To Dependant

I am having some trouble with the players in my group. They seem incredibly dependant on their ship and their Captain.
In our last game their ship was in an area of space which drains power from starships. Coming across a drifting Constitution class ship the four characters were beamed over to establish what had happened to ship and transfer over any dilithuim crystals and batteries.
They soon established some kind of mind controlling entity had taken over the ship. It was quite fun watching them run through all the likely suspects from the Classic and Next Gen series.
Trouble started when they found the sickbay had been transformed into a suspended animation room. They suddenly became incredibly cautious and asked for more and more equipment from the Captain.
As power was a concern he drew the line at sending them a remote camera so they didn't have to actually go into sickbay to see what was in there. They even tried to convince the Captain to beam over the whole of sickbay.
As soon as they broke contact with the Captain they immediatly complained about his command decisions.
This has happened in previous games. They want lots and lots of help from the ship so they don't have to put themselves in danger. As soon as a situation arises where they can't do that they fall apart.
Anyone got any tips on making them more self reliant when the ship is around without hating the senior staff?

Try the old "downed shuttlecraft" trick. Have them go on some mission, by themselves, in a runabout, or similar vehicle. Then during, or on the way back, have the runabout "develope" some catastrophic problem that will force them down on an unknown planet. It will force them to work together and use their own minds, instead af falling back the ship and its resources. Leave them with just enough resources to either eventually fix the ship or make some type of communication device to call for help. In the mean time introduce them to the indigenous lifeforms, somewhat dangerous ones of course. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

I know its an old trick, but I think it will work in your case.

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In the Praetors Name!

Well I did have them go down undercover on a frontier world. They had their comm badges stolen cutting them off from the ship. Unfortunatly they got into a brutal fight with Klingons and joined the Maquis.
At the end of the scenario on the Constellation their own ship warped away as it had been taken over by a captured Vorta. So now they're on a 100 yr old ship with very little power unable to contact any other ship. That should put them to the test.
I looking for any suggestions on how to have the senior staff say "NO" to the characters without the players resenting it.

I've had a similar problem with my player before. He always seems to rely on the NPC security officers to get him out of firefights, while he just stands there and Dodges whenever he gets shot at.

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"Please rush me my portable walrus polishing kit, eight super brushes guaranteed to clean even the stickiest seabound mammals. Yes I am over 18, even though my IQ isn't."

Hey Esherman... Your case sounds easy...

Sounds like your player isn't too keen on firefights. A rarity in the RPG biz... :P

What you need to do is remove the fights and replace them with a puzzle, meanwhile surrounding him with even more junior officers (or plain old crewmen)...

Then when he reaches the puzzles have them all look to him for leadership, or simply tell him that "I dunno sir."

Alternatively if he DOES enjoy the combat, get him into planning, so he can organise and arrange the fight. Either let him have an un-named NPC security guard or have them follow his orders to the letter... Or simply have an ambush capture his character while the main force engages the security guards around him...

See how that alters things.

Go on, be evil! Whats the worst that could happen?

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Dan.

"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

Is the Captain an PC or NPC? Not that it really matters, but it's handy to know.

What you need to drum into your players is the following: "Even in this age of incredible technology, the Mind is still the most powerful weapon we have".

I agree with the others: put your players in a situation where they have no equipment to use, except for what they can scrounge and/or improvise. Make them sole a puzzle (or save their own necks) without the benefit of a starship's resourses. If they can roleplay their way out of it, then (hopefully) they will have learned a valuable roleplaying lesson.

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"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
- The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams (dec.)

The Captain is an NPC so whenever he denies them something they mutter about "evil GM". Despite the fact I am very easy going on them.
The group does seem to have a problem where they keep asking others to do the hard work. For example if they decide they need to consult the computers they're get a NPC to look for the info.
In one game the ship was about to come into conflict with an alien species. The Captain assigned the players characters to work together to come up with as much information as possible that could be used during battle.
Instead they all went to their quarters and went to sleep. They were all awakened by red alert and rushed to the bridge to find the ship under attack.
When the Captain asked for the information they had gathered they all lied and claimed there was either nothing useful on record or nothing at all.
The ship barely made it out alive thanks mainly to the characters actually consulting the computer and find out the piece of information that could defeat the aliens.
The Captain wasn't pleased when he found out that all the information they needed was there from the start.
I thought that would teach them to be more self-reliant and do things themselves but little luck there.

