Some Rules Questions

Greetings all. I sent a few questions to Patrick, who has graciously been helping with them. He is pretty busy of late, so I thought I'd post thema few here in case anyone else had ideas. Thanks in advance for any info! Cheers, Leo

1. Bases, Size and Starship Combat. Narrator's p. 117 has the Full
Stop move which suggests that stationary objects, like a stopped
starship, or presumably any stationary base, get +5 to Systems
Operation (Tactical) tests and -5 to their protection. So that would
mean that any base (except the occasional moving base) would always be
subject to these modifiers - base combat would be particularly lethal.
I note on Narrator's p. 143 that Stations typically have +2 to +5
Tactical maneuver modifiers, which perhaps serves the same purpose. If
the base has a +5 Tactical maneuver modifer, no need to give it an
extra +5 bonus for being Full Stopped I guess. How do you handle this?
Would you always give a stationary base/station -5 to protection as
well?
And that leads me to the next part of this question. What about
size and protection? Narrator's p.114 tells us that a failed attack
may still have hit a target, but without damaging its shields, etc.
Fair enough. But when you are designing a starship, Narrator's pg 143
(Starships p. 22), the only way to give a ship a high Protection is to
give it a powerful shield grid. But what about a speedy little ship
like the Delta Flyer that is highly maneuverable but doesn't have a
super shield? It could have a low threshhold, so that when it does get
hit, it really feels it. But I'd want it to have a pretty good
protection to reflect its quickness, size and maneuverability. Hard to
hit, but not very tough when it does get hit. Thoughts?

2. About the Galor and Keldon writeups in Starships. They seem tactically pretty much the same. Shouldn't the Keldon pack more punch? If so, any suggestions?

3. This is about the Systems Operation skill. I notice in starship combat that attacking generally uses the Systems Operation (Tactical) specialty, though you
can also use the Systems Operation (Disruptors) skill, for example, My
first question is why anyone would select the Systems Operation
(Disruptors) specialty (besides roleplaying) when they evidently
wouldn't get the benefit of the specialty on a phaser-equipped ship.
I'm also assuming that when someone fires at another ship, and the
attacker has Systems Operation (Tactical) +4, then when they attack
they roll their 2d6 and add 4 for their level, 2 for having the
specialty (Tactical), plus their Intellect modifier if any. Did I miss
anything? Seems like that +2 for the (Tactical) specialty will almost
always apply, as so many ships will have someone with Systems
Operation (Tactical).
And finally, about the Tactics skill. I notice that some of the
sample characters (like Kirk and Picard, Players pp. 239 and 242) have
Tactics (space). When determining starship combat initiative and
command maneuvers, we use the Tactics skill, but is it the (Space)
specialty that applies, giving a +2 for the specialty to anyone who
has it? I notice some characters have Tactics (Federation), but based
on Narrators p. 112 ("a captain with Tactics (Romulan) squaring off
against a warbird would +2 for his specialty"), I assume this
specialty would only help against a Federation ship, not when
commanding one. Curious what you think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lladell

Greetings all. I sent a few questions to Patrick, who has graciously been helping with them. He is pretty busy of late, so I thought I'd post thema few here in case anyone else had ideas. Thanks in advance for any info! Cheers, Leo

---

I'm not Patrick, but I hope I'll do.

Quote:

---

1. Bases, Size and Starship Combat. Narrator's p. 117 has the Full
Stop move which suggests that stationary objects, like a stopped
starship, or presumably any stationary base, get +5 to Systems
Operation (Tactical) tests and -5 to their protection. So that would
mean that any base (except the occasional moving base) would always be
subject to these modifiers - base combat would be particularly lethal.
I note on Narrator's p. 143 that Stations typically have +2 to +5
Tactical maneuver modifiers, which perhaps serves the same purpose. If
the base has a +5 Tactical maneuver modifer, no need to give it an
extra +5 bonus for being Full Stopped I guess. How do you handle this?
Would you always give a stationary base/station -5 to protection as
well?

---

That maneuver is not a blanket statement that stationary objects get those modifiers. It's more of a one-round sort of thing with sudden stop. Besides, wouldn't logic suggest that something always standing still is going have quite a hard time hitting something buzzing around it at high speed?

Quote:

---

And that leads me to the next part of this question. What about
size and protection? Narrator's p.114 tells us that a failed attack
may still have hit a target, but without damaging its shields, etc.
Fair enough. But when you are designing a starship, Narrator's pg 143
(Starships p. 22), the only way to give a ship a high Protection is to
give it a powerful shield grid. But what about a speedy little ship
like the Delta Flyer that is highly maneuverable but doesn't have a
super shield? It could have a low threshhold, so that when it does get
hit, it really feels it. But I'd want it to have a pretty good
protection to reflect its quickness, size and maneuverability. Hard to
hit, but not very tough when it does get hit. Thoughts?

---

In the combats this system is meant to mirror, with a few rare exceptions, maneuverability was rarely an issue when it came to difficulty to hit. With all the computer targeting and so on that is inherent in the Trek setting, It's not a question of hitting, it's a question of getting through their shields. That's why the CODA starship combat system calls damage "Penetration". :)

Quote:

---

2. About the Galor and Keldon writeups in Starships. They seem tactically pretty much the same. Shouldn't the Keldon pack more punch? If so, any suggestions?

