[CODA-SS] A Few Design Questions

[GiovanniBlasini]

Hey all,

I'm in the process of working on an updated Federation class dreadnought, pulled out of mothballs and thrown into service during the Dominion War.

The ship's supposed to be one refitted back in Kirk's time to do battle with the Furies (from the Invasion! series of novels). So, the refit emphasizes the lessons learned by Kirk and General Kellen of the Klingon Empire: extra tractor beams to peel back those big armored petals and expose the underhull; heavy-duty shields to handle the hits from the Furies' weapons; as many photon torpedo launchers as I can fit, to allow the ship to strike for the maximum amount of damage for the least amount of power; polarized hull plating to reinforce the hull, when shields go down. Phasers were going to be reduced from Type VI to Type IV, so there'd be sufficient power for the torpedoes, tractor beams, shields, impulse drive, etc. - the tractors and torpedoes were supposed to win the fight, not the phasers.

For the Dominion War era, I was planning on putting on a smaller, more efficient impulse drive, like the FIG-3, but keeping the warp drive the same - in TOS, the matter/antimatter reactions occurred in the nacelles, and I kept to that. Since I'd said the ship had emergency separation, I'd bought a second PB-32 Mod 3 warp drive, installed on the saucer only, for "emergencies" - the idea was, if the engineering hull got the snot beat out of it, they could separate the saucer, and still be combat-viable. I'd been planning to have a second shield generator jury-rigged on: first shields fail, they snap up the next set. Those fail, they polarize the hull plating, and when those fail, well, they're pretty much screwed at that point, anyway.

Anyway, whilst looking through the ships already printed up in the book, I noticed the Ambassador, a size 8 ship, is considered a modern heavy cruiser. The old Excelciors (size 7)are considered exploratory cruisers, the Intrepid (size 6) is a light explorer, etc.

So.....in the modern day and age, the size 6 Federation class seems a bit small to be considered a dreadnought. Now, considering the role I assigned it, what class do you think makes sense? The Federation doesn't build battleships or dreadnoughts anymore, instead relying on the various explorers to do the same job. Battlecruisers are out, since they build exploratory cruisers instead. In any case, she's slow, since she still has those old PB-32 engines - she can pull around 5/6.5/7 or so on the MCU scale.

Does the heavy cruiser designation make sense for this ship? Is there any logical reason I can't install backup shield generators?

Oh, and, for that matter, is the heavy cruiser the munchkin combat ship class, or is it just me? Take -1 off beam weapons and missile weapons? Yikes!

[Sea Tyger]

The heavy cruiser is only munchkin if you let it be. I always caution newcomers to Trek starship design to think like the organization they're creating the ship for.

The Federation, while it may have occasionally flirted with a pure combat design, generally doesn't build "combat monsters."

Even their heavy cruisers, arguably the most capable of all types of ships, are built with multiple missions in mind (not only defense, but research, exploration, and diplomacy).

If you take the Fedearion-class "dreadnought" as is, it would likely be a heavy cruiser in a warship's clothing. It may simply have been coined a "dreadnought" because of a greater tactical focus (an extra sphere of phaser coverage and 1-2 more torpedo launchers), at the expense of other capabilities (reduced sensor and operational reliability, just a tad bit slower, etc.), but it was still a heavy cruiser because Starfleet just didn't make pure warships.

Fast forward to the Dominion War-era, and you have this 100-year-old space frame that is being dragged out of retirement by an increasingly desperate Federation. Sure, update her weapons and propulsion, maybe even her shields, but make her Operations, Life Support and Sensor systems Outdated. Give her some odd quirks that the PCs just can't overcome (like having the engineering department constantly chasing a short around the ship).

[GiovanniBlasini]

Originally posted by Sea Tyger
The heavy cruiser is only munchkin if you let it be. I always caution newcomers to Trek starship design to think like the organization they're creating the ship for.

The Federation, while it may have occasionally flirted with a pure combat design, generally doesn't build "combat monsters."

Even their heavy cruisers, arguably the most capable of all types of ships, are built with multiple missions in mind (not only defense, but research, exploration, and diplomacy).

If you take the Fedearion-class "dreadnought" as is, it would likely be a heavy cruiser in a warship's clothing. It may simply have been coined a "dreadnought" because of a greater tactical focus (an extra sphere of phaser coverage and 1-2 more torpedo launchers), at the expense of other capabilities (reduced sensor and operational reliability, just a tad bit slower, etc.), but it was still a heavy cruiser because Starfleet just didn't make pure warships.

