Highway manners

Okay, given an ongoing disagreement in another forum, I am posting this poll as a sort of informal survey. Assume the following:

A driver on a major highway is coming up on a construction site. Several miles before the construction begins, there are signs saying "left lane closed ahead" "use right lane," etc.

Traffic is backed up bumper-to-bumper in the right lane.

However, this driver continues to drive in the left lane, passing up the cars stopped in the right lane. He figures, "I haven't reached the merge point yet, why waste a perfectly good lane?"

This person is... what? (See poll responses)

This person is...Machiavellian.

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Originally posted by Niner
This person is...Machiavellian.

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That guy is usually me. Why waste a good lane when it's available? It's not like driving on the shoulder to get past the slow/stopped traffic (to any Italians on the board, that tactic is actually illegal in the United States ;) ).

Machiavellian is a good term...although I generally use "efficient." :p

I call them Herd Monkeys.

Of course the other terms would be "egotistical" or "selfish", but that just grates agains the "independent spirit".

Although you are told in kindergarten to play fair and share your toys, the praise always go to those who get ahead by any means (as long as they don't get caught).

...a prime target for my Walther. Welcome to New Mexico, #$%@bag!

It depends. Usually, I use this tactic too, but try to merge with the right line some time before the end of the left line. OTOH, I can be very annoyed when I see some people doing this and actually being the cause of the right lane slowing.

I'm perfectly fine with it until total traffic throughput gets slowed down because of it. Then it drives me up the wall. :D

IMHO it ALWAYS causes traffic to slow more, because some kind-hearted fool always stops to let the bastard merge. This causes a chain reaction down the line, and since trucks and semis take longer to get moving again, it just gets worse on down the line.

Few things please me more than seeing a guy drive by in the empty lane... and then seeing him again a half-hour later still waiting at the barrels because nobody will let him cut line.

Guess you can guess which side of the argument I was on, now.

Due to construction near where I work, I put up with this two days a week. (No traffic crush for my weekend night shifts) I'm tempted to stradle the line between lanes just enough to block the (deleted for security reasons) who try & zip ahead. :mad:

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Originally posted by Niner
This person is...Machiavellian.

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Dude, you're going to give Machiavelli a bad name that way!

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Originally posted by Sea Tyger
That guy is usually me. Why waste a good lane when it's available? It's not like driving on the shoulder to get past the slow/stopped traffic (to any Italians on the board, that tactic is actually illegal in the United States ;) ).

Machiavellian is a good term...although I generally use "efficient." :p

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Dude, I hope you mean forigners and not USA born Italians:D

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Originally posted by First of Two
Okay, given an ongoing disagreement in another forum, I am posting this poll as a sort of informal survey. Assume the following:

A driver on a major highway is coming up on a construction site. Several miles before the construction begins, there are signs saying "left lane closed ahead" "use right lane," etc.

Traffic is backed up bumper-to-bumper in the right lane.

However, this driver continues to drive in the left lane, passing up the cars stopped in the right lane. He figures, "I haven't reached the merge point yet, why waste a perfectly good lane?"

This person is... what? (See poll responses)

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Probably from NY

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Originally posted by Karg
Dude, I hope you mean forigners and not USA born Italians:D

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Well, USA born Italians are technically Americans. ;) I'm talking about Italians in Italy. Driving there is a different experience all together..you have to expect people to pull crazy stunts out there, or else you'll be hitting cars left and right.

Actually, 9 times out of 10, the guy in the left lane has been trying for the past 10 miles to get into the right lane, but most of the bone-headed cretins on the highways in North America (on both sides of the 49^th) steadfastly refuse to let anyone merge under these (or any) circumstances.

Remember, the leading cause of accidents is the loose nut on the steering wheel. :(

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Originally posted by Sea Tyger
Well, USA born Italians are technically Americans. ;) I'm talking about Italians in Italy. Driving there is a different experience all together..you have to expect people to pull crazy stunts out there, or else you'll be hitting cars left and right.

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Try the middle east...it's worse than a bad Friday in Rome.