---

I noticed that myself, as did one-time line developer Jesse Heinig. Jesse was planning to develop errata for many of the ships in Starships, but it never came to pass due to Decipher's RPG division collapsing under unrealistic expectations...

Quote:

---

3. This is about the Systems Operation skill. I notice in starship combat that attacking generally uses the Systems Operation (Tactical) specialty, though you can also use the Systems Operation (Disruptors) skill, for example, My
first question is why anyone would select the Systems Operation (Disruptors) specialty (besides roleplaying) when they evidently wouldn't get the benefit of the specialty on a phaser-equipped ship.

---

The answer is in the question. In the TOS era, Tactical was divided into weapons and shields, and sometimes even further divided into specific weapon types. The latter was to simulate, say, phaser crews...

Quote:

---

I'm also assuming that when someone fires at another ship, and the
attacker has Systems Operation (Tactical) +4, then when they attack they roll their 2d6 and add 4 for their level, 2 for having the specialty (Tactical), plus their Intellect modifier if any. Did I miss anything? Seems like that +2 for the (Tactical) specialty will almost always apply, as so many ships will have someone with Systems Operation (Tactical).

---

No, that's about right.

Quote:

---

And finally, about the Tactics skill. I notice that some of the sample characters (like Kirk and Picard, Players pp. 239 and 242) have Tactics (space). When determining starship combat initiative and command maneuvers, we use the Tactics skill, but is it the (Space) specialty that applies, giving a +2 for the specialty to anyone who has it? I notice some characters have Tactics (Federation), but based on Narrators p. 112 ("a captain with Tactics (Romulan) squaring off against a warbird would +2 for his specialty"), I assume this
specialty would only help against a Federation ship, not when commanding one. Curious what you think.

---

Actually, I'd still give the specialty bonus if commanding a Federation ship, because of your familiarity of what tactics work and don't work with that organization's ships. As for which specialty applies, that's up to the Narrator, really...

Hi Doug

Thanks much for your response. Now I'm getting the picture. I can see what you mean about stationary objects firing at moving ones. I had been thinking a moving starship's targeting system would have more to deal with than if it was stationary, but perhaps the difference in the attacker and defender's speeds is more of an issue, especially when the speeds are so high.

Indeed, the cases where a defender's maneuverability helped it avoid attack in the various series were rare. And don't get me wrong - I like the protection/threshhold system. I was just looking for a way to handle those special cases. But I suppose a small ship darting among asteroids (for example) to avoid being hit could be handled as a helm maneuver that could modify the attacker's TN rather than giving a permanent bonus to protection.

Cheers, Leo

[QUOTE=Doug Burke;172410]I'm not Patrick, but I hope I'll do.

That maneuver is not a blanket statement that stationary objects get those modifiers. It's more of a one-round sort of thing with sudden stop. Besides, wouldn't logic suggest that something always standing still is going have quite a hard time hitting something buzzing around it at high speed?

In the combats this system is meant to mirror, with a few rare exceptions, maneuverability was rarely an issue when it came to difficulty to hit. With all the computer targeting and so on that is inherent in the Trek setting, It's not a question of hitting, it's a question of getting through their shields. That's why the CODA starship combat system calls damage "Penetration". :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lladell

Indeed, the cases where a defender's maneuverability helped it avoid attack in the various series were rare. And don't get me wrong - I like the protection/threshhold system. I was just looking for a way to handle those special cases. But I suppose a small ship darting among asteroids (for example) to avoid being hit could be handled as a helm maneuver that could modify the attacker's TN rather than giving a permanent bonus to protection.

---

That's why they provided the Nimble Edge and there's a combat maneuver in Starships that mirrors the Defiant maneuvering around larger Dominioon ships and being harder to hit. Can't remember the name at the moment, though...

To simulate the fact that misses are very rare in the computer-assisted targeting of Trek combat, I usually just ballpark any to hit roll below 8-10 (depending on combat circumstances) as a clean miss (rare but they DO occur) and anything above the "miss" TN and below the protection to have hit the shields harmlessly.

Thanks guys. I like the 8-10 total roll method - I will try that out. It will come in handy when the attacking ship's crew is down to the ship's cook taking the tactical station. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lladell

Thanks guys. I like the 8-10 total roll method - I will try that out. It will come in handy when the attacking ship's crew is down to the ship's cook taking the tactical station. :D

---

Granted, the 8-10 range doesn't really come into play with an attacking ship that is at full operational capacity, but as the battle damage mounts and those little penalties start creeping in...

Also, something I forgot to mention (since I really should be working on that Econ paper instead of browsing the forums :( ) but that 8-10 should be modified upward if the targeted ship has any maneuvers that effect protection in play (i.e. 10-12 if target has just executed Minimal Aspect or 13-15 after Come About or Hard About, etc).

On the slightly off-topic topic of enemy skill rating, where do most of you fall in the ranking? Typically I set enemy skill levels around 4-5, except for my especially noteable villain crews who must live to fight again. Maybe its personal bias from past experience with iron-fisted GM types, but I don't feel that a campaign where the player characters' ship is in drydock for six weeks after every battle is the key to a happy and well adjusted group. I try to save the "pound the snot out of the PCs" villains for special occasions. What say ye?