Enlisted as a first officer?

[Pericles]

If the ship is small enough, its actually possible for an enlisted man to be the commander of the ship. This is common with landing craft used since World War Two and with the River Patrol Boats used during Viet Nam.

[TJLanza]

Originally posted by Pericles
If the ship is small enough, its actually possible for an enlisted man to be the commander of the ship. This is common with landing craft used since World War Two and with the River Patrol Boats used during Viet Nam.

While technically true, I'm not sure I'd call that "commander of the ship." That's almost like saying an enlisted soldier is the commander of the car he borrows from the motor pool.

[Pericles]

I did a quick web search and found the following link to make sure I remembered this correctly:
The website shows the Petty Officer was offically classified as captain. The following is an excerpt from the above link.

"The PBR was manned by a four man crew - normally a first class petty officer as boat captain, a gunner's mate, an engineman and a seaman. Each crewman was cross trained in each other's job encase one became unable to carry out his duties. Generally PBRs operated in two boat patrols under the command of a patrol officer who rode one of the boats in addition to the normal crew."

As for the landing craft of WW2...most history buffs remember the famous scene of General Douglas MacArthur wading through the surf to "return" to the Phillipines, what is less know is that wading wasn't his idea. The Petty Officer Coxwain who was in charge of the landing craft the general was on, didn't think the landing craft could get any closer to the shore and not be damaged. As Coxwain of the landing craft, and technically captain, the coxwain refused to get any closer and on his authority as master of that vessel, this junior enlisted man made a FIVE STAR GENERAL get out and walk in the surf. Never one to miss the opportunity to blow his own horn, MacArthur then thought walking through the surf would make a great photo op, he reinacted the wading scene several times for the waiting cameras and newsreels. So regardless of size of vessel, the title of Captain or Coxwain carries a lot of weight.
Obviously the Trekverse doesn't have anything like the PBRs used in Viet Nam, but the point was could an enlisted man be a first officer. I submit that in a small ship with only one officer he could be, or on a small enough ship he could even be listed as captain.

[TJLanza]

Maybe on something like a runabout or a shuttle - the closest things to an RPB and a transport, respectively - but neither of these is a capital ship. Neither of them has enough crew to require an Executive Officer, and I certainly wouldn't call the pilot a Commanding Officer. He's just the guy driving... and probably the one who's responsible if something does happen. That gives him a certain measure of authority, but far less than the Captain of a vessel.

[Owen E Oulton]

"Obviously the Trekverse doesn't have anything like the PBRs used in Viet Nam, but the point was could an enlisted man be a first officer. I submit that in a small ship with only one officer he could be, or on a small enough ship he could even be listed as captain."

On a ship that small, there simply wouldn't be a first officer - there's no need. "First officer" or "executive officer" does not simply means "second in command." It's far more than that - it's an administrative position, and on a ship as small as a runabout you just don't need an XO. The senior crewman/officer commands the vessel directly.

[Pericles]

I agree, any vessel small enough to have an enlisted man as captain would be far too small to need an XO, but as the MacArthur and PBR examples point out, he's still called the captain and has as much authority over his vessel as any ship of the line.
Given the administrative nature of the executive officer, I would guess that in a grouping of such small boats, one officer would be in command of the squadron and the most senior enlisted man would have appointed duties very similar to that of XO even without the official title.
Regardless of the semantics, we would be dealing with very small ships and the original question was could an enlisted be XO. I think we all agree that, aside from on the tiniest ships, the answer is no.

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
"Obviously the Trekverse doesn't have anything like the PBRs used in Viet Nam, but the point was could an enlisted man be a first officer. I submit that in a small ship with only one officer he could be, or on a small enough ship he could even be listed as captain."

On a ship that small, there simply wouldn't be a first officer - there's no need. "First officer" or "executive officer" does not simply means "second in command." It's far more than that - it's an administrative position, and on a ship as small as a runabout you just don't need an XO. The senior crewman/officer commands the vessel directly.

Actually, on a PBR or other small boat, there is an "Officer in Charge," not a commanding officer. Most PBR/small boats are organized into squadrons, with a single commanding officer over a group of boats. And the squadron would have an XO (who would be an officer).

Now, that said, the OIC of an individual boat could conceivable be a chief petty officer (although most likely a young ensign or lieutenant, j.g.).