterprise and lately with the huge fiasco that Nemesis was.

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Berman chose Brannon Braga to replace the departing Jeri Taylor and Michael Piller as producer of VOY. Braga then cast Jeri Ryan as the Borg Babe crewmember Seven of Nine, in which he began a relationship following her divorce.

When DS9 ended, Braga asked his one-time friend Ron D. Moore to join the VOY writing staff. Ron stayed there briefly but left before the first episode of the season started airing, citing a very iron-fisted leadership and hostile working environment (he mentioned this in a four-part interview in Cinescape).

Braga have comment time and time again that he view continuity as a crutch and would rather ignore them. He even accused longtime fans like us as "continuity pornographers." While he ignores the longtime fans, he began to attract new fans with a bit more sex appeal, even cast a professional wrestler to appeal the other UPN audience (fans of WWE Smackdown!), which is growing larger than VOY audience.

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My personal take on it is that he did a fair job for a good while, but lately (the last couple of years) he and his gang seem to have lost his (their) way...

care to comment??

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I won't ignore his past accomplishments. But I cannot ignore his recent endeavors. When an employees who once did well in his youth started to slack off in the company after ten years or so and not producing any positive contribution to the company's current status, perhaps it is better to find someone else.

You know, I tend to concur with Styro here that Star Trek may be suffering from what I call the Expert sydrome (you know, like going to a concert with a specialist of this type of music who painstakingly details every minor mistake the performers do and thus completely spoils the show for you).
The fan base has grown a lot since the 80s thanks to TNG's success, and this increase has been accompanied by a a lot of different interpretations of the ST universe, what it should be, and what is nice in the series.
Now, we've reached a point where so many people like ST for so many different reasons that, no matter what a series or episode concept is, you'll find a consequent number of fans who won't like it (either it doesn't fit their image of Trek, or a point that's very important to them is not taken into consideration, or something else that irks them), and since the naysayers are always the loudest, this gives a bad image of the show and may discourage people who felt merely ambivalent about it.
Maybe also long-term fans are not entirely objective as far as ST is concerned. For instance, I don't know Star Trek for a long time (6 years ago I thought it was some sort of series clone of Star Wars, wich BTW is rather ironic since I didn't know SW either - and still do, more or less), and so far enjoyed every series I've watched (well a bit less for TOS since it's rather hard to completely ignore the cheesy effects, especially when you just watched a DS9 episode from the last seasons). Of course, there are some episodes I loathe, series and characters I like better than others, but on the overall I'm just happy to watch some Trek.

That being said, I also agree that ENT second season is a bit disappointing. I mean, I recently saw Cold Front (yeah, I'm a bit late), and I vaguely know what the second season's episodes have been about so far; hey, why do they readapt old TNG or DS9 episodes instead of focusing on this interesting Temporal Cold War ?
Then again, TNG's first two seasons were quite bad, and DS9's had almost nothing to do with the rest of the series (no Emissary thing, no Dominion, no war...)

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Originally posted by C5

DS9's had almost nothing to do with the rest of the series (no Emissary thing, no Dominion, no war...)

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I beg to differ.

What I meant was that the first 2 seasons had a very different atmosphere and type of plots than the rest of the series (not that they were of inferior quality, mind you - more the contrary IMHO, since for instance the Ferengi were still interesting then).
For instance, Sisko's Emissary title is mentionned in the last episode of the 1st season for the first time since the pilot, and not much during the second. Prophets are enigmatic, godlike entities who don't seem to understand humans well, and the story is focused heavily on Bajorans - who are a lot less present in the last seasons of DS9. The following seasons (especially past season 4), have a stronger coherence, and are overall darker and more action-packed than the 2 firsts. And of course the story focuses more on faith, the relationship between Sisko and the Prophets, and the war and its consequences.

