How WW2 was won according to Hollywood

[Sarge]

Ooh boy... Guess I'll have to go see this one just to see the Spitfires (most beautiful airplane of all time) on the big screen. If it's a really bad movie, I can always just sit there, look at the airplanes, and laugh at the stupid movie, like I did with those crappy Iron Eagle movies. Maybe someday I can get a computer modified version of the movie where Tom Cruise is replaced by an Englishman.

[redwood973]

Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
"The cast was all British ... and of course for trek fans Chistopher Plummer."

Plummer's Canadian. Born in Toronto in 1927.

I am confused. By being in the Commonwealth are you not British? Is not that the point of being in the Commonwealth, to be British? Since South Africa is no longer in the Commonwealth (actually I must adimit I am not sure they were ever in) they would not be British. What is HM position in the Commonwealth, for example Canada? HM is not the Queen of Canada, right?

I guess you are both, for an example, Canadian and British. As I am both an Iowan and an American.

And now that I think of it. . .what is HM position in the U.K.? HM is the Queen of. . .? Great Britain? United Kingdom? When a new monarch is crowned is there two crownings? One in England and then one in Scottland?

Anyone want to explain this for me?

Thanks

[Owen E Oulton]

Britain is the name of a grouping of islands off the coast of Europe, of which the largest are Great Britain (the island on which England, Scotland and Wales are) and Eire (Ireland and Northern Ireland). The name Britain is also colloquially applied to the United Kingdom, which consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The countries forming the Commonwealth of Nations (formerly the British Commonwealth, and before that the British Empire) are not part of Britain, nor are their citizens British. I am a citizen of the Dominion of Canada.

The United States is part of the United Nations - does that affect your being American?

You're an Iowan and an American - that is the equivalent of my being an Ontarian and a Canadian. I am a subject of HM, our ships are styled HMCS, and so on, but we are not British, not being from Britain. Hell, I live in North America, but I'm not American either.

I am of English/Irish descent, so I'm not offended by the misunderstanding, but you try calling a Francophone Quebecois "British" and you may well offend.

Check out this link - it may answer some of your questions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations

Anyway, this may prompt some people to stray into politics, so let's get back to Hollywood revisionist histroy.

Steve McQueen aside, there were no Americans involved in The Great Escape - they'd all been moved across the camp much earlier. At least in Submarine X-1 they made American actor James Caan a Canadian (the accents are close enough to pass as long as they don't make him say "dubbaya" or "zee") - Canada had the fourth largest Allied navy in WWII.

Are the studios underestimating the intelligence of the American public? A good story is a good story - will Americans really not go see it because the protagonists are not American?

[Imagus]

Owen seems to have covered most of this pretty well...

Originally posted by redwood973
And now that I think of it. . .what is HM position in the U.K.? HM is the Queen of. . .? Great Britain? United Kingdom? When a new monarch is crowned is there two crownings? One in England and then one in Scottland?

The Queen is head of state (only, not head of government) for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and for some members of the Commonwealth (as well as the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands - which are in Great Britain but not part of the UK - confused yet? ). She has little real power in constitutional terms in any of them. I believe Australia is about to vote itself a Republic, which means the Queen would have no position there.

In my understanding, the main purpose of the Commonwealth is to provide a common forum for diplomatic and trade links. So far as I know, South Africa is still a member - Nigeria has been kicked out.

[Imagus]

Originally posted by Tobian
I'm also wondering how many *dick van Dyke's* there's going to be on the set - well if they bother to portray any english people in the film that is, it's only set in England and called the battle of Britan after all

Half the big name actors in Hollywood are British!

But as good character actors, they'll be playing Germans...

I think I'll reserve judgment on this one until I see more about it. If Pearl Harbour is anything to go by, the battle scenes will be awesome, at least!

[Imagus]

Originally posted by JonA
You joke but I actually got chatting to an American in a bar in London who was insistant that we British wouldn't have won the Falklands War without American assistance.

And he wasn't just talking about satellite intel (which was true).

I believe they supplied us with the Sidewinder 9L a little ahead of schedule, which I've heard a couple of FAA pilots saying were definitely a help. Of course, half the Argentine air force was also American built

[Greg Smith]

Originally posted by Imagus
Half the big name actors in Hollywood are British!

But as good character actors, they'll be playing Germans...

Alan Rickman, Gary Oldman or Charles Dance will be the German villains.

[Eric R.]

Originally posted by Imagus
Of course, half the Argentine air force was also American built

Actually it was French built Pucaras, Mirage IIIes, and Super Sntandards I believe that did most of the real damage including French deleievered Exocot (?sp) missiles that hurt the RN.

[Imagus]

Originally posted by Eric R.
Actually it was French built Pucaras, Mirage IIIes, and Super Sntandards I believe that did most of the real damage including French deleievered Exocot (?sp) missiles that hurt the RN.

While the Mirage, Super Etendard and Exocet are all French in origin, the Pucara is a native design. The Argentinian air force did use a number of American-built Skyhawks against the RN.

[ComaBoy]

Originally posted by Imagus
The Argentinian air force did use a number of American-built Skyhawks against the RN.

If I'm not mistaken they also had a few Learjets (which may or not have been armed with Exocets?)

[redwood973]

Thanks guys.

Again, sorry for the off topic.

[Jem'hadar]

Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
I am a citizen of the Dominion of Canada....

Are the studios underestimating the intelligence of the American public? A good story is a good story - will Americans really not go see it because the protagonists are not American?

Not to harp on this tangent, but is it technically true that neither Canada nor Australia formally declared independence from Great Britain? I know that practically speaking they are independent & govern their own external/foreign affairs & each are separate UN Members. But was there ever any formal separation of Canada and Australia from British rule?

I'm not sure if Hollywood underestimates American intelligence or we are underestimating Hollywood's intelligence, but it's true that one rarely sees historical movies by Hollywood that don't contain American characters. The most recent one that comes to mind was the Last Battle which portayed the story of Zeitsev, the Soviet sniper in Stalingrad. That involved Russians and Germans but no Americans (well, maybe some of the actors, I'm not sure). I enjoyed the movie even though it was not 100% historically accurate & didn't have an American connection.

I'm American & do enjoy stories involving military history of other countries and peoples. I've read several books & articles on military history of other peoples & seen movies/documentaries on the topic. So if Hollywood made a movie about an event in military history that didn't involve Americans, I'd go see it.

But do other countries ever make movies about American history?

[Owen E Oulton]

" but is it technically true that neither Canada nor Australia formally declared independence from Great Britain?"

Canada officially became an independant nation on July 1, 1867 with the enactment of the British North America Act. That was when we ceased to be a bunch of British Colonies and became a Dominion, voluntarily remaining in the Empire. The BNA Act remains at the heart of our Constitution, which was patriated in 1982 by Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau. Since 1867, we have our own Parliament, our own Head of Government (although as members of the Commonwealth of Nations, our Head of State is the Queen), our own military, our own laws, et cetera. Canadians travelling abroad use a Canadian Passport (so unfortunately do Israeli spys, though they do so illegally). We have our own currency, our own Postal service. Again, read the link in my earlier post.

[Capt. Anderson]

Check out Band of Brothers if you want to see a good WWII movie. Das Boat another great WWII movie. Country of Vietnam has come out with movie depicting the events in their war with USA.

On a seperate note, a Bulgarian friend of mine claims that it was his country that won WWII and invented the atom bomb. Go figure.

[redwood973]

And I continue with the off topic. . .

So what is the difffence between Head of State and Head of Government?