An email from Decipher

Well, I got a bug up my rear end today and tried emailing Decipher again. Monica Jones emailed me back this after noon. Here's what she had to say. Seems almost like the underlying theme is that the RPG will get phased out, but you can draw your own conlcusions. Her email is below, and my initial comments to her are below that.

Enjoy

"Dear Josh,

I really do appreciate your frustration. I know I would be equally as frustrated if I were in your shoes.

It's not that we are being dishonest or don't have respect for your players. I think if you looked at the various gaming companies objectively you would say that Decipher is one of the most accessible companies out there. With that openness, there also is some potential negativity that can arise, such as with this issue we are discussing now. We are making decisions that are in the best interest of the company and of the players; one of those decisions is that we cannot at this time share the inside details of what is being discussed until a final decision and determination has been made. It may be that Decipher no longer produces the LOTR RPG in the future, but that in no way should be perceived as an uncaring gesture. We do care about all of you in a big way, but we also care about the company's bottomline and the livelihood of its employees. We will do our best to get this resolved and make an announcement about the continuation of the Star Trek and LOTR RPGs in the very near future. It's on everyone's minds internally I can assure you.

Monica"



"Hi Monica,

I saw the Decipher product release schedule and noticed that there are no new Lord of the Rings RPG items listed. I'm not trying to be confrontational, and I realize that you are not solely in charge of decision making for the company, but maybe it's time for Decipher to come clean with the RPG community. We've been waiting for some time to be given some sort of information regarding the books that were supposed to be released in August/September and still have gotten nothing. The only statement given was for us to be patient because a product release schedule was being released in March. Now we have recieved the release schedule, in which all items have been removed as potential releases. This very much felt like a slap in the face. I"m assuming that these books not being listed on the release schedule means that your company has discontinued putting any effort into furthering the RPG. I hope I"m wrong, but either way, I really hope that your company has enough respect for your supporters to be honest with us.

So, I will ask; is the RPG being dropped by Decipher? If not, when will we *honestly* see the promised materials. If so, I would ask that you please very seriously consider sub-contracting the liscense as not to leave we devoted RPG fans hanging.

Some of us are incensed at, what we feel, has been mistreatment of the material and fans by your company. Please come clean and let us know what is going on. I understand that perhaps you are not at liberty to give us this information. If this is so, please urge Warren Holland to make a statement, or allow someone else to make a useful statement regarding the future of the product.

Thank you for your time,"

Pretty much the same crap; although the comment about dropping the RPG lines is no surprise. I expe4ct they'll get a few books pushed out the door that might be printed already, then they'll be done with it and go back to the card game stuff

I find Monica's email insightful because the underlying implication is that the RPG line is not profitable and, thus, will be cancelled. It would be *nice* if they would just out and out admit it, though I agree that they may want to try to publish a few last ready books while the line is still "active" in order to recoup losses. If the RPG line isn't profitable and Decipher wants to cut-and-run, this is hardly unreasonable. The real tragedy is that Decipher will be hoarding two prime licenses that they will not service, preventing others from doing so.

So what's the post-mortem for Decipher's RPG line? Why couldn't Decipher make a go of it, considering they had two very hot properties? I have a few nominations...

1) Maybe they shouldn't have even started with a separate studio of fulltime RPG staff, and instead should have outsourced freelancers from the start. Seems that the RPG market is too niche and shallow to make a fulltime studio fiscally viable.

2) They seem to have proposed quite a few products well in advance of when they were prepared (at least in terms of printing and/or distribution) to deliver them. Maybe also juggling ST and LOTR at the same time was too much. It might have been better to propose fewer book projects up front, putting ST on the backburner while the LOTR films were hot in the theaters, then picking up on ST in between the films.

3) The day I bought the LOTR core rulebook was my first hint that Decipher might not turn a profit on their RPGS -- sturdy hardcover, heavy high-gloss paper, ink-heavy cover maps, tons of beautiful photo stills inside. That could not have been a cheap product to produce. I am always surprised by the number of games out there that follow this premise -- big pretty hardcovers for a high price rather than less-pretty soft covers for a lower price (and, thus, hopefully higher value and profit margins).

These are the lessons I'm tempted to draw from the whole Decipher experience, informed by similar conversations going on after TSR/WOTC canned the late, great ALTERNITY. Other thoughts?

Someone ... I think Don Mappin ... stated elsewhere that if you announce that a line has been cancelled, it becomes immediately impossible to sell any additional product in that line. They may be trying to clear their warehouses, and trying to decide whether to publish additional books that may be ready for the printer. If they formally (or even informally) announce that the line is coming to an end, that will be impossible for them.

I would take this email as a strong hint that the RPG lines are done at Decipher. Were I running a distributor, I'd be very careful about new orders. I doubt they will make a formal announcement of cancellation for some time to come, as they have nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing so.