I Great Britain (where we drive on the other side of the road) this tactic isn't optional. It's required.

You frequently find three (occasionally four but we don't have many four lane motorways/highways in this country) lanes of traffic getting to the merge point and then it's every car. bike, truck, bus etc for themselves. All traffic laws are disregarded as is any thoughts of politeness.

Although our roadwork planners have mastered the ancient art of contraflows. Mind you in Britain would you find a Highways Agency. A secret shadowy society who go out in the middle of the night and litter our roads with traffic cones.

But I agree it is annoying. Whats worse (and I'll translate this to US road layout) is when you have two lanes approaching a junction. The right lane is for straight on and left turns and the left lane is for straight on, you approach in the left lane intending to go straight on and the car infront of you is not indicating left so you assume the same. The lights change and then the car in front starts indicating!!! Annoying.

In Ireland the closed lane would probably be busier than the one that remains open, as every w****r in a piece of smart German metal and every white Toyota van attempts to get in at the top of the queue... driving here makes me nostalgic for the M25 motorway in the UK, which I thought was impossible :rolleyes:.

I would hate to do it with a Hummer behind you...ROAD RAGE THUMP....it is rude and ill-mannered. One reason I am going to stay off the highway when I get my liscence ;) Unless someone buys me a hummer. :P

I think the fourth option in the poll sums up my feelings nicely. :)

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Originally posted by Cdr Scot II
In Ireland the closed lane would probably be busier than the one that remains open, as every w****r in a piece of smart German metal and every white Toyota van attempts to get in at the top of the queue... driving here makes me nostalgic for the M25 motorway in the UK, which I thought was impossible :rolleyes:.

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It is impossible... surely. I hit the M3/M25 junction on my daily commute, and it is the sole cause of me taking up smoking again...

Just talking about it, I can feel the blood pounding in my brain... time to lie down in a darkened room!

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Originally posted by Dan Gurden
It is impossible... surely. I hit the M3/M25 junction on my daily commute, and it is the sole cause of me taking up smoking again...

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Hey Doug, I live in Birmingham and have the architectual wonder that is of M5/M6 Gravelly Hill interchange (Spaghetti Junction to the uninitiated) to navigate. Twice. Daily!!

It rivals the M25 most days although the M25/M4 Heathrow interchange torture (again twice daily) was of the main reason I moved away from London.

God created Heaven and Earth in 7 days. And just to keep his oppo happy He let old Satan loose on Birmingham.

Still it could be worse - I still have nightmares about the first time I drove around Le Arc de Triomphe in Paris!!

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Originally posted by qerlin
Try the middle east...it's worse than a bad Friday in Rome.

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Yeah, I know...I almost got killed in Alexandria, Egypt. Even the horse-drawn carriage drivers are nuts there...

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Originally posted by JonA
Still it could be worse - I still have nightmares about the first time I drove around Le Arc de Triomphe in Paris!!

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Hey, what are you complaining about ? Paris offers you a perfect, lifesize, testing facility of your driving skills! :D
If you manage to leave this area without accident, then you know you're a top driver (unless you did that in August or around 3 AM... :p)

I have to commend you BTW : driving around the Place de l'Etoile when you're used to clockwise roundabouts must make things really, really tougher.

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Originally posted by Sea Tyger
Yeah, I know...I almost got killed in Alexandria, Egypt. Even the horse-drawn carriage drivers are nuts there...

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I think I know that guy! :p Similar encounter in Saudi!

Here's a good one: pull in for gas at a station in Kuwait...where the f****r is hosing off the concrete pad with...gasoline! And smoking!

Matt...buying a hummer for driving is illegal... ;) Those things are worthless, dude; too expensive, too bloody big, and too fuel intensive, and according to the enviro-activitists -- they're evil (yet, conveniently, what do you see them driving [if not an old pollution monster like the VW bus]?) But if you've got the dough...

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

Actually, I think it really depends on the drivers' habits in the area. I mean, if everyone is merging miles before the actual funnel, I'd say this driver is an asshole because he shows absolutely no respect for his fellow drivers. Now if everyone is driving on both lanes until they actually reach the funnel, well, fine, if he happened to chose the fastest lane he even actually is a brillant watever strategist ;).

