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I'm interested in buying some of the FASA supplements because they provide rare information on the galaxy as it was in the 23rd century. However I've heard that most of them are inconsistent with star trek canon as it is now and that they contradict most of the newer sources.
Exactly what inconsistencies do they contain and are there any left that are still consistent with canon?
Well the dates don't match up for a start. But the adventure modules are mostly excellent, and much of the 23rd century information can be squeezed into canon continuity wihtout too much trouble. Anything that doesn't fit can simply be ignored, IMHO.
In my personal way of determining the canonicity value of a certain product, if one piece of information is anti-canon (contradictory), then the entire book it came from is anti-canon. The book just doesn't seem reliable to me if it has a big glaring inconsistency.
Well each to their own, but by that logic you'd have to ignore half of the on screen Trek as well :)
Either way, the adventure modules still stand pretty well. Though you'd clearly have to alter dates for them. But then I've never bought a module that didn't require some tweaking to fit my own campaign settings. Be it Star Trek or D&D.
I'm generally the reverse to extrocomp, in that I'll take things as canon, leaving out anything that is obviously not canon. It does affect things as badly for me as I'm planning to run a pre-TOS campaign, so have the 'a lot of changes in 100 years' line anyway. I'd only concern myself with it for a major issue - and there are generally good nuggets to get out of anything. (For example, the FASA Federation Sourcebook is hopelessly out of canon, but there is still a ton of useful material in it). If you like John Ford's Klingons, then of course the FASA Klingon sourcebook is a must.
Richard
Very true. And it's not impossible to reconcile Ford's Klingon's with 'modern' Klingons if you accept the idea that Klingon culture changed sometime between TOS and the movies, as the Empire began the 'return' to traditional Klingon values. Certainly, Enterprise doesn't contradict that Klingon culture is on the 'slide' towards TOS Klingon values.Quote:
Originally posted by Methuslah
If you like John Ford's Klingons, then of course the FASA Klingon sourcebook is a must.
Of course, all IMHO. :)
Now personally I prefer Ford's take on Klingon culture, but c'est la vie. By the same token, I don't object to the direction the series took them, either.
Well I am of the camp that mines what it wants from other non canon sources and go from there for example my modifiied fasa time line which uses events in the FASA line but retwinks them for canon use. for example:
2069, July – Despite constant Vulcan resistance and interference and the apparent failure of the Friendship One mission the newly reestablished New United Nations manages to design and launch the Franklin Series of Warp-driven message probes into deep space in the next thirty years some 380 are launched but only three will ever produce any results. [0/6407]
2070 – The ES Icarus returns from its three year mission to report that formal relations have been established with the very Human like Centauri.
2070 – The New Untied Nations reaffirms the world’s commitment to the United Space Initiative which had been signed over seventy years before. What precious resources Earth has remaining are given over to this effort to return man to the stars.
2070 June – 2072 October – Ten fusion-driven ships with warp backup are completed and launched. With souls dissatisfied with Earth, even a reconstructed one, these ship venture out to establish some of humanities first deep space colonies [0/7006-0/7210]
2071 – 2081 – “The Last Campaigns” are fought which finish off the small remaining pockets of chaos which have persisted since the end of the Third World War in several areas of Asia, North America, and Europe. Many Vulcan commentators are shocked with the near barbarity seen in some of these areas and campaigns noting that even the simple premise of justice has been subverted to anarchies purpose. The Earth Commentaries written about them by Turak are considered both a military and philosophical classic.
2073 July – 2077, June – A joint Human and Alpha Centauri effort leads to the development of the Bonaventure class deep space explorer which is also the first human vessel which bears any armament, a single monochromatic high intensity laser. This is all done of course under intense Vulcan observation.
2075 – The Xenobiological Probability Study, underwritten by the newly founded University of Luna located in San Francisco on Earth is released to the public its conclusion that humanoid life forms are the dominant biological form and that contact with any non-humanoid life form is highly unlikely. The University of Luna is one of three institutions which will one day combine to form Starfleet Academy in 2162.
2076, May – The University of Luna receives the first installment of the famed Vulcan Database which is a collection of nearly 2000 years worth of Vulcan space exploration though immense in size its limited and shallow scope and depth surprises many. Many on earth are now openly and publicly doubting the Vulcan’s commitment to allowing unhindered Earth exploration.
2077 – The ES Bonaventure, the first of a new class begins its two year mission to the Tau Ceti star system 12 light years away from Earth.
Nice timeline Eric. Can't see that it contradicts anything, baring minor niggles (or nit picking !)
With regards to the Klingons, you can take what you want with them really. But even canonically, The klingons certainly do seem to have had a 'moral' slip by the time of TOS - Howver this is not inconsistent with the way societies operate. Society expands, grows and becomes decedant, escewing their values in pursuit of their desires. then something happens, often because of that 'slip' and everyone has a reactionary return to old values, or finds new one's.