Sounds like they need a 'special assignment', or better yet. Their f - ups coulkd cause their careers toi become stagnated and soon all the NPC's will outrank them, and then, as the lowest link in the chain of command, there IS nobody for them to be getting to work for them.

Or how about this. Make them face the concequenses of their actions. They lied and lost the faith of their captain.
Have him transfer their arses, and have their captain explain his reasons...

Put them on a freighter with the ONLY NPC being the captain (maybe a old half-drunk space hog, definatly someone of little use to them), sure its a promotion 'of sorts' but far more a sideways move than upwards. And that will give them an opportunity to regain respect and reputation off their own merit and ability.

It might stagnate your campaign temporarily while the lessons are learnt, but it sounds like you may as well be sitting there telling a story in the meantime anyway. So perhaps the change may provide the motivation, or simply shake them out of an 'It'll be OK, were the heroes!' mindset.

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Dan.

"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

Ether, There is an adventure in the Tactical section of the Trek-Net-RPG page that might be of use to you, "Passageway". Now I wouldn't go as far as destroying the PC's main ship (But it might be needed), I found that a runabout or shuttle-craft works just as well. Personally I've never had the problem you've described, I have just the opposite, all the players want to be the first- into a room, on the planet, to return fire (and boy do they love to return fire http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif ), etc...
I do have a few problem characters, but not problem players. The only question I keep asking myself is why did I let him play a Kzinti http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/eek.gif.

Phoenix...

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

Thanks everyone for the help.
I've come up with the following scenario ideas to teach them some lessons :-
BEFORE THEIR TIME:
The USS Aurora is called into help the USS Voyager which is on its way to the Badlands. Strange aliens keep appearing and attacking the staff.
When they arrive they find out that the aliens live outside time and pry on beings who will die shortly (so their loss will cause minimual disruption). They recoil from beings that will be important for along time.
During this scenario several senior staff members of the Aurora are attacked including the Captain clearly indicating they will die soon.
INVISIBLE GUARDIAN:
The characters are assigned to take the Defiant to DS9. They are put in charge of the vessel and told not to decloak until reaching the station.
On the way they will pick up a SOS from a Federation colony under attack by Breen pirates.
This will put them in a tough spot and give them a taste of what it means to be in command.
TARNISHED MIRROR:
After arriving at DS9 the characters are assigned to simple duties while they wait for the Aurora to pick them up.
During this time they end up in the Mirror universe. Now this will really make them depend on each other as there is NO Starfleet to help them at all.

What does everyone think? Will this sort them out?

I hope so. Although I can see possible repercssions to these, but thats from my brain, it may not qualify for your group...

BEFORE THEIR TIME:
I forsee your group backing up these 'soon to be dead', letting the senior crew soften anything up before taking over and finishing the job taking all the credit.

Although this is pretty sneaky.

INVISIBLE GUARDIAN:
Give them a taste of command. Your damn right. But have a response if a player asks where Sisko is...

I have to admit, giving a ship from the shows, especially a warship (whatever Starfleet might call it) seems like a reward and might give the wrong message accross.

Although if a player remembers that Sisko was on the Defiant when it was delivered from Utopia Planetia, then you can have some fun with the ships flaws.

When new it was over-powered and not particularly efficient, so have fun with the systems, downgrade them, lower the power outpuit, that kind of thing...

TARNISHED MIRROR:

Mirror universe is good, but are you sure the players can get their arse in gear enough to get them out of the situation?

Of course it could be fun if you have them meeting their mirror selves. If they are hesitant, and background players, then have their mirror selves get gung ho and 'take-charge'...

