My 4th Age game (revisited)
Okay so I have decided my villain isn't good enough to the be the "New Shadow". The more I read about Giant Spiders the less I think they have what it takes to be anything more than a Lieutenant.
So while I try and create a new enemy, I am left making sure all my other ducks are in a row...
1] a new Shadow has arisen in Mordor, and its agents in the Mirkwood, Misty Mountains and Angmar are hard at work troubling the lands of Men, Elves and Dwarves.
2] The primary new race being shown are the Quenuhuine, or the Shadow Elves. Elves who have had the light of Valinor taken out of them (way back when) and now serve this new Shadow as they are corrupted to their core.
3] The Silmaril tossed into the sea has resurfaced in the Hobbit town of Downbywater, not to be confused with the area of Bywater. Downbywater is nearer to the White Towers.
4] King Daerion of Gondor has assembled a company of 8 to travel to Rivendell and seek guidence on the movements of Orcs and Urks through the Gap of Rohan, Mordor and Angmar.
Now I had a whole thing worked out of Shelob (come Morlob) trying to use the Silmaril to turn out the sun, but have decided that doesn't work at all.
It is called Lord of the Rings, so now I think my new Shadow should be trying to create a new Ring of Power, using the magic of the Silmaril to enchant it.
The characters are still the same, a Hobbit minstrel, a Captain of Arnor, a Shieldmaiden of Rohan, a ranger of the North and a Knight of Dol-Amroth. They are accompanied by a magician, a dwarf and the last-born of the Sindar elves.
I just to rework the story to a certain level.
Ideas, opinions and help is greatly appreciated.
That's the correct way to prounce it, imho
I spent over two decades blissfully unconcerned with correct pronounciation, until I saw the FotR and my interest was irretrievably piqued.
One of the first things I did was to reread the Appendix in the RotK that dealt with pronounciation, this time carefully. ;-)
All of a sudden, all of the names sounded better!! Especially 'Finrod'. I thought that this was such an unfortunate name, until I realized that it's actually pronounced:
FEEN-road
Now he wouldn't get beat up on the playground! Woohoo!
The rules for vowels are really fairly straightforward, and the examples below cover the majority:
Letter Approximate British English equivalent
------ --------------------------------------
Vowels:
/a/ father
/e/ were
/i/ machine
/o/ for
/u/ brute
/y/ as in French 'lune'
(a tighter, more pursed sound than 'moon')
Diphthongs (i.e. vowel combos):
/ai/ rye
/ae/ also like rye
/ei/ grey, stay
/oe/ boy
/ui/ ruin
/au/ loud, how
Those funny accents above vowel sounds really only indicate that you're supposed to pronouce the affected vowel for a longer period of time, like:
Eärendil = eh ' AAAAR ' en ' deel
This link may also help, it has audio examples. Wouldn't take it as gospel, but I think he's more or less correct, in general:
http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/T...pronguide.html
Forgot one picky little detail ...
The emphisis for the name Wírilomë would fall on the second to the last consonant:
weer i LOME eh
For a more thourough look at this, check:
http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/sindari...ics.htm#stress
Re: That's the correct way to prounce it, imho
Quote:
Originally posted by Manveru
All of a sudden, all of the names sounded better!! Especially 'Finrod'. I thought that this was such an unfortunate name, until I realized that it's actually pronounced:
FEEN-road
Now he wouldn't get beat up on the playground! Woohoo!
That does sound better! Especially since I always thought he was such a neat guy. Now how do you pronounce his second name, Felagund? Thanks. :)
I had a similar idea.......
AlsanC:
I had a similar idea for a 4th age chronicle. Basically one of the silmaris was uncovered and all hell broke loose.
Currently I am thinking of how much of an impact should that have upon Middle Earth. I had this crazy idea of Elves returning from Valinor, of the curse of Feanor, and Melkor making another appearance.
Basically some kind of powerful but corrupt magician/loremaster learns of the silmaris (or of rumours) and begins his secret campaign to raise an army reclaim the silmaris, and so on....
Re: I'd be very surprised ..
Quote:
Originally posted by Manveru
.. if the Valar, or even Eru, stood by and watched anyone free Melkor from the Void. Melkor would be so completely overwhelming, particularily in a post 3rd Age world, that only the intervention of the Valar or Eru could stop him, and probably only at great cost to Middle Earth (lands broken, etc.)
Intersting point. See below.
Quote:
One of the (discarded, I believe) notions that Tolkien had was that Melkor would return at the end of the world and Turin would return as well to slay him.
Again another neat idea, he had so many eh? :) I should get around to reading letters at some point.
Quote:
I can certainly see a plot to release Melkor, but I can't really see it succeeding.