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Originally posted by C5
For instance, Sisko's Emissary title is mentionned in the last episode of the 1st season for the first time since the pilot, and not much during the second. Prophets are enigmatic, godlike entities who don't seem to understand humans well, and the story is focused heavily on Bajorans - who are a lot less present in the last seasons of DS9. The following seasons (especially past season 4), have a stronger coherence, and are overall darker and more action-packed than the 2 firsts. And of course the story focuses more on faith, the relationship between Sisko and the Prophets, and the war and its consequences.

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REG is right...

Sisko's place as Emissary came up several times in this period. During the events of the Circle's uprising, where they had to make up a title for Li Nalas to make him the Emissarys equal...

Most of Kai Winns election was based on Politics that involved Sisko as Emissary during a period when he was ill-attuned to the role...

Winn's election as Kai was a setup for later events...

The various mentions of the 'ominous Dominion' from the Ferengi trades... As the sole power that you do not wish to upset if you do business in the Gamma Quadrant.

Granted this was all fairly low-key, but dont kid yourself that the events were not there leading into the grander plot.


However, REG, I believe what C5 meant was that the style of the first couple of seasons off DS9 were very different, and in this, he is correct. As the series needed that time to differentiate itself from 'TheEnterprise' to find its legs and focus on its characters... Before leading into the previously little used (in trek) extensive story arc...

Thanks for explaining what I said, Dan :D

(basks in the joy of DS9 talk)

One more month for the DS9 DVDs.... :)

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Originally posted by C5
Thanks for explaining what I said, Dan :D

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Thats OK, I wasn't born with these mind reading and communicative powers for nothing.

Oh Wait. Thats should be;
'I wasn't born with mind reading or communicative powers'

Damn.

I think Berman is honastly trying to guide Trek in the proper direction (if he doing a good job is another story). However Bragas attitude and his disregard for continuity is killing the franchise

While bringing 7 on board would make for interesting stories, His way to much overuse of her hur the series (We won't mention the fact that he started going out wih her)

It would be nice if Braga was let go and they bring Moore back in for Enterprise (as unlikely as this is to happan, i know, but i can dream)

Enterprise should start using more of it's other character's They started to develop the Dr. a little more which is nice, Let's see some Exposition on Hoshi, Travis and Reed now!

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How so? Wife and I enjoyed it much more then Insurrection. Not being Tolkin fans, we've gone to see Nemesis 4 times now, and we've enjoyed it all four times. (For the record, SHE wanted to go see it again twice. )

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I didn't say Nemesis was bad, as a matter of fact I think it is a rather good movie (but with fairly big problems). But in commercial terms it is a dismal failure, wether you liked the movie or not.

Well, I just remembered that Braga wasn't involved (I think) with DS9... and DS9 seems to have very few detractors compared to Voyager or Enterprise.

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I still don't see exactly what is wrong with Enterprise besides the continuity and what was wrong with Voyager. I despise TOS, and am not sure why. Something about it just kills my nerves.

I try and keep an open mind to these things....:)

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Originally posted by Lt Cmdr Matt
I despise TOS, and am not sure why. Something about it just kills my nerves.

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Must be the beeping background noise (what the hell is it supposed to be anyway)... :D

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Originally posted by Karg

It would be nice if Braga was let go and they bring Moore back in for Enterprise (as unlikely as this is to happan, i know, but i can dream)

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I doubt it would happen. As most of you recalled the four-part Cinescape interview with Ron D. Moore, he talked about his short brief stint during the summer production of VOY after DS9 ended. He then went to Rick Berman to complain about the hostile working environment under Braga's iron-fisted leadership. But Rick Berman sided with Braga. Ron D. Moore then resigned before the first episode of the season aired.

Suffice to say, it ended the friendships.

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Originally posted by ComaBoy
OK, I'll stick my neck out. . .

Other than the opening battle in First Contact what was it that everyone found so exciting about this movie?