Fast forward to the Dominion War-era, and you have this 100-year-old space frame that is being dragged out of retirement by an increasingly desperate Federation. Sure, update her weapons and propulsion, maybe even her shields, but make her Operations, Life Support and Sensor systems Outdated. Give her some odd quirks that the PCs just can't overcome (like having the engineering department constantly chasing a short around the ship).

Had a great response all set up, then, when about to click Submit Reply, accidentally hit the Backspace key and lost it all.

So, instead, I'm going to post what I was thinking of for the refit to fight the Furies:

Federation II Class Heavy Cruiser
(2271 Anti-Furies Refit)

Size: 6
Length/Ht./Beam: 320/87/140
Decks: 23
Crew: 500
Spaces: 81
Structure Points: 30

Impulse Drive: SBE (.5c)(D)
Warp Drive: PB-32 Mod 3 (6/7/8)(D) (backup drive on saucer)

Atmospheric: no
Separation: yes (emergency)
Operations: Class 4 (E)
Life Support: Class 4 (E)
Sensors: Class 3 (+3/D)
Stealth Systems:
Shuttlebays: 1 stardrive fwd
Shuttle Capacity: 6 size worth
Transporters: 3 std, 3 cargo, 3 emg
Tractor Beams: 6 (stardrive 1 fv, 1 av, 1 ad)
(saucer 1 fv, 1 pv, 1 sv)
Cargo: 60 units

Phasers: Type IV (x5)(D)
Penetration: 5/5/4/0/0
Torpedoes: Mk. 12 IF (x12)(D)
Penetration: 7/7/7/7/7
Primary Deflectors: PFF 3 (B)
Protection/Threshold: 14/4
Backup Deflectors: none
Protection/Threshold:
Hull Polarization: HPG Mk. 2 (B)
Protection/Threshold: 10/01

Maneuver Mods: +2C, -2H, +4T

Traits:
Prototype: PFF 3 (thresh +1)

Now, some explanations. This is the refit that the Federation did in 2271, to fight the Furies. First, they installed their new prototype PFF 3 shield grid onto the ship, which will eventually find its way onto the Constitution refits, but not yet. There's a second warp drive installed, for a space point less than normal, for the saucer to use after emergency separation.

To make sure the ship had sufficient tractor beams to get the job done, since they're as important to its job as its weapon systems are, they put tractor beam emitters all over the place. The saucer section has three: one foreward ventral, one port ventral, and one starboard ventral. The engineering hull, meanwhile, has three of its own, with one each fore and aft ventral, and one aft on the dorsal side.

Kirk seemed to do OK with Type IV phasers, and they needed extra space for guns, so they downgraded the Type VI phasers on the Federation class to Type IV, and chose to install more Mk. 12 IF torpedo launchers. On the saucer section, there's a pair mounted in each broadside along the ventral side of the saucer, similar to how the dorsal phaser turrets are mounted. The stardrive/engineering hull has a pair mounted in the neck, the same way the Constitution refit will eventually get them, and also has an additional pair in each broadside, taking advantage of the extra space this section has when compared to a Constitution class.

Battle plan was to fly in, roll slightly, engage as many tractors as they could, and start pounding with their torpedo tubes and phasers. That angle would give them four tubes able to hit while doing so, and once one side started taking a beating, they simply roll to their other side. They also have their forward tubes and phasers for incoming attack runs, against areas they've already peeled back.

The Dominion War refit will look a bit more like this:

Federation III Class Heavy Cruiser
Dominion War Refit: 2374
Size: 6
Length/Ht./Beam: 320/87/140
Decks: 23
Crew: 500
Spaces: 81
Structure Points: 30

Impulse Drive: RSV (.7c)(D)
Warp Drive: PB-32 Mod 3 (5/5.8/6.5 MCU scale)(D)
(backup on saucer)

Atmospheric: No
Separation: Yes (emergency)
Operations: Class 4 (E)
Life Support: Class 4 (E)
Sensors: Class 3 (+3/D)
Stealth Systems:
Shuttlebays: 1 stardrive fwd
Shuttle Capacity: 6 size worth
Transporters: 3 std, 3 cargo, 3 emg
Tractor Beams: 3(stardrive 1 fv, 1 av; saucer 1 fv)
Cargo: 60 units