Bingo! Now we are one the same page. :) If Melkor were to be freed, they the world would end in a heart beat. I mean come on, this is Melkor.
No I certainly don't want them to succeed, just the threat of it. Maybe an aspect of Morgoth's power could come through, you know a shade or splinter of him, but certainly not to whole beast. That would be insane.
Think more along the lines of Cuthulu, if he ever shows up the game is over, but his followers are constantly tapping into tiny amounts of his power.
Thanks for the info on Turin BTW
Take 5 amigo, but keep on!
Those are some great ideas! Keep working with 'em. The Blue Wizards are a shoo-in for one or two new villians. Maybe only one of them 'Fell' from grace, and the other is trying to stop the 'Bad' one. Or maybe he just seems like it. ;-) (sorry, sorry ..)
I think for the time period you are setting the story in, Orcs are just fine. There hasn't been enough time to probably do more than repair all the hurts from the war, if that, I'm sure the Wilds are still plenty wild, and the Orcs would certainly retreat back to the Mountains, although they may be hiding a lot.
But your Age of Man theme is dead on, so I say keep that in there. Aragorn was said to have conquered or made peace with nearly all of the Easterlings and Southrons around and about. But surely some displaced former tyrants/nobility might not consider such things to be a good turn ... *cue dramatic music*
You're all set with what you've got, just flesh out the details. :-)
Except for the Shadow Elves! ;-)
Villainous dark elves set on conquering Middle Earth or something would seem out of place in the 4th Age, or any Age of ME to me. I can perhaps see some xenophobic Avari, but Tolkien mentioned that he thought they would largely turn out to be teachers of Men in the East. What Men would be in turn to the Elves is probably wide open.
It was actually supposed that Illuvatar's original intention was for the Elves to be the teachers of Men. But Melkor's rebellion caused the Valar to summon the Elves to Aman. The fallout from this act (i.e. most of the events in the Silmarillion) gave the Valar more incentive to become less overtly involved in the affairs of Middle Earth and the children of Illuvatar even before the First Age.
Re: Take 5 amigo, but keep on!
Quote:
Originally posted by Manveru
Those are some great ideas! Keep working with 'em. The Blue Wizards are a shoo-in for one or two new villians. Maybe only one of them 'Fell' from grace, and the other is trying to stop the 'Bad' one. Or maybe he just seems like it. ;-) (sorry, sorry ..)
LOL! Now you are being mean ;)
Seriously though, I think one of the Blue Wizards is fine as the bad guy. If you were running this story would you have him be Herumor, or Dolomir be herumor? Or, would you have him be both, having killed Dolomir and taken his form?
Quote:
I think for the time period you are setting the story in, Orcs are just fine. There hasn't been enough time to probably do more than repair all the hurts from the war, if that, I'm sure the Wilds are still plenty wild, and the Orcs would certainly retreat back to the Mountains, although they may be hiding a lot.
Agreed. Would they use them? I guess as creations of Morgoth it would be stupid of them not to. What other creations did he have?
Also, what of my shadow elves? The dwarves? The hobbits? What would you do in my place?
Quote:
But your Age of Man theme is dead on, so I say keep that in there. Aragorn was said to have conquered or made peace with nearly all of the Easterlings and Southrons around and about. But surely some displaced former tyrants/nobility might not consider such things to be a good turn ... *cue dramatic music*
And let's face it, peace does not mean friendship. Just because Elessar brought them to peace, doesn't mean they are jumping up and down about it a couple hundred years later. Grudges grow with time in these cases, as our own world shows.
Quote:
You're all set with what you've got, just flesh out the details. :-)
There in lies the issue.
I have them arriving at Rivendell next session, I need to know if I sack it first or not.
Sacking it provides the harsh reality that things are up and serious. But on the down side it might be too much too soon.
Not sacking it allows me to have a place where they can gather allies and learn of things, but later I can sack it at will. The downside being they have stong allies as a result and may not feel "on their own" against the cultists.
I mean I love the idea of armies waiting just to the East and South, ready to pour into Eriador under the flag of Herumor. That is a keeper.
Plus with Orcs in the North and regathering in Mordor, perhaps men will need their Dwarven allies.
Just seems to me that if I involve the Dwarves I am diminishing the importance of Age of Man.
Thoughts? Guidence? Suggestions? Derision? Mockery? Small velvet capes?
Re: Except for the Shadow Elves! ;-)
Quote:
Originally posted by Manveru
Villainous dark elves set on conquering Middle Earth or something would seem out of place in the 4th Age, or any Age of ME to me. I can perhaps see some xenophobic Avari, but Tolkien mentioned that he thought they would largely turn out to be teachers of Men in the East. What Men would be in turn to the Elves is probably wide open.
Now what if these elves, the Avari, knowing they could never go to Valinor, bread into the blood of the easterners? That could work right?
