Do we even need Decipher anymore?

[TFVanguard]

Originally posted by mattcolville
Tension between who and who? Listen, the people at Lucas were no more aware of or interested in the LUG buyout than they would have been about your sister getting married.

Then why the line drop when LUG was bought out? That's the main unanswered question that the whole issue really raises. If this has been explained, then so be it - I just haven't heard an explanation outside of office-gossip.

I'm going to be frank; I think you're making this crap up. I don't think you've talked to any "lawyers" for either side.

No, I just picked it up from office gossip by some guys a tier removed from whatever was going on (my interest was another licensed property as an RPG). I'm not going to pretend that I'm at all in the know as to what happened as much as the people who worked there... that would be silly.

But, you have to admit that the sudden line shifting and dropping that seemed designed to keep the Star Trek and Star Wars licenses with seperate companies (as far as gaming goes) was questionable.

Besides, Lucas has publically bashed Trek before, but, as I said, I don't believe that would be the sole impetus for the decision. I can't see Lucas being that petty for something that would be a miniscule part of the franchise. (On the other hand, WEG's work dramatically influenced the franchise direction, so I guess it's possible...)

I've heard a ton of rumors on this subject, but the only things I've heard from guys who usually don't steer me wrong was that there as some issue

As someone who's job was these issues on a daily basis, the things you're putting forward are nonsense.

Then put this to bed and just say what happned, to the best of your ability. Was WOTC not interested in another space-centric line? Was Paramount concerned about the license transfer? I can envision many scenarios as to why the license went away -- but the only thing I've seen offered up was that Lucas (as in the company) didn't want to 'share space' with Star Trek.

Even with that, there can be a lot of reasons, such as WOTC being limited in what they can produce in a year, they were concerned about the direction of the Trek franchise (as is a lot of companies)... lots of possible reasons.

And, if you don't know the details, surely your own opinions on the matter can be discussed without breaking NDA or being nasty about the PTB, right? Much better than calling a stranger a liar based on something already admitted as office-gossip.

[faenril]

Originally posted by Sea Tyger
Why? What makes you think that someone can't make a good d20/OGL Trek game? No one ever thought you could do it with superheroes, yet Green Ronin produced a phenomenal game.

No, I wouldn't want to run Trek using 3.5 straight out of the book. But d20 Trek isn't going to look very different from Coda Trek.

Th old debate again : D20 is bad. Anything done with D20 is spoiling the good things, I answer no; that's not the system but the GM who gives the good (or bad) impulse (no pun intended) in a game. Personnaly I like CODA and...yes, I am not ashamed to say it, I like D20 too. I there were to be a D20 Star Strek, I would just hope,that it woulf be a good adaptation (like IMHO Babylon 5).

[Space_Cadet]

Originally posted by TFVanguard
......
Besides, Lucas has publically bashed Trek before, .....

[TFVanguard]

Source?

Starlog Magazine, ages ago. Some of his interviews... it's nothing new. I wonder why this shocks anyone, though, when most of the actual Trek Fans bash at least some aspect on a regular basis...

[Dan Gurden]

Originally posted by TFVanguard
Starlog Magazine, ages ago. Some of his interviews... it's nothing new. I wonder why this shocks anyone, though, when most of the actual Trek Fans bash at least some aspect on a regular basis...

OK.

I think this is time to either put up or shut up.

Before this thread veers dangerously into insulting territory, you will need to back up your side with Names and details.

"A couple of guys in the Office" Is not supporting fact. I hear stuff in the office thats made up daily... If you want to claim this as truth, give us names, who said what, to whom, when.

Lucas trashing Trek in an old issue of Starlog. Not counted. Which issue? The hundreds already out there mean that proclaiming 'an issue' is the proverbial needle in a haystack.

As stated in the big pic above. Source?

Without supporting information this becomes rumour, speculation, or at worst Trolling.

So take a deep breath and either move on, or prove us wrong by giving the details required to support your arguements as Matt has done...

[TFVanguard]

Without supporting information this becomes rumour, speculation, or at worst Trolling.

What an incredibly hostile forum. Of course, it wouldn't be TREK if it weren't...

I'm going off of memory for a lot of these things, and I admit that. I also admitted that my 'source', about WOTC's handling - or lack thereof - with Trek was office-gossip by a few guys who have otherwise shown to be reliable. Hardly an offficial document or anything.

