The Class Nearly Every Cadet Fails

[Megamanfan]

20th century history. Whenever someone travels through time to the 20th century they always act like they have no idea about the time period. yet Picard goes and reads Shakepseare, so they can't be totally ignorant of the past .

They should've paid more attention during class and less time at frat parties.

[Owen E Oulton]

How well does the ordinary person know the ins and outs of the 17th century? Not many, I'd wager. Even well-educated persons know only the broad strokes of history (historians aside) and wouldn't know that much about the day to day minutae.

Further, it was stated in TOS (Spock, in Space Seed) that much of the history of the late 20th century was lost during WWIII - presumably much of this information was stored in electronic form and was wiped by EMP from the nuclear weapons used. Oh, sure, a lot of paper records would have survived, but books today are considered disposable and printed on paper which decomposes readily.

[Don Mappin]

This is one of my pet peeves in Trek: nearly every character, in some fashion, being an expert on some aspect of the 20th century.

Paris' infatuation with Captain Proton and muscle cars really got me.

[Bill Harris]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
This is one of my pet peeves in Trek: nearly every character, in some fashion, being an expert on some aspect of the 20th century.

Nearly every character? Hardly.

There may have been one or two per series that knew something about it (Paris on Voyager, for example), but they were in no way "experts" on this era.

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Bill Harris
There may have been one or two per series that knew something about it (Paris on Voyager, for example), but they were in no way "experts" on this era.

I said in a particular aspect; not the entire era. Don't put words in my mouth.

Picard / Shakespeare, literature, philosophy, theater
Riker / Jazz, music
Data / Pretty much anything
Crusher / Dance and theater

Sisko / Baseball
O'Brien / 20th century battles, racquetball, kayaking, darts
Bashir / Racquetball, spy novels

Janeway / Literature, skiing, Amelia Earhart, tennis
Paris / Cars, pool, classic television
Kim / Literature, music
Chakotay / Native American mysticism

Archer / Water polo, Eagle scout
Reed / Eagle scout

These, mind you, are just off the top of my head. And while we can debate the character's level of expertise endlessly, for the purposes of a television show, they certainly were experts. Were a question to come up on baseball, Sisko clearly knew everything there was to know about it. Just like we expect Picard to spout off some obscure literary reference courtesy of the writers. Paris can identify a 300 year-old truck on sight and tell you what kind of engine is in it. Riker, had his character been given the chance, could have droned on-and-on about jazz. For all intents and purposes, they were experts.

For me, it just got kinda annoying after awhile. *shrug*

[strict31]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
For me, it just got kinda annoying after awhile. *shrug*

Why?


Strictly Speaking

[Rayaru]

There's every reason to believe that study of literature continues into the 24th century... same thing with sports, music and theatre; with a holodeck you can experience anything and who knows you may enjoy some of it. God knows students are made to study "old" stuff in today's world...

No fair using Data as an example.... he's a walking encyclopedia of course he's an expert. :P

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
I said in a particular aspect; not the entire era. Don't put words in my mouth.

Picard / Shakespeare, literature, philosophy, theater
Riker / Jazz, music
Data / Pretty much anything
Crusher / Dance and theater

Sisko / Baseball
O'Brien / 20th century battles, racquetball, kayaking, darts
Bashir / Racquetball, spy novels

Janeway / Literature, skiing, Amelia Earhart, tennis
Paris / Cars, pool, classic television
Kim / Literature, music
Chakotay / Native American mysticism

Archer / Water polo, Eagle scout
Reed / Eagle scout

What, the characters can't have hobbies? The writers probably used the 20th so we could easily ID with the characters interests.

One nit-pick;
Shakespeare, Native American Mysticism as well as most of the literature/philosophy studied by Picard were Pre-20th C.

Also, O'Brian was a general military historian, who had other interests then the BoB. As shown by all the times he and Bashir were parading around in medieval warrior kit, and his interest in Col. Travers (?) and the Alamo.