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Let's make that two necks. I found FC to better than Generations (or Insurrection), but nowhere near as solid as TWOK nor as well paced as TUC nor as overall entertaining as TVH.

My main problem with FC is that its dramatic arch has a pretty low profile, meaning that in terms of dramatic spikes and rising tension and all that, it starts with a bang, plateaus, and then pretty much stays on that plateau for the rest of the film.

I'm not a continuity freak, so I got over the odd transformation of the Borg from a collective into a hive with a queen.

I'll third it.

The tension and drama on the Enterprise in FC is badly undercut by the 'comedy' on the surface, leaving the film feeling mismatched and badly paced, IMHO.

Insurrection works better even though it is a more low-key and lighter film.

But none compare to the excellent TWoK, with its subtexts, tension, sacrifice, stunning battle and top-notch villian. Or the sheer exuberance that is TVH.

Once again, I must ask: Where the hell is Nicholas Meyer?

I mean is there some kind of bad blood betwen Meyer and Berman?

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Originally posted by Kirok
I'm not a continuity freak, so I got over the odd transformation of the Borg from a collective into a hive with a queen.

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I always assumed that the Queen was just another adaption to try and deal with a particularly annoying species that happens to be chatty. The social equivilant of a nifty new ray-gun. I get the impression that Voyager makes her to be a separate personality though. I haven't seen any of the Voyager Borg episodes (or much Voyager at all, really), so that may have changed. :confused:

I'm with REG. Save us, Nick!

I'm going to side with those of you who said the creative team needs some new blood. Since Enterprise permiered, I have been nothing more than apathetic about it. I was excited to hear Scott Bakula was cast as the captain. And who can deny JoLen Blalock is an excellent Vulcan? However, the characters are lacking something. I don't fault the actors for this, I fault their material.

When I think about Captains, the ones that come to mind are Picard, Sisko and Kirk. These guys were larger than life. My favorite series is DS9. I think Avery Brooks projected a particular presence that I could feel flow through the screen when I watched him. However, it wasn't all Brooks, it also involved a well developed character. It's much the same way for those of you who are into the roleplaying game. As a GM, or player, you want to make a character that has that "something." I think that is what the characters of Enterprise are lacking. This is sad, because some actors with tremendous potential are involved. The series has just failed to "grab me" or perhaps I should say "beam me up" as a fan.

I disagree with anybody who says the franchise itself is tired. All you have to do is pick up one of many good Star Trek novels. Again, being a DS9 fan, I would reccomend all the recent novels from that series, especially those by S. D. Perry, and the excellent Millenium trilogy. Wow, these writers have some awesome ideas. Let's get them to write some scripts! I have supplanted my need for good Trek with reading. Also, I am lucky that TNG and DS9 reruns air EVERY day in my area.

The problem can easily become a creator becoming tired (perhaps without his knowing) with his work. There are many examples. Look at the X-Files. In the beginning, Chris Carter was brilliant. However, I went from never wanting to miss an episode of the show to not really caring about it at all. The same could even be said of the first three Star Wars movies vs. what we have today. However, I believe that some great creative minds are out there waiting to step into Berman and Bragga's shoes. These men have done great things for the ST universe. Now, I think they should step down from the Captain's seat and let a new commander take over. The problem is, no captain wants to relinquish control of his ship. Just ask our beloved Capt. Kirk.

I also agree that some fresh blood on the Paramount lot would be welcome. Take Berman out of the creative area and keep him the final yea/nay man, but get some fresh, non-Trek producers, writers, etc in there to really turn things around.

Or just get Ira Steven Behr back. That would work for me. :)

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Originally posted by Ineti
I also agree that some fresh blood on the Paramount lot would be welcome. Take Berman out of the creative area and keep him the final yea/nay man, but get some fresh, non-Trek producers, writers, etc in there to really turn things around.

