How WW2 was won according to Hollywood

[JonA]

THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN WAS WON BY A SINGLE AMERICAN AIRMAN (...OR SO HOLLYWOOD IS ABOUT TO TELL US)


Winston Churchill said it was our "finest hour", but yesterday it was revealed the Battle of Britain was won single-handedly by Tom Cruise. Amid outrage from the West's war veterans and military historians, a new Hollywood film will claim that one American, Billy Fiske - played by Cruise - was responsible for the 1940 victory. But he didn't shoot down a single plane.

Fiske was one of a handful of Americans who volunteered to fight in the battle, as the US was yet to enter the war. He was killed by German Stuka bombers in August 1940.

His story is to be retold in the film The Few directed by Michael Mann, who made the fighter pilot hero movie Top Gun, also starring Cruise, and filming is due to start soon.

"I've heard it is almost like he won the war all on his own," said war veteran Ben Clinch, who loaded the guns fired by the real Billy Fiske. "I can't see how they can make a film of Fiske's life. He was unremarkable, in the context of the squadron. He was just another pilot as far as we were concerned."

Fiske's short life is perfect movie material - the handsome son of a wealthy Chicago businessman, he won a bobsleigh gold medal at the Winter Olympics when he was just 16, married the former Countess of Warwick and raced at Le Mans.

However, winning the Battle of Britain was not one of his many accomplishments. "He made several sorties but he didn't shoot anything down, and his impact on the battle was negligible," said Bill Bond, of the Battle of Britain historical society.

Jack Younie, 84, of Radstock in Somerset, joined the RAF just before the battle began. He said: "It will make it look as though the Americans were everywhere, but they were hardly there at all.

"There were pilots from India, Canada, Australia, South Africa and a few from America.

"But the vast majority were British. And our pilots did a great job. If they had lost the Battle of Britain, that would have been the end of everything. Hitler would simply have walked all over us.

"They're just trying to make a box-office hit, and they tend to hype it up with things that frankly stretch the imagination."

Hollywood has a habit of ignoring facts to glorify the deeds of Americans. In the 2000 film U-571, US seamen recovered an Enigma code machine from a sinking German submarine and changed the course of World War II. Enigma was in fact retrieved by the British crew of HMS Bulldog.

The basis for the new film is that the British were on their knees and desperate for help in their fight for aerial superiority with the Luftwaffe. There were, apparently, aeroplanes sitting in hangars and a shortage of pilots. A few brave Americans answered the call - risking jail in the then neutral US - and saved the day.

Recalling another piece of Tinseltown propaganda, military historian and former RAF pilot Colin Pomeray, of Dorset, said: "It is like John Wayne being the big D-Day hero in The Longest Day.

"The whole idea sounds rather nauseating. It's impossible that any one man could have won the Battle of Britain.

"There simply weren't lots of Spitfires sitting in hangars, and I've never heard of the American volunteers facing the prospect of prison.

"Fiske was a brave man, all the Americans were brave - but there were only a very small number of them. The problem is that after this, a lot of people watching the film in America will actually believe that is the way it happened."


http://www.westpress.co.uk/displayN...ntentPK=9562995

[AslanC]

While that does sound odd, it should be pointed out that Tony Scott, not Michael Mann, directed Top Gun.

[Greg Smith]

But a large part of the American cinema audience aren't interested in real history - the new Alamo film tanked at the box office.

[Liquidator Queeg]

Why am I not surprised by this news. It reads like the same old Choose-Our-Own-History rah-rah, pseudo propaganda cinema crap that's been coming out of Lollygagwood for half a century.

It's not history, it's the circus that many numnuts want to see on screen.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for circuses in their proper place. I loved The Scorpion King, for example! Historical cinema it is not, though.

LQ

[ComaBoy]

Originally posted by Greg Smith
But a large part of the American cinema audience aren't interested in real history - the new Alamo film tanked at the box office.

Perhaps that's due to the fact that the battle of the Alamo is rather underwhelming (IMO)

By the way, just as a note, there were also Polish pilots flying for the RAF during the war as well.

[JonA]

Originally posted by ComaBoy
Perhaps that's due to the fact that the battle of the Alamo is rather underwhelming (IMO)

By the way, just as a note, there were also Polish pilots flying for the RAF during the war as well.

Yes - and Australian, South African, French and New Zealand pilots. Oh and some Americans too.

[Greg Smith]

IIRC it was a South African who scored the most confirmed kills during the Battle. But counting kills for personal glory was not considered a done thing, unlike the Luftwaffe.

[Jem'hadar]

I don't know anything about the real-life Fiske or the upcoming moview starring Tom Cruise, but I understand some of the sentiments expressed in that article.

I remember that WW2 submarine movie a few years ago about capturing the enigma machine. While entertaining, it was not based on historical fact. The first enigma machine was captured by Poles after Poland was invaded. The second one was captured by the British. In 1943, a US aircraft carrier group operating off S. America captured the another one & the captured German U-boat is now a museum display in Chicago. I've visited that museum & it's very interesting.

I don't understand why Hollywood has to either make up WW2 stories or exaggerate real ones. The true stories of WW2 are usually more interesting & exciting than the fake ones. I wish Hollywood would make more of those. They don't need to invent stories that an audience would see; there are hundreds of good historical books out there that can be the basis of any WW2 movie.

I'm looking forward to the movie about the rescue of American POWs in the Philippines near the end of the war by Rangers. I read a book about the account which was fascinating. While I'm sure the movie won't be 100% accurate to history, I hope that they will put as much historical facts in as possible.