All I can really suggest is to have a ball!!!

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Dan.

"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

Quote:

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Originally posted by StyroFoam Man:
Assign them to a small Owen E. Oberth-class ship and put them in charge... "It's been modified to only need 5 crewmembers, the rest of the space is taken up with this here ulta-super-mega computer. She's all yours! Enjoy!!!" And OF COURSE the computer goes wonky and they either fix it or they end up dead.

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AND give the computer the personality of Eddie the Computer (HHGTTG) - you know, real annoying-like ('Hi there! It's great to be working with you again. I'd just love to find the answer to that problem for you!' and so on...). That ought to sort them out... http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif

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"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
- The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams (dec.)

It sounds like your players are not only dependent upon the Captain, but equipment-happy.

A couple of scenarios recommend themselves:

SURVEY/SURVIVAL
A first contact or cultural observation team has gone awry and the team must be rescued. Arriving to investigate, the away team is cut off from the ship. Assume communications can be traced and capture is an unpleasant alternative (perhaps 'outsiders' are interrogated and 'rehabilitated' ... perhaps throw in the word 'assimilated' as a red herring). For equipment, they only have their standard kit (tricorder, phaser, medkit), and whatever they might be able to obtain on the open market.

Place the mission goal on a timeline, so the players must make timely decisions and actions. Keep them moving and off balance, not knowing when the locals might suspect their true identities and move in.

Allow them to fail if their actions do not support success, with the cultural observers lost or unretrieveable. The players must face the consequences of their actions - if not immediately to the Captain, then in a subsequent mission.

INCAPACITATED
Try a variation on 'First Mission' or 'Good Shepherd' (Yikes, did I actually recommend a Voyager episode?). Put the players on a runabout with fixed equipment, then place them in a situation where the Captain is injured, and they have to make the call as to what to do.

Again, there's a time limit, namely the Captain's well being. While it is acceptable to abort the mission in favor of getting the Captain to the ship for treatment, the mission should be important enough that it remains a consideration. See if they're willing to make the tough call and sacrifice their crutch.

Bob

Try this:
The captain is replaced by a Founder/ android/ another changeling species...
Well, you get the idea, and the PC have seen something insignificant, but the imposter don't want to risk and began to send the PC to risky missions with minimal resources.

Look at it from the character's point of view. They have to examine a dangerous space aboard an abandoned ship.

Do they ask the Captian to send over the remote drone sitting in the cargo bay, or do they try to gin something up on site?

Unless you give them a reason why they CAN'T rely on the resources of their vessel... why shouldn't they? That's what it's there for.

Can you see the opposite of this situation: "Commander Smith, you lost two people on this mission... why didn't you ask for the remote drone that's just taking up space in our cargo bay?" "Sir, I didn't want to seem too reliant on the resources of the ship..." "Idiot! People are more valuable than equipment! Starfleet gives us a ship with all this nifty gear for us to use! Otherwise we'd be hitchiking between stars. If you don't want to rely on the ship, you can rely on the resources of remote monitoring station 23432... you are transfered effective immediately."

Or the Board of Inquiry for the Captain:
"Captain Smith, the record clearly shows that two of your crew were lost when they were unable to properly anylize a compartment aboard an abandoned vessel, whereupon they entered the compartment, became exposed to technobabble, and were turned into ferrets. Can you explain to the Board why you refused their request for a proper scanning device, one of which had been sitting in your cargo bay for six months without use?" "Sir, I didn't want them to be overly reliant on the resources of the ship" "Well, Captain, now they are reliant on the resources of the San Diego Zoo."

Give them a plasible reason, or let them use it. I always used to wonder why Kirk & Co. ever bothered to take phasers and communicators on away missions, since they never worked anyway.


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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[This message has been edited by calguard66 (edited 07-10-2001).]