In the case of the Romans, the sack of rome and the fall of their star caused in turn a change towards the christian faith. (Very abridged version there LOL) and in the case of the Klingons the accident at praxis, the damage to their atmosphere and no doubt years of suffering would have taken their toll on the hardiest Klingon. In that era I still doubt they would have accepted much, if any, help from the Federation, so the klingons probably changed as a people in general, resurecting the old beliefs, as many people on earth look to god (or gods) in times of hardship.
In TNG even klingons didn't think very highly of 23rd century Klingons!
Nice piece of work, and demonstrates that a lot of the FASA material can be worked into canon :)Quote:
Originally posted by Eric R.
2070 – The ES Icarus returns from its three year mission to report that formal relations have been established with the very Human like Centauri.
However, I must apologise in advance for one very small nitpick. Enterprise has actually referred to Alpha Centauri as an Earth colony. Of course, it's up to you whether you consider the events of Enterprise canon or not, and I mention it only for reference purpose :)
Good point, the timeline had been written before that particular piece of info was given out on Enterprise. I well say I am begining to lean toward both a native centaurie race and Earth colony exisiting in the same system so as to "keep" canon.
There could simply be an earth colony ON Centauri. Much like the Vulcan enclusure on Earth (which could be described as a colony) I beleive that Zephram Cochrane lived there for a time too, apparently moving there from Earth. To me it makes more sense if he moved to a habited planet, as back then I doubt that the early humans had the time to mount a huge building programme or even a space station. of course that's pure conjecture on my part (based on the LUG Trek information)
Actually I consider the episodes and movies to be canon no matter how many inconsistencies they have, and seriously there haven't been that many.
Paramount has said they're canon and everyone considers them canon but I put the books and games to a much higher standard of consistency before I consider them canon because they're not supported by Paramount.
Yes there have been several inconsistencies in the early episodes like the Federation being called United Earth and dilithium being called lithium but that's minor. As for the supposed big inconsistencies on Enterprise, I've been able to explain almost every single one I've heard of.
By the way, when has Alpha Centauri been referred to as an Earth colony? Didn't Enterprise say that Terra Nova was the first colony outside the Sol system? Why would colonists go all the way to Terra Nova if there was an uninhabited M-class planet in Alpha Centauri?
To be honest, I'm not 100% certain, but it may have been Twilight. On the other hand, I am certain there as such a reference since it made me sit up and listen, and I was pleased smeone had finally clarified the Alpha Centauri issue.
I'm particularly interested in FASA's Star Trek IV Sourcebook.
Is there anything wrong with that one?
Well, the first thing wrong with it is that it has almost nothing to so with ST IV. There's nothing about time travel, whales, the probe or even Klingon Birds of Prey in there. ;)
The book falls into three main sections. First there's a collection of essays on the state of the Federation, Starfleet military justice, etc. These are mostly just fluff . One essay is dedicated to the Operation Armageddon simulation that FASA invented outright (it was going to be a board game but was never published).
The second section is a timeline of events from 2/00 to 2/24 (that's 2200 to 2224 in the FASA timeline or roughly five years before TOS through to ST IV). A lot of this material is FASA only and some of it has been contradicted by later sources. It is useful in that it places all the FASA adventures published up until that point at specific points in time. This is the most detailed, for this period, of the various timelines that FASA published.
The third and longest section is a collection of pieces on alien races. These are all those aliens seen in the background of the council chambers in the film (at last a connection with the book's title!). The aliens covered are the Xelatians, Arkenites, Tellarites, Zaranites, Ariolo, Andorians, Efrosians, Caitians, Arcadians, Edoans, Vulcans, Bzzit Khaht, Kasheeta, Deltans and Alpha Centaurans. Very little of this information has been contradicted by on screen sources but some has been contradicted by published LUG of Decipher material.
Personally I find the race section to be very useful and the timeline to be useful in keeping track of other FASA material. The essays don't do anything for me.
Personally, I'd suggest that if this is your opinion, and an opinion you're not prepared to change, then none of the FASA books will be of use to you.Quote:
Originally posted by extrocomp
In my personal way of determining the canonicity value of a certain product, if one piece of information is anti-canon (contradictory), then the entire book it came from is anti-canon. The book just doesn't seem reliable to me if it has a big glaring inconsistency.
I found this section to be pretty useful. It's a pretty detailed 25 year timeline - almost none of it canon, but a lot of ideas for adventures in there.Quote:
Originally posted by Identity Crisis
The second section is a timeline of events from 2/00 to 2/24 (that's 2200 to 2224 in the FASA timeline or roughly five years before TOS through to ST IV). A lot of this material is FASA only and some of it has been contradicted by later sources. It is useful in that it places all the FASA adventures published up until that point at specific points in time. This is the most detailed, for this period, of the various timelines that FASA published.
^^^^ Which is why I still love all my old FASA books. Damn, they may be full of holes, but there are same fine ideas in there.
And as much as I like both ICON and CODA, FASA had a certain charm to it, that I'm not sure either of the newer games quite managed to capture. Though they are both fine games :)