The funny thing is: the end result in terms of traffic is exactly the same. Whether the drivers all merge miles ahead (in effect materializing the funnel before it actually becomes reality) or just before the funnel, the flow depends on the number of available lanes in the funnel, not really on the length of the funnel. Simple fluid mechanics.

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Originally posted by JonA
Still it could be worse - I still have nightmares about the first time I drove around Le Arc de Triomphe in Paris!!

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I too thought driving in Paris without affecting your car's SIF was a true test of ones driving skills ... errr make that a true test of one's reflexes.

Then I saw Roma. And I thought: "Ouch!".

Then again, I saw Napoli. And I thought: "Oh my eff-ing God!". In Napoli, it's like ... "Traffic lights? What traffic lights? Oh, that, I thought it was some leftover from Chrismas decorations ... oh well, va bene". Then ... "One Way? Of course it is one way, and it's also another!" Or: "Pedestrians? Who needs pedestrians anyway?" ... Later on the subject of traffic lights: "In Napoli there are two kinds of traffic lights: those that you have to respect, and those that you don't need to. Oh no, it's not written anywhere, but we can tell". And of course they do not seem to grasp fancy concepts like safety belts, no cell phones while driving, or helmets for scooters. Even when the whole family is on the same scooter. Errr, did I already say that most streets or roads are really narrow, nothing like what can be found in most american cities.

Well, anyhow ... as some obscure scientist used to say, everything is relative I guess ;).

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Originally posted by Calcoran
I...And of course they do not seem to grasp fancy concepts like safety belts, no cell phones while driving, or helmets for scooters. Even when the whole family is on the same scooter.

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Their prerogative, C; far as I'm concerned, if you don't want to wear a seat belt, helmet or passed jacket on a cycle, etc. more power to ya. It's their life and right to be stupid, after all; legislating that sort of thing is just an infringement on people (save for kids -- you should have to buckle up the kids.)

Me: I'll keep wearing my helmet; kept me alive in that last motorcycle accident.

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Originally posted by Calcoran
The funny thing is: the end result in terms of traffic is exactly the same. Whether the drivers all merge miles ahead (in effect materializing the funnel before it actually becomes reality) or just before the funnel, the flow depends on the number of available lanes in the funnel, not really on the length of the funnel. Simple fluid mechanics.

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Maybe where you are from, but from my experience that is just not true.
If people drive on the left lane until they are forced to switch lanes they will either try to switch when their is no opening or someone will slow down considerably to allow them to merge with ongoing traffic. The end result is the same: A sort of chain reaction that slows down traffic considerably.
If, OTOH, some people would even consider switching lanes when they see that they will have to do it 2 or 3 miles ahead anyway, they could do so when an opportunity presents itself, which wouldn't lead to the same traffic jams, or at least make them less likely.

Haven't had the joy of dealing with Paris or Napoli driving. Worst I've had to deal with so far is the "Octopus" out in Qerlin's neck of the desert. That's the I-25/I-40 interchange. :eek: The only way it could be any worse is if there wasn't an overpass & the lanes just crossed each other at ground level with no stoplights.

Actually, cyberlud -- they just finished the 'Big-I' work; it's a lot better than it had been, save for trying to get onto northbound I25 from eastbound I-40. The rest of it works a lot better than t used to.

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Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
Actually, 9 times out of 10, the guy in the left lane has been trying for the past 10 miles to get into the right lane, but most of the bone-headed cretins on the highways in North America (on both sides of the 49^th) steadfastly refuse to let anyone merge under these (or any) circumstances.

Remember, the leading cause of accidents is the loose nut on the steering wheel. :(

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Amen, brother!

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Originally posted by Lancer
Maybe where you are from, but from my experience that is just not true.
If people drive on the left lane until they are forced to switch lanes they will either try to switch when their is no opening or someone will slow down considerably to allow them to merge with ongoing traffic. The end result is the same: A sort of chain reaction that slows down traffic considerably.
If, OTOH, some people would even consider switching lanes when they see that they will have to do it 2 or 3 miles ahead anyway, they could do so when an opportunity presents itself, which wouldn't lead to the same traffic jams, or at least make them less likely.