Creating almost a new offshoot race of men, like the men Dol Amroth being decended from Dunedain, bu possibly having the blood of Elves in their history.
Re: Re: Take 5 amigo, but keep on!
Quote:
Originally posted by AslanC
I have them arriving at Rivendell next session, I need to know if I sack it first or not.
Sacking it provides the harsh reality that things are up and serious. But on the down side it might be too much too soon.
Not sacking it allows me to have a place where they can gather allies and learn of things, but later I can sack it at will. The downside being they have stong allies as a result and may not feel "on their own" against the cultists.
Dude, sacking a place like Rivendell can be one of the most tragic, motivating, and awesome things you can do in a Tolkien chronicle, that's a solid idea. I definitely think it should happen in your game, though possibly not yet. You want to make sure you do it at just the right time, when it will do it's best of shocking them.
In other words, you may want them to spend some time there, or be on the way there for something like a wedding (just thinking of possible 'emotionally charged' scenes, heh), and then find it in smoking ruin.
So, I think it's definitely an idea of great merit, but you should be careful to do it at just the right time, when it will really catch them off-guard. Good luck! :cool:
Re: Re: Take 5 amigo, but keep on!
Quote:
Originally posted by AslanC
LOL! Now you are being mean ;)
Seriously though, I think one of the Blue Wizards is fine as the bad guy. If you were running this story would you have him be Herumor, or Dolomir be herumor? Or, would you have him be both, having killed Dolomir and taken his form?
Hmmm ... can't say without having an idea for the plot and some idea as to the characters. To be honest, I'd be entirely tempted not to figure this out for myself!
I'd keep at least the perception of the 'Good' Blue Wizard vs. the 'Bad' Blue Wizard. Whether this perception is real or not *shrug* it works either way, so if you can't decide which one to do, it doesn't really matter which one you decide to do, because they both must be appealing. I'd go this way because it's fairly rich with plot twist material, and 'guiding hand' tools (i.e. you could 'recruit' the PCs into the service of one of the 'Good' BW). If you decided to have the 'Good' BW actually BE good, then that gives you a Gandalf character to use, and the players might respond to that very well.
And you have the possibility of a deeper plot thread. Since, technically, only Gandalf succeeded in his task, what does that mean now for the Blue Wizards? Obviously, the one who is evil is not going back to Valinor soon, but the one that is good might HAVE to defeat his evil peer (and former friend!) in order to regain the favour of the Valar, so there'd be a strong personal motivation on the part of the 'Good' BW.
I'd probably lean toward making Pallando the 'Good' one, since Alatar seemed as eager and proud as Curumo, and I can easily see him falling to some of the same temptation. Both were friends of the other in Valinor, and both were Maiar of Orome, the hunter. And Alatar could be deemed the stronger and more gifted, this would be easy to support, and if he were to abondon his mission and take up the reigns of power, he could probably outmatch Pallando in a mano-a-mano. This would cause Pallando to seek allies.
I think the first place he might go would be to Radagast, and thence perhaps to Celeborn in Rivendell (if he's still there in your story, with the sons of Elrond). Unless the PCs have some special advantage or association, or Pallando doesn't want the 'Wise' to get involved or know for some reason, I don't know why Pallando wouldn't seek help from the few remaining persons of power he might know about. Perhaps he doesn't even know who the 'Wise' of NW middle earth are yet, and so that's where the PCs come in.
The danger here with the 'Good' vs. 'Bad' Wizards is that you'd have to be wary of having the Istari overshadow the party.
And if you're REALLY feeling nasty, you could say that the 'Good' BW is only feigning, and is actually in league with the 'Bad' BW but is essentially a Trojan horse, meant to infiltrate the camp of the 'Wise' and betray them. That would certainly lead into the sack of Rivendell idea you thought of, but the other idea can also do that.
In any case, Celeborn and Radagast are the two biggest threats to any evil BW ploy. I don't think even a BW could fool either of them easily, and they would both have reason to be suspicious, knowing what they know about the Istari and their purpose (Radagast firsthand, Celeborn through the White Council). Any nefarious plan by the evil BW(s) would have to involve distracting/neutrilizing Celeborn and Radagast, and this would NOT be easy. In fact, if Radagast were to encounter firsthand any 'Fell Beasts' corrupted by a BW, he'd probably be able to discern a great deal about it, seeing as how beasts and plants (the provinces of Yavanna, second mightiest of the Valier Queens) are his primary sphere.
And if I was an evil Istari, I wouldn't go within leagues of Celeborn, and fooling him face to face would be a tremendous feat. Celeborn doesn't get a lot of mention in the texts, but we're talking about a kinsman of Thingol, who has lived since well before the First Age, and one who has had close association with all the mighty and Wise of Middle Earth, his Queen Galadriel far from the least amoung them, and no doubt her own power increased his (much like Melian's power increased Thingol's).