As for Sisko, don't most sports fanatics know just about everything about their chosen sport? Besides I beleive his favourite team was the London Kings of the 2040's (ok small diff from the 20th C.)

I don't really think it could be said that 'all' the characters had anything above the average knowledge of the 20th C. Characters like Paris were the exception then the rule.

[REG]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
This is one of my pet peeves in Trek: nearly every character, in some fashion, being an expert on some aspect of the 20th century.

Paris' infatuation with Captain Proton and muscle cars really got me.

Perhaps it is something we can relate, what with us being in the 20th and 21st century, or have some knowledge or experience closer to our time.

But you should count your blessing. At least we don't have a character whose hobby interest is 20th-century pop culture ... and a fan of boy bands & pop girls.

[Liquidator Queeg]

Well, I agree with Don on this one. It's definitely one of my Trek peeves.

It seems like almost every Starfleet character's hobbies or interests all relate to the past, and to the 20th century most frequently.

I always found this an easy out for the writers of the show. Admitedly, they threw in plenty of "future sporting/hobby" references (such as Risian hoverball, Bajoran springball, Parisi squares, 3d chess, and what have you), but it seems to me they relied far too frequently on the 20th century for plot hooks and character devices. I mean, how many times did the main characters visit the 20th century via writer-fiat, holodeck, or space-time continuum accident.

That's just my two strips. I agree with REG, though, thank goodness at least for the lack of pop culture marketing seeping into Trek.

Well, except for the Rock vs. Seven, of course.

LQ

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Phantom
What, the characters can't have hobbies?

No, they can't. That's exactly what I'm saying.

The writers probably used the 20th so we could easily ID with the characters interests.

Ya think?

Queeg summed it all up pretty good. Like I said, *I* found it annoying. Let's not make a big deal out of it. (Oh, wait...)

[Space_Cadet]

I tend to notice they avoid 20th century pop culture references beyone the 50s.

btw, i didn't know that Native American mystisim was a 20th century phenom (sp). lol

[Space_Cadet]

Originally posted by Liquidator Queeg
Well, I agree with Don on this one. It's definitely one of my Trek peeves.

It seems like almost every Starfleet character's hobbies or interests all relate to the past, and to the 20th century most frequently.

....

I tend to think the characters who have hobbies or interest that relate to the past centuries or the 20th century was a nod to how life in the past was simpler, in the character's perspective. Its like how some people nowadays have a fondness for old movies, even though they weren't born then, cause they think modern movies "suck". Me personally, I was just a speck of sperm in the 60s but i do appreciate the TOS Star Trek and have a fondness for it over the other Trek series.

[Tricky]

It was conventional wisdom that the reason that so many Trek characters are into Shakespear, Classical music and 'high culture' stuff is that these things are considered timeless.

I used to work in a CD store, and I think I sold 1 classical cd for every 1000 Rap or pop cd's. So I guess at some point we will gove up on popular music and reconnect with out 'timeless' art forms.

By the way; wouldn't music from the 17-1900's be considered 'ancient' to Trek people? It would be almost 800 years old; how many 800 year old songs do you know?

But, back on topic: Did you notice how a charcter's knowledge of 20th century life is lacking (LDS, for ecample) when it's cute, but anyother time it's dead on?

[Liquidator Queeg]

Originally posted by Space_Cadet
I tend to think the characters who have hobbies or interest that relate to the past centuries or the 20th century was a nod to how life in the past was simpler, in the character's perspective.

Yes, that's certainly true.

It's just that I think Starfleet types could have been made a little more "real" in the sense that their interests and hobbies should've spanned greater periods of time and alien cultures.

Obviously, that would have required more "explanation lines" for the cast members (so the audience would understand what hell they were going on about), taking away from other speaking parts of the shows, but it would have lent a better sense of realism in my mind.

Then again, maybe not. It could have been boring as hell. What do I know.

LQ