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:D
And I was wondering whether I should say "if everyone is merging miles ahead, like, say, in Germany ...".

If indeed everyone is stupidly fighting to get on the right lane, of course a slowdown will occur. If the drivers in the right lane stubbornly refuse to let drivers in the left lane merge because they feel merging before the others give them the right to do so, what you describe will indeed happen. Same if the drivers on the left line stubbornly go on driving on the left lane until the very last moment, feeling so much smarter than "early mergers". This is what happens when, say, a driver from Paris comes over to Brittany or Germany ;).

Now if the merging goes well one on one (that is, one left, then one right and so on) ... as is I believe supposed to be taught in driving schools ... well, then the actual mergin can happen miles ahead, of at the last moment, it'll make no difference. As Owen said, it's the stubbornness of drivers (be them early mergers or late mergers) that make it harder for everyone.

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Originally posted by Calcoran
:D
And I was wondering whether I should say "if everyone is merging miles ahead, like, say, in Germany ...".

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:rolleyes:
Yeah, welcome to Germany, home of sane and carefull drivers on every highway - not. :rolleyes::mad::eek::(:p:D

And if you think that's a lot of smilies... just thinking about driving during rush-hour makes me go through all kinds of different emotions.;)

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Originally posted by Sea Tyger
Well, USA born Italians are technically Americans. ;) I'm talking about Italians in Italy. Driving there is a different experience all together..you have to expect people to pull crazy stunts out there, or else you'll be hitting cars left and right.

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I did not know that:)

I'm a New York Italian, we're crazy as it is!

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Originally posted by Lancer
:rolleyes:
Yeah, welcome to Germany, home of sane and carefull drivers on every highway - not. :rolleyes::mad::eek::(:p:D

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Oh, I've lived 2 years in Germany, and I'd say Germans are decent enough drivers. I'd even say they're among the most decent drivers in Europe. Way more so than French or (God forbid) Italians ;). And they tend to respect and apply rules and instructions to the letter (it has nothing to do with driving, but I still remember this guy in Berlin, running like crazy to catch the subway ... at the very last moment the door bell began to ring ... I mean, the guy had like 2 or 3 meters to walk and he was in, but no, he stopped, cursed a bit for missing the subway, watched the doors close and the subway depart ... I mean, I know it's written "Do not attempt to enter after the bell starts ringing, but still!).

Back to driving, German drivers are also very decent when it comes to respecting bicycles. Which is really nice, specially considering the fact that I tend to use a bicycle most of the time.

Sorry, but I look at it this way: I can either be the guy who gets cut off -- after waiting patiently -- or I can be the guy who does the cutting off. After years of "doing the right thing" and merging way-y-y-y-y-y back when the signs first appeared, I finally got sick of being the patsy. Now, I'm the guy you all seem to hate. ;)

I agree that Paris is bad, Rome wasn't too bad but I only drove there once and it was 3am on a Sunday morning. Not done Napoli. London you don't manage to gain enough speed to actually have an accident worthy of an insurance claim. New York just scared me (and I was in the back of a yellow cab at the time). But my vote for the most insane, suicidal drivers in the world.

Hong Kong.

I'd tell you all about it but i've blanked it from my memory such was the horror. If I try and recall the details then I fear I may revert to the foetal position. Which oddly enough was the position I presumed in the back of a Hong Kong taxi on the run from the airport to the hotel!

The drivers in Athens use Italy as a training school to warm up. A car pulls out to pass on a curve on a two lane road, and another car pulls out to pass him! Three cars wide on a blind curve.:eek:

In North Carolina they like to play a game called "Block the Idiot". In other words, don't let the lane racer merge at the end of the lane.

I tend to think if everyone is courteous, traffic will move smoothly, if a little slower. It's just a theory. I've never seen it in practice.:rolleyes: