Decipher Revelations about TrekRPG

[Sarge]

Quit beating around the bush, SJohn, and tell us what you really think.

Just wanted to tell you that if you don't want to write for Christian, there'll be lots of people who'll buy any STRPG ebooks you want to do online.

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<<<<

LUGTrek isn't really dead. Not as long as we remember it.

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Sjohn:
Steve Long: "There aren't going to be any re-prints of any existing LUG books."

Ah, so Christian was lying to string me along. Figures. Well, tell the pigfuc*er from me that I won't be writing for him.

Woosh! (Sound of bridge being burnt.)

And it certainly doesn't excuse Don being a snot.

I was? Um, okay. In fact, the only person I see being a snot and pouting is...ohnevermind.

(sigh)

Group hug, anyone?

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Don
trekrpg@trekrpg.net

[Liquidator Queeg]

*Steve gives everyone a big hug*

On to business:

Christian makes it clear in his interview on Radio Free Decipher that the first order of business for the development team is a "re-visit" to the roleplaying game. He specifically mentions that starship combat is an area of the game that he feels they can streamline a bit better in the new version of the game. He also says that they intend to keep the same cinematic feel of the LUG game, and are planning some "higher ticket" and "flashier" products under the new Decipher flag. Lastly, Christian mentions that LUG had already planned a second edition of the game rules, and that three years of playtesting, production, and dealing with Paramount has taught them some valuable lessons about what types of Star Trek gaming products work, and which ones don't.

Reading between the lines, it seems that the new game will feature all of the same flavor and color that the LUG writers injected into the Star Trek universe, but it will be a revamped, smoother version of the ICON System. Perhaps this means they'll go with a single whoopass Core Book for "Trek Roleplaying" that has a high price tag, and move away from the TNG, DS9, and TOS line format that LUG followed. I'm guessing that it won't carry the "ICON" label, but it's just supposition on my part.

What is clear though, is that the products are going to be aimed at a much larger audience. The collection of resources at Decipher (such as the official Star Trek fan club, the startrek.com online store and the Communicator mag) are clearly going to help provide the new game with a broader "non-gamer" audience. I think LUG did a good job of appealing to non-gamer Trek fans, but this is going to be an even bigger priority for Decipher (West Coast ) with its new lineup of products for the next few years.

So will there be any re-prints of LUG books? Steve answered that one above. From a business perspective it just doesn't make any sense. I have no idea about the legal end of things.

Just my two cents on the whole issue. YMMV.

Steve

[This message has been edited by Steven A Cook (edited 03-18-2001).]

[Greg Smith]

Originally posted by Gaz:
Does this mean they will reprint all the book that went out of print before we could by them in the UK.

I have to ask, what books couldn't you get? To my knowledge, the only product not readily available in the UK was Red Alert.

Try www.leisuregames.com they have pretty much everything.

Now back to the regular flamewar.



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Greg

"Calm may work for Locutus of Borg here, but I'm freaked and intend to stay that way."

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Steven A Cook:
So will there be any re-prints of LUG books? From a business perspective it just doesn't make any sense.

It doesn’t? Strange, to me it makes perfect business sense!


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Don
trekrpg@trekrpg.net

[Liquidator Queeg]

Sarcasm, Don?

Or did I misunderstand your post on the previous page of this thread?

Posted by Don:

"Taking what I do know plus a bit of logic and business sense, leads me to the ultimate conclusion that there will not be any reprints of LUG product."

Without any official comments to go by, is Decipher legally able to do so?

Steve

[This message has been edited by Steven A Cook (edited 03-18-2001).]

[mactavish]

Well alrighty then...

So, there I was, in the Congo [that is a non-sequitur meant to move the conversation on to other avenues]...

Okay, then I guess I'll just hang on to the books that I already have, tattered though they may be.

Let's not continue the flame war... it just promotes bad feelings all the way around. I thought the whole point of a thread like this was to talk about the possibility of good things happening.

Just a thought.

mactavish out.

[This message has been edited by mactavish (edited 03-18-2001).]

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Steven A Cook:
Sarcasm, Don?

I think we’re caught in the middle of misunderstanding. You said, “From a business perspective it just doesn't make any sense.” I took that to mean that you thought that it make sense to reprint the books.

Hence my reply.

I think, now, that we’re both in agreement that it doesn’t make sense, from a business perspective (hell, any perspective), to reprint the old LUG books.

Without any official comments to go by, is Decipher legally able to do so?

As far as I know, not at this time. Also, as far as I know, they have no desire to do so.


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Don
trekrpg@trekrpg.net

[Liquidator Queeg]

Gotcha Don! Sorry for the confusion.

I should finish my sentences: "From a business perspective it just doesn't make any sense to reprint any LUG books."

Here's a question for everyone:

Does buying a single "Core Book" (say, larger in size but similar to Wizard's Star Wars Core Book) for Trek roleplaying appeal to you more than buying separate core books for each "line" (a la LUG)?

I'd be more inclined to get a single grandaddy game book (even though it would likely be in the $60 US range), and then pick up specific, smaller-scale "series" line books. This was always one thing that annoyed me about LUG, even though I consider all the core books works of art.

Steve

[Sjohn]

I think, now, that we’re both in agreement that it doesn’t make sense, from a business perspective (hell, any perspective), to reprint the old LUG books.

My Narrator's Toolkit is one of the best books ever written to guide first-time gamers into the task of adventure creation, and I don't mind saying so. It would certainly make an excellent addition to any plan to broaden the value of a Trek RPG to new gamers, especially if it were edited together with the other Toolkits to form o solid whole. Certainly, Christian has claimed to believe so, as has Ken Hite. Of course, given their history of causing me and my family loss and pain, and of lying through their teeth to me, who knows what they really think?

Christian approached me about writing for Decipher. I expressed tentative interest (due to my love of the subject matter, not due to any foolish trust of Christian), and I asked him, explicitly, about the possibility of reprints.

It would be illegal for me to cite his response, but it doesn't jibe with the revelations made here. This reminds me far too much of many events in the past.

I had harbored hopes that the new developments would put an end to the horrors and abuses and let me get back to writing what I enjoy writing about. But it's clear, now, that Christian will be back to his old tricks again, wherever he's permitted to be. I don't think I need to have more family events cancelled, more fear of going without medicine, more lies upon lies and broken promises upon broken promises.

And I can weather only so many insults. I'm gone from this forum forever. I have work to do elsewhere.

It's been (mostly) great. Some other time and place, perhaps.

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Sjohn:
I think, now, that we’re both in agreement that it doesn’t make sense, from a business perspective (hell, any perspective), to reprint the old LUG books.

My Narrator's Toolkit is one of the best books ever written to guide first-time gamers into the task of adventure creation, and I don't mind saying so. It would certainly make an excellent addition to any plan to broaden the value of a Trek RPG to new gamers, especially if it were edited together with the other Toolkits to form o solid whole.

Yes, but that's not what we're talking about here. There’s a big difference between assembling and reworking said material for a compilation, and just turning on the presses to make more copies of “The First Line.”

Mostly everyone is talking about the latter, not the former. People are asking if they’ll ever be able to get copies of the old LUG works in the form of reprints.

While I will admit it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility that pieces of prior LUG products may resurface in some manner because they are now part of the larger Star Trek intellectual property, seeing books, en masse, appear from reprints will not, I continue to contend, happen. (But hey, I could be wrong.)

I agree that material in the Narrator Toolkits would be a welcome sight to reappear in whatever form.

Don
(Who just realized he’s talking to himself now.)

[Lapdog]

Originally posted by Steven A Cook:
Here's a question for everyone:

Does buying a single "Core Book" (say, larger in size but similar to Wizard's Star Wars Core Book) for Trek roleplaying appeal to you more than buying separate core books for each "line" (a la LUG)?

I'd be more inclined to get a single grandaddy game book (even though it would likely be in the $60 US range), and then pick up specific, smaller-scale "series" line books. This was always one thing that annoyed me about LUG, even though I consider all the core books works of art.

There's no way on God's green Earth that I'd even consider purchasing some compiled tome like you describe. And the number of reasons for that decision are nearly endless....
For one, I'd never shell out that much money (that you hypothesize) for a single Rpg. And it's not due to lack of income. In my mind, no core game could possibly be worth paying more than $35 for. No matter how high the production values, how magnificent the writing, or how large the page count. We are talking games here..... and how many gamers (of your consumer market pool) could really be expected to swallow that kind of introductory expenditure?
Secondly, there are elements of the Trek Rpg universe that I would eagerly purchase and other features that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. When I look to pick up future Trek Rpg products, I want big, steaming piles of TOS material. I want so much of it that I'd almost choke on it. To me, TOS embodies the spirit of Trek, and when I roleplay Trek that is the era that gets the majority of my attention.
I wouldn't mind seeing some inclusion of TNG.... or maybe a small smattering of DS9. But I'd prefer to see not even a glimmer of Voyager. None.. Zip... Zero.

Thirdly, I couldn't even imagine how bloated a manuscript that would be if it were to compile all those different Trek eras. 500 pages? Gods, no! Who wants to pack that unabridged Webster's dictionary around with them? I can already feel a twinge of lower back pain. How long would it take me to leaf through the manuscript to find the detailed information on the Trek era that I'm interested in? It'd have to have one hell of an index or table of contents.

In my opinion, separating the Trek eras is the only way to do it. There'll always be some gamers that love specific eras and loath others. By separating the core books you can appeal to most everyone. Even yourself.... if you want all the material at your disposal then purchase all the core books.
Personally, I don't.


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Lapdog
Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife- chopping off what's incomplete and saying: "Now, it's complete because it's ended here."

[Cochrane]

I posted a lengthy contribution to the wish list at www.decipher.com . A few points: I wanted one large gamemaster book, and a cheap player book. I've also got the idea for a Federation core book, a Klingon core book, etc. I also made suggestions about character sheets, types of sourcebooks, and miniatures. Of course, someone could start a similar wish list here.

[Phantom]

Gabriel, I have to say that I agree with the majority of your points:
1) Rules Well done
2) Starship Combat REALLY needs work
3) Single Core Rule book, here is where I somewhat disagree with you. I like the idea of the single core rulebook, always have. It seems to me to be a bit of a money grab with multi-rules for what is basically the same game. Personally, I think the corebook should center on TNG era, then put out supplements for the other eras, include errates if necessary, but any order would work for me.

There really was no need for TNG, DS9, TOS and the aborted VOY to each have a corebook rulebook, they all have the same rules!

4) Format, my only complaint about format is that the sourcebooks they came out with were far below the art quality I expect in a game. I know that alot of people are going to say "art means nothing, give me a good system and background everytime". And I would agree, but the artwork is part of the marketabilty of the product, albeit a small part in most cases. They put alot of work in the corebooks to make them look really good, why not put the same effort into the supplements? The supplements look like they were thrown together in a hurry. The Romulan box set is a good example, good external artwork (catches the eye), an excellent source of info (I would like to see more), but the art inside is a little to be desired. I have to admit I felt a little cheated when I opened the box, but only a little.

Although I am not Decipher's biggest fan, I await to see what they have planned. And prepared to shell out for another corebook when they change the system.

End of Rant.

[Caretaker]

Wow, avoid the board for a few days and look what happens.

I'm sorry, SJohn, I didn't realize you harbored any of these feelings.

I personally would love to see reprints, particularly of LUG's best.

I await more details.