Phasers: Type VI (x5)(D)
Penetration: 5/5/4/0/0
Torpedoes: Mk. 22 DF (x10)(D)
Penetration: 7/7/7/7/7
Primary Deflectors: CIDSS-2 (C)
Protection/Threshold: 14/4
Backup Deflectors: FSQ-2 (C)
Protection/Threshold: 14/1
Hull Polarization: HPG Mk. 2 (B)
Protection/Threshold: 10/01

Maneuver Mods: +1C, -2H, +3T

Traits:
Obsolete: Helm (+2 TN)
Jury-Rigged: FSQ-2 (C reliability)
Battle-Scarred: PB-32 Mod 3
Battle-Scarred: CIDSS-2

OK, now the explanations:

The PB-32 Mod 3 system is old, making it unreliable. They looked into replacing it with a newer warp drive, but the conversion to using a modern M/AM reactor inside the engineering hull proved impossible in the timeframe they had to work in. The impulse engine, though, proved fairly straightforward to replace - they just ripped out the old SBE, installed a old RSV unit that'd been ripped out of an old Excelsior class as part of its refit. The SIF and IDF systems of the old Federation proved sufficient to handle up to .7c without too much difficulty - she was just that overengineered originally.

While they were at it, they took the old, broken down PFF 3 prototype out, and replaced it with a CIDSS-2 system, also leftover from an Excelsior refit. The problem was, the system was so old, it proved to be a complete headache with reliability, and they could never trace down the source of the problem before she assumed active duty (battle-scarred).

Phasers needed serious replacement, but Type IV turrets of the type used by the Constitution proved impossible to find in a hurry. They considered using the same Type VIII phaser turrets the Excelsior mounts, but they were afraid power draw would prove too high. OTOH, the Miranda class ships running around used Type VI turrets of the type originally designed for the Federation class way back when, so re-installing those in the ship proved to be pretty straightfoward, and wouldn't overtax the powerplants.

Torpedoes proved to be a mess - they no longer had any real stockpiles for the Mk. 12 torpedoes, so they ripped 'em all out, and installed 10 Mk. 22 DF tubes in their place, losing the pair of torpedo launchers on the neck. There'd been some trouble with the Anti-Furies variant, with their close proximity to the shuttle bay to begin with, and the larger Mk. 22 launchers just proved unworkable in that location. So, the new refit has six tubes in the saucer, and four tubes in the engineering hull.

In the course of the refit, they also ripped out all the extra tractor beams - didn't seem to be much point to have 6 of 'em anymore, so they scaled them back to 3 tractors. While they were at it, a few enterprising engineers installed a bunch of FSQ-2 deflector shield generators from runabout repair stockpiles - enough for three runabouts, but runabouts in combat these days didn't tend to last long enough to need the repairs, after all.

In terms of command and control, the systems were old, and current Starfleet personnel were completely unused to the systems. They did the best they could on updating the systems, with limited success (I gave it Obsolete: Helm, then transferred a point off of the command and tactical modifiers to compensate).

Should the ship somehow make it through the Dominion War intact, she'd probably be slated for standard heavy cruiser duties for a while, until ship production gets back up to speed, and they can replace her in the field again. I'd figure they'd rip the broadside torpedo launchers out of the saucer section, and slate that space for additional science labs. They might even go so far as to do the same to some or all of the tubes in the engineering hull, as well, freeing up 8-16 spaces for science and research labs.

So, how's that look? She's got a little less firepower than the Akira or current Excelsior refits, is sluggish in terms of speed and responsiveness, but can take a serious beating before falling, thanks to the backup shield generators and hull polarization. In a battle, I'd see her job as drawing fire from Dominion & Cardassian forces: she's got the firepower to hurt the enemy, and her age would make 'em thing she'd be an easy kill....until the secondary shield generators snap up.

Edit - don'tcha just hate when you're making mods on the fly, and accidentally forget to change some of the things in the post?

Anyway, that's the corrected version. I could probably pack more photons in either variant, by jury-rigging them on, but I think that'd prolly be a bit much.

[tonyg]

For the type III refit, you could probably give her LN-64 warp engines. THe COnstitution, Miranda, and COnstellation class ships all seem to use them, so thee might be some spares. THay had to make those Connie kitbashes from something.


One difficulty upgrading weapons systems is that when you do this in large numbers it doesn'T work out as cost effective. Try putting in stronger phasers and you will see what I mean.