[Dan Gurden]

Well, it is worth noting that one of the Royal Navy veterans involved in the recovery of the Enigma from the U-Boat was quoted as saying that he could not see what all the fuss was about with the film showing Americans stealing the device, as 'Very few people knew or cared about the raid before the films release'.

Which is a fair point. As was their note during the credits of said film, which appropriatly does give the Royal Navy credit where its due...

Shame that only those credit watchers saw that admission.

Now to the Battle of Britain. I think in this case it may well be worth judging said film on script and content, rather than jumping up and down BEFORE cameras start rolling. Not that it would make much difference, if it was just a flag waving exercise.

For those that care, instead watch 'Dark Blue World' a Czech film about the Czech volunteers. Its about 50% foreign language cinema, but a damn fine piece of film with some rather attractive Spitfire in flight camerawork.

Now THATS a good film, and not one that would ever have been made before the Czech's came out from Communist rule.

[Eric R.]

The best film about the battle of Britain was . . . Well . . . The Battle of Britain made in 1969 with real He 111's, Ju 88s, Spitfires and the rest. Told from both sides fairly well and giving enough background to make one understand what was going on. The cast was all British Micheal Caine, Trevor Howard, Ian McShane, Laurence Olivier, Robert Shaw, and of course for trek fans Chistopher Plummer. The DVD is fairly easy to fine these days for 8.99 at Walmart.

It has one of the best lines I have heard for any war movie to show fighting spirit.

"Stay in Formation"

[spit rolls w/polish pilot]

"Repeat please"

"get back here damn you"

[Another spit rolls w/another polish pilot]

Repeat please"

and on and on . . .


In addition the PBS 6 hour mini series which was aired back in 1990 was great, I believe thta was an original BBC show as well.

BTW The RAF did have planes in warehouses and not enough pilots, thats a fact. That was why so much emphises was placed on getting those "few" expiererenced pilots who were shot downed back up (sometimes the same day). In addition when a German went down he either became a POW (bailing out over England) or drowned in the channel. The battle was always about numbers and the movie really showed this aspect well.

[Owen E Oulton]

"The cast was all British ... and of course for trek fans Chistopher Plummer."

Plummer's Canadian. Born in Toronto in 1927.

[Chris Landmark]

Originally posted by Eric R.
In addition the PBS 6 hour mini series which was aired back in 1990 was great, I believe thta was an original BBC show as well.

I think I remember that one. Wasn't it called "A Piece of Cake" or something like that? Started out in France with an RAF squadron (with I think an American volunteer thrown in the mix) that expected to be home by Christmas, ended durring the Battle of Brittain with all or most of the original members dead?

Thought it was pretty good myself.

-Chris Landmark

[Tobian]

Oh wow - there's another novel concept - americans come in and save the day again *yawn* - I'll just rack it up with all of the other pseudo-history films I'll make a point of black balling.

I simply refuse to watch U-571 despite any cinematic qualities it may or may not have - if one less person watches it maybe they might think about making another one (yeah right - oh well, that and I loathe the idea!)

I know that allot of histories are fudged in films and tv, but when you're dealing with recent, highly documented history you're taking the biscuit to claim the Americans had anything to do with the Enigma machines and that they won the battle of britain for us - yes technically they can say it's a question of emphasis for dramatic purposes - Cr*p - it's so they can dumn down a film and tailor it for American audiences. - The hugelly ironic part being that English flavoured films acrtually go down well in the US.

I don't know why they don't just change reality alltogether and just have Cruise fly in in an F-16 and drop a few Cruise misiles on the Germans ? Historical accuracy has already gone out the window

I'm also wondering how many *dick van Dyke's* there's going to be on the set - well if they bother to portray any english people in the film that is, it's only set in England and called the battle of Britan after all

[Greg Smith]

Originally posted by Eric R.
It has one of the best lines I have heard for any war movie to show fighting spirit.

"Stay in Formation"

[spit rolls w/polish pilot]

"Repeat please"

"get back here damn you"

[Another spit rolls w/another polish pilot]

Repeat please"

and on and on . . .

One of the flaws in the RAF's procedures was formation flying. The pilots spent too much time concentrating on flying close to the other plane and not enough on looking for the enemy.

BTW The RAF did have planes in warehouses and not enough pilots, thats a fact. That was why so much emphises was placed on getting those "few" expiererenced pilots who were shot downed back up (sometimes the same day).

New pilots recieved 8 hours training in a spitfire before being sent into a battle. A new pilot had a 1in6 chance of surviving his first sortie!

In addition when a German went down he either became a POW (bailing out over England) or drowned in the channel.

Unless he was shot down by a Pole, who would often chase the parachuting German and shoot him. While the British simply wanted to shoot down planes, the Poles wanted to kill Germans.

But back on topic, while the Americans may have won WWII, it was the British in Black Hawk Down!

[JonA]

Originally posted by Greg Smith
But back on topic, while the Americans may have won WWII, it was the British in Black Hawk Down!

You joke but I actually got chatting to an American in a bar in London who was insistant that we British wouldn't have won the Falklands War without American assistance.

And he wasn't just talking about satellite intel (which was true).

He assured me that US Spec forces, USN subs and USAF recon planes assisted HM Royal Forces in liberating the islands.

The closest I ever heard to any of that was if we'd lost one of our two carriers down there in the conflict then the US would've loaned us with one of their (old) carriers for our use. And I doubt even that's true.

But moving on.