Or just get Ira Steven Behr back. That would work for me. :)

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If you keep him in the yea/nay postion then he still is in charge of the production effort, and still able to infiltrate his drivel into a story. And if any writer disagrees then they'd be out, possibly destroying good story potential.

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Originally posted by Phantom
If you keep him in the yea/nay postion then he still is in charge of the production effort, and still able to infiltrate his drivel into a story. And if any writer disagrees then they'd be out, possibly destroying good story potential.

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Hmm. Well, in that case, we need to infiltrate Paramount and replace Berman with a pod-person bent to our will. :D

It might be that Paramount would like to replace Berman. Certainly, the dismal performance of Nemesis would lead me to take a hard look at him, if I was an executive there. Likewise the diminishing share of Enterprise.

But they might have a fundamental problem: no one to hand the reins to. Berman's been doing the job so long, he certainly has a tremendous wealth of knowledge, and it's known how he works with all the key players. I assume if they remove him, they would also have to remove his protege Braga (otherwise, what would be the point: Berman likes Braga because they think alike). That would leave ... who? Ron Moore? Busy doing other things. Likewise Ira Behr. And they'll think really hard before they give an unknown the center seat.

Moonves is too smart not to be thinking about a changing of the guard, given his desire to keep the Trek brand strong (at least at Paramount -- and Moonves is respected throughout Viacom). But his options might be very limited.

So change all the key players the new head of Trek would be involved with. :) Then hire a new head of Trek whether s/he knows Trek or not. If s/he doesn't know Trek, sit 'em down and have them watch select episodes from all series, and some of the good movies. Then show 'em select crap episodes and Star Trek V.

Then say, "Go forth and create a new Trek in the spirit of the original."

Can it really be all that hard?

Hmph. The only way to keep the brand strong is to give the franchise a much-needed hiatus. All you're doing is wearing the brand out.

Glad to see some good spirit regarding DS9 around here... :)

I too, would love to see Ira et al in charge again... but let's face it, DS9 was not the best recieved... and it wasn't TOO thinly veiled that Berman wasn't all that happy about DS9 either. Kinda sad that Voy was so much more of a pet to the big wigs.

Does Star Trek need a hiatus? Maybe. I don't hate Enterprise... I am just not enthusiastic about it. In a way I think Enterprise, because of the time frame, should be less like Voyager or TOS (both of which it seems to be aiming at) and more like DS9. The galaxy is smaller for the Enterprise people. Where are the established aliens like the Tellarites? Maybe we can get some interesting stories about that. Go deep into the known aliens (and come on, as much as I love Tholians, I am afraid of how they would portray them) and have them show us a reason they got together to form Starfleet and the Federation!

*looks around*

Oops... off my soapbox now.

Good points Odoital. Here we have a wonderful opportunity for the Star Trek franchise to show us the actual foundation of the Federation. However, what we have is a typical alien of the week adventure series going on. I admit, I like the Suliban story, and perhaps it is the only thing I really like about the series now. However, aren't the writers & producers missing a golden opportunity to tell us the tale of how the Federation came to be? I know, the show focuses on the voyages of a Starship, but I think it is still possible to tell that story. After all, First Contact was a movie about the voyage of a Starship, and it gave us the story of the first human achieving warp drive. How much harder would it be for Enterprise to give us all the wonderful politics of the Federations founding in an engaging subplot?

I don't think the premise of setting a show in the pre-Federation times if flawed. However, the execution of it in this case I see as severely flawed. :cool:

Kosst Amojan, sounds like you are a fan of DS9, and maybe more open to an over-arching theme than Berman and Co. I understand where they want to to the exploration thing and I like that aspect of Trek myself... but why throw the series backwards in time, when you don't also focus on the foundation of what we know? Are they just going to keep introing new aliens with new and better tech every week? (eg. how come the roms had cloaked mines more efficient than the ones Rom could cook up 2 centuries later?)

Oh well. I figured we'd agree on much trek things anyway kosst... your sig is my favorite line in trek. :)