But since that information is apparently wrong, and I was told so in decidedly rude fasion, why is it then unfair to ask what the correct information actually is? I said this was mostly office-gossip and fuzzily-remember articles and events from years back... yep, that's the best I can do right now. Correct me if I'm wrong.

What's not happening is that whole 'correct me' part. Just some thrown insults and 'you're wrong'. Well, then, tell me what's right and then we can all move on.

[Mac417]

Originally posted by TFVanguard
Which reminds me, is there an ongoing Star Trek comic still?

Nope. The last publisher to have it was Wildstorm Productions, shortly after their buyout by DC. They published a smattering of minis and one-shots, but never any ongoing series. Should be noted, though, that their DS9 comics took into account the events and canon of the DS9 relaunch novels.

In any case, it was never officially said whether the license was expired, but one of the Wildstorm brass was quoted at a convention panel that WS had no further plans to produce Star Trek comics of any kind.

However, there was recently an announcement that Paramount was teaming with Tokyopop to produce a Trek manga anthology book at some point. YMMV.

--mac

[TFVanguard]

Originally posted by Mac417
Nope. The last publisher to have it was Wildstorm Productions, shortly after their buyout by DC. They published a smattering of minis and one-shots, but never any ongoing series.

Ah, I hadn't been following. The last Trek Comics I looked at was around the time of TUC, and those were DC I believe. Some pretty fun stuff... I really liked the expansion they did with M'Ress, along with their occaisional glimpses of TOS-era ship designs based on later ships.

However, there was recently an announcement that Paramount was teaming with Tokyopop to produce a Trek manga anthology book at some point. YMMV.

I read those... kinda strange, but fun. Pity that we're not seeing more continued comics,but I imagine the current state of the comics industry is somewhat dissuading people from that expensive license.

[REG]

Originally posted by TFVanguard

Then why the line drop when LUG was bought out? That's the main unanswered question that the whole issue really raises. If this has been explained, then so be it - I just haven't heard an explanation outside of office-gossip.

Let's recall.

July 2000: LUG was officially acquired by WotC.

August 2000: A surprise announcement at GenCon by Decipher that they have been granted the license to publish Star Trek RPG by Paramount. Almost everyone, including myself was caught off-guard, especially when 3e D&D was officially launched that date.

So between August and December, they have only five months before LUG's license expired and Decipher's license to take effect. Honestly, what high-quality Trek product could be published knowing that WotC can't support the line anymore?

Stop flaming until you have concrete proof.

[7 of 11]

....do we still need Decipher anymore? What happen to the great ideas of "Let's build netbooks together"? I miss that discussion, so let's get creative and brainstorm some good ideas on how to help Decipher get back on track or how to move on without them. I'm excited about the idea of some of the great netbooks being created like Space_Cadet's Enterprise Sourcebook. Wow check it out! Can anyone help?

7 of 11
A

[Mac417]

I was kicking around the idea of how one would go about doing series SBs for each of the shows. I was thinking a possible layout such as...

Ch. 1: Introduction
Ch. 2: Season 1
Ch. 3: Season 2
Ch. 4: Season 3
Ch. 5: Season 4
Ch. 6: Season 5
Ch. 7: Season 6
Ch. 8: Season 7
Ch. 9: Starships
Ch. 10: Technology
Ch. 11: Characters

Each season chapter would be a 1-2 paragraph synopsis of each episode with cross-refs to specific things in the existing books, and would show the progression of the storyline and key elements of Trek history that occurred during that episode (if any). After the last season chapter should be a brief couple of "where are they now?" pages.

Starships and technology are self-explanatory. I also think each book should have some form of Starfleet uniform guide, a little more detailed than the one in the SOM.

Obviously, the Characters chapter should give page-long writeups of the main cast, as well as how their stats progressed from the beginning of the series to the end. Then half-page writeups of the supporting cast (or they could stay full-page for major supporting cast).

As for what each should cover:
TOS: All three seasons and all six TOS movies (and maybe the animated show, if this is a netbook)
TNG: All seven seasons and all four TNG movies
DS9, VOY, ENT: All seasons of each show.

What do you think, sirs?

--mac

[D.S.McBride]

Originally posted by 7 of 11
....do we still need Decipher anymore? What happen to the great ideas of "Let's build netbooks together"? I miss that discussion, so let's get creative and brainstorm some good ideas on how to help Decipher get back on track or how to move on without them.

Do we need them? As the first few pages of this thread have pretty definitively indicated, the answer is No.