I would tend to agree with both of your comments.

The books were absolutely beautiful, and had to have cost a pretty penney to produce. Probably one of the reasons why the ICE game lasted for so long. Simple, paper back editions at a great price. Any company the picks this game up should consider following the example of companies like Mongoose Publishing. Their modules are full of great info, are in paper back (albeit, high quality), and the prices are the most reasonable I've seen in the gaming industry as of late.

I also would guess that they are going to try and put out any editions that they've got sitting around. I'm not familiar with how the publishing of products goes, but I'll bet that books like Helm's Deep and Paths of the Wise have been printed already.

Oh, by the way, here's another correspondence from Monica. Gives an even bigger hint that they are dropping the RPG line.

"Hey,

We care about the LOTR license as much as you do. We will make sure it's in good hands.

Stay in touch,
Monica "

"Hi Monica,
I appreciate your candor. I do not want this to sound as a personal attack whatsoever. Thank you very much for your response, and you have personally been very accessible, which the fans appreciate.

I can only assume that Decipher will relinquish the right to produce the LOTR RPG, as it seems to not be as profitable for them as the TCG. All I can request is that you please, please allow this game to be sub-contracted, etc. by another company so that the game does not perish and the items, that must be near completion, are put into print.

I have a great concern that this liscense will be sat on (not with malicious intent, however) and supporters of the game will be deprived of it in any fashion.

Thank you, "

Actually it sounds more like they are probably subcontracting the game to someone else.

I guess what I meant was that they themselves would probably no longer directly be producing the game.

Hopefully, if they subcontract, they are as serious about finding a good company as Mrs. Jones says they are.

Reptile

Interesting,
As I just sent today an email to them also, although it was shorter :) - the response I got:
"No word yet - I am expecting an announcement any day.

Robin

Sincerely,
Robin Collins
Customer Service Supervisor
Decipher, Inc.
Direct Email: robin.collins@decipher.com "

my message:
"Hi Robin,
I have looked at your website today but have seen no updated on the status of the RPG.
I need the Isengard book for my game - any idea when it will be out?
thanks. "

Not sure why that happened, Robin. I suppose it depends on who responds to your email.

Monica Jones was whom I corresponded with. A very nice and prompt person, but I wouldn't expect much from anyone over there, as they (like other game companies) are pretty secretive.

Everyone should check out this message thread at the RPG.net. Ineti brought it to our attention on the Decipher boards. It has responses by Matt Cottville and Steve Long (who wrote the core book) and is very insightful.

We will probably all just have to accept that Decipher proper will no longer be producing the game (as seems the case). We can only hope that it is subcontracted or purchased by someone who can do the game justice.

Reptile

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111565

Quote:

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Originally posted by ReptileJK
We will probably all just have to accept that Decipher proper will no longer be producing the game (as seems the case). We can only hope that it is subcontracted or purchased by someone who can do the game justice.

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Or, we fans can simply work on stuff and make it available to all who want it. There have been some great posts on this board with ideas for new supplemental material.

Sure, it won't be 'official', but we won't be constrained by the license limitations Decipher has to deal with.

Very true. Hall of Fire, for example, is an amazing webzine, that can really help keep this game running.

I have this weird thing about a game no longer being supported by the company and still playing it. I know it seems like a cop out, but it feels like backing a lame horse. I guess it's short-sighted on my part, but I'm the same way with comics. If I can't have all of the issues for a given title, I hesitate to even start collecting it. It's a weird problem of mine (some people are addicted to gambling, women, or booze, this is my addiction :D ).

I'll still play and run LOTR, but (unless it is sub contracted by someone good) to me doing so will always be a reminder of what should have been.

:(

Reptile

Quote:

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Originally posted by ReptileJK
I have this weird thing about a game no longer being supported by the company and still playing it. I know it seems like a cop out, but it feels like backing a lame horse. I guess it's short-sighted on my part, but I'm the same way with comics. If I can't have all of the issues for a given title, I hesitate to even start collecting it. It's a weird problem of mine (some people are addicted to gambling, women, or booze, this is my addiction :D ).

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Well, this certainly is something many must agree with. Perhaps so much so that it is a major concern of companies - it would explain why announcing the end of a game line would kill sales of existing stock, no?

;)

Absolutely correct.

I have been reading all the messages about the possibility of Decipher discontinuing the RPG line, both on this board and Decipher's board. Hopefully, they will subcontract it to another company that can devote enough time and resources to it, but if they don't, why should this be the end of a great game and adventure? Aren't there enough playtesters and contributors on this sight, and others, that we can continue to play and have a great time with it? The short time I've been on this board, I have read hundreds of great ideas, ranging from discussions about the rules to storylines for chronicles and adventures.