Quote:
Agreed. Would they use them? I guess as creations of Morgoth it would be stupid of them not to. What other creations did he have?
Trolls, Fell Spirits bound into various forms (like Wargs, Wights, etc.). The Necromancy of the Enemy (Morgoth AND Sauron) involved coercing the Unbodied (houseless spirits of Elves, who either did not want to journey to Aman, or could not, or were prevented by the Enemy from doing so, and were corrupted by the Necromancy of the Enemy) and binding them into fell forms. Dragons (almost non-existant in the 4th Age I imagine, but probably not gone entirely).
Quote:
Also, what of my shadow elves? The dwarves? The hobbits? What would you do in my place?
Hobbits and Dwarves are just fine, though perhaps a bit more reclusive as time goes on. I believe that your campaign is set in the very early 4th Age, though. After the War of the Ring, both Hobbits and Dwarves would be busy for a while. I wouldn't reduce their presence greatly, there's no reason to unless you want to. The Dwarves still have to clean out Moria, and they do. They're good for a hundreds of years at least, until the 7th and last incarnation of Durin dies and the Dwarves diminish.
I can't see any shadow elves being in ME. HOWEVER, it is certainly possible that the BWs (one or both) practice Necromancy and, following in the footsteps of Sauron, bind the Unbodied into fell forms. Since both BWs are Maiar of Orome, I suspect that they'd bind them most easily into beastly forms, a la Wargs. And it's kinda poetic: the former hunter(s) of Fell Things now having them serve as minions!
OR, it is also possible for the Unbodied to posses the bodies of others, and supress or even force the spirits of the hosts out entirely. What if one or both of the BW's made it easier for the Unbodied to do this?
Now, Elves are body, mind, and soul part and parcel and bound to Arda til the end of time. It'd be VERY, VERY hard to push the spirit of an Elf out of their body while they are yet alive.
Not so with Men. Men's souls are MADE to leave Middle Earth, and so are more weakly attached to it. Imagine fell servents of the BW(s) that consist of Fell, corrupted, Unbodied Elven spirits possessing the bodies of Men (much like the Wights were Unbodied spirits inhabiting the dead bodies of Dunedain Kings, and the Wargs were Unbodied spirits inhabiting the forms of Wolves). These could be your 'Shadow Elves', essentially Fell, Undead servants of the BW(s). You could either rule that they look just like the Men they posses, or that they corrupt their form, taking on an obviously evil and menacing appearance, maybe a half-wight/wraith, not wholly trapped in the Spirit World (as the Ringwraiths were), but in both worlds at once because they actually possess living bodies (with some help from the BW(s)). In any case, these 'Shadow' servents would almost certainly radiate Fellness and Fear.
Quote:
And let's face it, peace does not mean friendship. Just because Elessar brought them to peace, doesn't mean they are jumping up and down about it a couple hundred years later. Grudges grow with time in these cases, as our own world shows.
I'm with ya.
Quote:
There in lies the issue.
I have them arriving at Rivendell next session, I need to know if I sack it first or not.
Sacking it provides the harsh reality that things are up and serious. But on the down side it might be too much too soon.
Not sacking it allows me to have a place where they can gather allies and learn of things, but later I can sack it at will. The downside being they have stong allies as a result and may not feel "on their own" against the cultists.
I mean I love the idea of armies waiting just to the East and South, ready to pour into Eriador under the flag of Herumor. That is a keeper.
Don't sack Rivendell yet!! I'm completely with Ben Hur/KoR on this. That's a very dramatic idea, save it. Make it one of the most dramatic events in the story, and have it happen just when the PCs need Rivendell the most. ;-) It should be a second or third act event. Probably the finale of the Second Act (I'm using the 3 act model for this, so your 'second' act may in fact be your 4th or 5th or whatever), the lowest point of the story, when all looks grim, and just before the PCs manage to turn things around. Let the PCs take Rivendell for granted, have the depend on it and THEN sack it! *heavy metal hand gestures*
Quote:
Plus with Orcs in the North and regathering in Mordor, perhaps men will need their Dwarven allies.
Just seems to me that if I involve the Dwarves I am diminishing the importance of Age of Man.
The 4th Age is the BEGINNING of the Age of Men. The remnents of the 'Old' world (Dwarves, Elves, Hobbits, Orcs, Dragons, Magic, et. al.) are in decline and will fade, but not for centuries.
Quote:
Thoughts? Guidence? Suggestions? Derision? Mockery? Small velvet capes? [/B]
*digs in pockets* Nope .. no capes, sorry .. ;-)