Well power was draining from ship so that was an issue. They were in space suits so protected from the enviroment. Their tricorders showed that there wasn't any radiation or the like.
The main reason that they didn't want to enter the room was fear. There was nothing in there that four able bodied starfleet officers couldn't have coped with.
The characters didn't give a good enough reason for not going in and just checking what was in suspended animation.
In my mind I recalled only one incident in which a remote camera was used and that was due to extreme circumstances.
At no point has any away team said " Captain, we don't like it here, can you send a remote camera instead?"

Some additional thoughts ...

As the narrator, you have the ultimate say over what resources the starship does or does not possess. The remote camera is not an issue if there isn't one available.

Items shown in other episodes are not necessarily onboard or even within a character's personal experience. While the player may know the intricacies of a Soong-class android, the character would not without the appropriate skill and specialization.

And while the LCARS is a seemingly endless collection of data, in game terms, it only knows what the Narrator allows. Log entries from other ships are likely to be inaccessible; other data may be restricted by rank and security concerns. (And woe betide the character who deigns to suggest the Captain 'look something up' for them. Pertinent information would have been disseminated in the Away Mission Briefing.)

As far as character resentment goes, there's a time and place for disputing orders and situations. If you crack down on equipment and information as above, you might conduct an after-action report at the end of the session ... go over key areas of concern and see what worked, and what didn't, from a character point-of-view. Did the character actually need the multiphasic pulse modulator? What indications were there to suggest alternate courses of action? And so on.

Bob

[This message has been edited by Robert Lai (edited 07-10-2001).]

I guess it all comes down to how well the players are roleplaying their characters.

If the players are having their characters act over-cautious due to player fear of What's Behind Door Number 2, then they need to be placed in situations where the player caution will work against them.

If the players are having the characters act overly cautious due to the character's bad experiences in similar situations, naturally over-cautious personality, and so on, then have the Captain order the PC to spend time with the ship's Counsellor to work through the personality quirks (as an officer who will not venture into the unknown - one of the primary charters of Starfleet - is ultimately a liability to the organisation, and would be given a nice cushy desk-job or a position commanding a courier run). Of course, if the Counsellor is a PC also, then that makes it a little harder...but the NPC Captain can make these things clear to the PC in a private conversation... http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif

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"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
- The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams (dec.)

I've GMed another game concerning this issue and I think the players might have learnt their lesson.
They were giving the prestiges job of flying the Defiant to DS9, with one of the characters as the Acting Captain and the others as the senior staff members.
Their orders were not to decloak, to maintain communication silence and to proceed straight to DS9.
Of course after two days of travelling at Warp 6 they picked up a distress call from a colony under attack by Breen pirates.
As expected they diverted to help and came upon the Breen ship orbiting the Colonists ocean world.
Using the element of surprise they decloaked and fired all weapons destroying the vessel. Luckily the Vulcan engineer beamed the Breen off the ship and on to an island on the planet.
Scanning the Colony base they found that the Breen had beamed most of their crew down and had occupied the area. In total there were 320 armed Breen.
The colony leader contacted the Defiant and explained the Breen said they would start killing hostages unless they were provided with safe passage off the planet.
The Captain refused to discuss terms and shut down communications. Immediatly sensors picked up energy fire and the deaths of colonists.
The crew mulled the situation over and decided to beam the Breen away. However the transporters could only beam 30 people at a time so it was going to take some time.
As the Breen swept through the base, killing anyone they saw and were slowly transportered away the Captain sent communication transmission apologising and saying they were going as fast as they could.
When the last Breen was beamed on to the uninhabited island the Captain explained to the colony leader that they shouldn't have broken communication silence and that the colonists were going to have to contact the Federation themselves.
Arriving at DS9 they handed in their reports and were called to Sisko's office. He dressed them down for not beaming an away party down to contain the Breen rather than just sitting in orbit and watching people die. In total 210 colonists were killed before the Breen were beamed away.
He also pointed out they had the element of surprise and could have beamed in undetected if not for their devastating attack on the Breen ship.
Sisko said it was a difficult situation and considering their ranks they did well but there was they still needed to do better. Hopefully they will learn from this mistake.
At the end the players realised they could have handed things better and that they had relied to much on the ship rather than their crew.