Re the construction of Netbooks, I'm on board for it - and, BTW Mac417, I think the outline for the SBs that you've posted is an excellent starting point - and would be more than willing to put in some work for TOS (my major) and TNG (my minor). We should probably start the PMs up and see about getting some material outlined and organized; as I stated, I'm more than willing to do TOS stuff out the yin-yang.

However, as Don has also pointed out, there are a number of legal issues to overcome before we start distributing this stuff to the winds. Actually, a quick note for the man himself: would it be better to organize/write/publish this material as quietly as possible, without alerting the Decipher/Paramount/Viacom crowd, or would we be advised to contact them directly and at least inform them of what we're planning to do, with all assurances that this is strictly fan-work and there will be no profit motive involved?

Additionally, what the hell's the status with Decipher itself? Has there been any movement from this particular glacier? Have they essentially done the Pontious thing and washed their hands of the whole mess?

Again: PM me and we can start the ball rolling on at least one front. As for actual publication status without landing ourselves in the black and white uniforms with the ball and chain attached to our ankles...we'll see what we can do.

[Dr. Jonas Bashir]

I'll have internet back at home in 5 days (and a phone line, too). As I said before, I'm willing to pick the old Trill (ICON system) Sourcebook project, and after its release add some CODA bits to update it.

Dan, please email me, so we can get this ball rolling, too.

[Space_Cadet]

Originally posted by Mac417
I was kicking around the idea of how one would go about doing series SBs for each of the shows. I was thinking a possible layout such as...

Ch. 1: Introduction
Ch. 2: Season 1
Ch. 3: Season 2
Ch. 4: Season 3
Ch. 5: Season 4
Ch. 6: Season 5
Ch. 7: Season 6
Ch. 8: Season 7
Ch. 9: Starships
Ch. 10: Technology
Ch. 11: Characters

Each season chapter would be a 1-2 paragraph synopsis of each episode with cross-refs to specific things in the existing books, and would show the progression of the storyline and key elements of Trek history that occurred during that episode (if any). After the last season chapter should be a brief couple of "where are they now?" pages.

Starships and technology are self-explanatory. I also think each book should have some form of Starfleet uniform guide, a little more detailed than the one in the SOM.

Obviously, the Characters chapter should give page-long writeups of the main cast, as well as how their stats progressed from the beginning of the series to the end. Then half-page writeups of the supporting cast (or they could stay full-page for major supporting cast).

As for what each should cover:
TOS: All three seasons and all six TOS movies (and maybe the animated show, if this is a netbook)
TNG: All seven seasons and all four TNG movies
DS9, VOY, ENT: All seasons of each show.

What do you think, sirs?

--mac

Mac, IMHO, i think doing a chapter on each episode per season would be just filler. A player can go to startrek.com and look up the synopsis of each episode. What i think might be important are stats for races, ships, equipment, etc , something that synopsis don't reveal and get the narrator and players on the right track.

Other than netbooks or fan made sourcebooks, I think more Coda-Trek related websites are needed or even better, a webring that links all the Coda Trek websites.

[D.S.McBride]

Originally posted by Space_Cadet
Mac, IMHO, i think doing a chapter on each episode per season would be just filler.

Gotta go with the Cadet on this one: as I indicated above, I think the given outline is a great start, but it's not the way I would prefer to tackle the final release. My inclination is much more to go - and here's the closet LUGist coming out - with the Last Unicorn TOS Core book's organizational style. As my primary interest is in TOS, I'm going to use it as a template for the following discussion.

Start off with a spare but reasonable overview (if you don't know what Trek's about by this point, and yer lookin' these things over, you've got some issues), start introducing player character species that weren't covered in previous publications (and annotating where already-covered BEMs can be found, if such is your desire), then get into the Coda game-mechanic specifics of each era: You cannot tell me that the training regimen for TOS Starfleet is the same that would be seen in TNG, let alone different spacefaring cultures.

This would be followed by a bit of TOS-specific Narration stuff, along with the wee beasties that might crop up in such a campaign. Technological elements would then be handled as necessary. Narrator controlled stuff, such as Organian-level beings, could also be discussed here. Finally, TOS's cast and selected guest stars - much in the way that FASA did it - could be showcased as a benchmark (and what a benchmark!) for the neophyte Crew to compare themselves with.

That's it for the off-the-top-of-me-head stuff, but hopefully this'll at least provide a starting point for the discussion. Again, I freely admit my direction is a pretty straightforward ripoff of LUG's; I don't see any reason to fix what ain't broke.