Basically, just because Decipher wants to stop publishing this product, it should be their loss, not ours.

"And that's all I have to say about that."

dustin

Quote:

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Originally posted by dustin
Aren't there enough playtesters and contributors on this sight, and others, that we can continue to play and have a great time with it? The short time I've been on this board, I have read hundreds of great ideas, ranging from discussions about the rules to storylines for chronicles and adventures.

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Absoultely right. Make up your own stuff and post it, or contribute to Gandalf of Borg's excellent Hall of Fire webzine. As long as fans make stuff for the game, it'll be supported.

Here's the problem with subcontracting: Decipher has to make at least enough money on that to make it not a losing proposition. You have to manage subcontractors, at least to some extent, and that means you have to dedicate some person to that job (at least part-time).

Now, the hints we've been getting suggest Decipher can't make money publishing the books themselves. And they'll need to take a little bit off the top to subcontract, which means the subcontractor's margins are likely to be even tighter. Any subcontractor you'd want doing the job will realize this, because they'll be smart enough to conduct a due diligence.

We don't know what standards have been established for the line -- are the books required to feature art from the shows? Are they required to be color? What happens if they decide they can't make money and cease production before the contract expires? Without these answers, it's really hard to guess what they'll do.

I suspect the delay is basically Decipher shopping the property around. I can't see any of the major players wanting the property, and I think the minor players probably can't handle it (financially or otherwise). And, some of the minor players have a poor quality track record -- if someone with a bad rep buys the property, it might as well be dead, since some customers won't migrate.

Right now, LoTR has a much better chance of being picked up that Star Trek. The former is a hot property at the moment, and the latter is not. Add to that the fact that fantasy roleplayer does better than science fiction roleplaying (with a few noteworthy exceptions). But I don't think either of these lines will be active in six months.

actually from the posts around here and rpg.net I think the LotR RPG makes money.
But not as much as decipher wanted - they wanted to go toe to toe with D&D. Given the luckluster support they gave the game, it is no surprise they failed.

Quote:

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Originally posted by ReptileJK
I have this weird thing about a game no longer being supported by the company and still playing it. I know it seems like a cop out, but it feels like backing a lame horse. I guess it's short-sighted on my part, but I'm the same way with comics. If I can't have all of the issues for a given title, I hesitate to even start collecting it. It's a weird problem of mine (some people are addicted to gambling, women, or booze, this is my addiction :D ).

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With comics, I feel the same. With only one issue missing, the story is not complete. RPGs are different, however. They are not stories, but an invitation to tell your own. I think that is the reason that so many gamers use only the Core Book and little else.

When we started our LotR game not too long ago, I knew the line could be cancelled any day. That's no reason for me to be mad at the publisher. Yes, they let us down, but I don't take it personal. I will simply continue to play.
I'll be disappointed if there should be no RotK sourcebook because I'd really like to have the trilogy complete (see above!). On the other hand... if there'll be no more books, I won't be tempted to spend money on them, so it's not too bad. ;)

Come to think of it, a lot of the RPGs we've been playing had long been cancelled by that time: Warhammer, GDW's 2300 AD, FASA's Star Trek, Albedo, and RuneQuest (my all-time favourite, even though it had a shorter life here in Germany than in the US). I don't care if they're "officially" supported. They're just rules!
With LotR, things are even better because there is so much support of the "inofficial" kind, here at this board and in many other places.

So, what the hell. Let's just play!

Quote:

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We don't know what standards have been established for the line -- are the books required to feature art from the shows? Are they required to be color? What happens if they decide they can't make money and cease production before the contract expires? Without these answers, it's really hard to guess what they'll do.

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I wonder about this too. For example, say that they were to follow along the vein of Mongoose Publishing. Assuming they aren't required to print things in color, on glossy paper, etc., they could put out decent products at a reasonable cost (or so it would seem). I could care less if the supplements are soft cover, paper pages, and all black and white. They'd probably be cheaper for us to purchase then as well. The average Mongoose supplements for Judge Dredd is about $15. :)

Quote:

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With comics, I feel the same. With only one issue missing, the story is not complete. RPGs are different, however. They are not stories, but an invitation to tell your own. I think that is the reason that so many gamers use only the Core Book and little else.

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To each his own, I guess. I agree that it's different with comics than RPGs, but I get that same feeling for some reason. Can't really explain it any better than that. THere's no doubt that I agree with you on saving the money, but it seems that their should be ways around the books costing so much (see above).

I'll keep playing LOTR, no doubt. We played MERP up until a few months before the Decipher game came out. Just doesn't feel the same. More than anything else, it's just my dissapointment in how the whole thing was handled by the company.

Cheers,
Reptile