What happened to the Klingons?

[Phoenix]

Does anyone here have an idea on what happened to the Klingons between TOS and the first movie. I've heard three, non-cannon, concepts two plausible, one fully from the GONZO files.
First there's the FASA explanation, but that was proven to wrong in (forget episode's name) DS9 with Kor, Koloth, and Klang having ridges.
Next we have the, lets laugh, concept "Cptn. Kirk kicked the Klingon's collective Butts so many times their spines were relocated...
And lastly we have the concept from a novel (which I do not know the name to) where a group of Klingon geneticists go back in time, when Proto-Klingons were just starting to emerge and modified the geno-structure to make themselves warrior-like.
One other comcept I just thought of was minor cosmetic alterations, to make themselves look more humanish, but given the Klingon medical history (both cannon and non-) I doubt that...

Any other ideas or input?

Phoenix...

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon

[Sjohn]

Complex, horrible cross-time pan-dimensional Tribble allergy. That's why they had to send an armada to destroy the Tribble homeworld.

Basically, Koloth and company with ridges makes any "logical" explanation an exercise in either futility or deliberate silliness. Which is why that episode rocks: it screams "just get over it" in a very loud voice, and I think that's good advice.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by Sjohn:
Complex, horrible cross-time pan-dimensional Tribble allergy. That's why they had to send an armada to destroy the Tribble homeworld.

So is that a vote for the Kirk concept?

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon

[Ergi]

My theory is that they have messed with Q who has changed their outer appearance for some generations.

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God, I liked him better before he died.

[qerlin]

I was thinking it might have had something to do with not having the make-up budget...

Sometimes, you just have to ignore the inconsistencies. Our campaign essentially ignores Voyager and I only use some of the old show. (our explanation: TOS is actually a retro-looking vid show in the 24th C that exemplifies Kirk. The movies we hold canon.)

[J.Ramirez]

I've been involved in Klingon fandom for a decade now, and this is a question that has been highly debated.

The sad part is there is no clear answer, but a few theories.

One says there were two distinct races, one with ridges, one without. If you read the graphic novel "Debt of Honor", it says the ridged Klingons gained ascendancy in the Council after the loss of a battlecruiser in the V'ger incident.

A second theory says that the ridges are a product of growth. When a Klingon gets older, the ridges are more pronounced.

Which is right?

Simple -- whichever you prefer.


J.Ramirez
aka Capt. Konnor sutai-Makhleod
Imperial Klingon Expeditionary Forces




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"Now then, pendejo, let's see what kind of swordsman you've become." -- Juan Sanchez Villalobos Ramirez

[Owen E Oulton]

One thing which is clear from on-screen continuity is that there's only one Klingon species - the old smooth-heads are the new ridge-heads. As definitive proof, I cite Kang, Koloth and Kor. Further, it is pretty certain that the ridges were the original form - the Kahless clone has ridges, and his DNA is identical to that of the original Kahless, 1400 years earlier. This was ascertained by Dr. Crusher. If the original'd had a smooth head, there would either be surgical or DNA traces, neither of which was present to medical technology far in advance of the Klingon state of the art.

The show has acknowledged the change - TOS-style Klingons were seen in Trials and Tribble-ations, and the difference was explicitly commented on. The modern characters did not recognise Klingons from 100 years earlier. When queried, Worf acknowledged the difference in appearance, but indicated that Klingons do not discuss the matter with non-Klingons.

My personal feeling is that it's all tied in with the Hur'q invasion and the "death" of the Klingon gods 400 years after the death of Khaless.

[darkwing duck1]

When they did TMP, the makeup artist that did the Klingons was the SAME one who worked on TOS. His statement (which I consider definitive) was that the "movie" Klingon makeup was the ORIGINAL makeup he'd designed for TOS, but was not able to do due to the lack of budget. When he got the movie project, he finally had the budget to do it the way he'd always wanted to.

The "Trials and Tribbilations" lines are an "in joke" for the fans. By rights, there should have been no problems for Bashier and the others recognizing Klingons.

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Deo Vindice!

[Owen E Oulton]

Fred Philips has never gone on record with any such statement. It was Gene Roddenberry who always tried to maintain that myth. Roddenberry's quote was "Klingons always looked like that, 1960's TV's just couldn't show it."

Both Fred and the late John Colicos have always said that when Gene L. Coon wrote the original Klingon episode, Errand of Mercy, Klingons were designed as a non-prosthetic alternative to the then very expensive Romulans. Freddy was instructed to create the look using standard makeup, and he and John Colicos came up with the "space Mongol" look together during the makeup session. The earliest forebearer to the Klingon makeup is that of the mutant "soldiers" from Planet Earth, the second pilot for Genesis II.

[darkwing duck1]

Then there's an awful lot of misled sources out there, Owen, because I've heard that quote from Starlog to Cinefantastique to the Communicator. . .

Note: I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that if you're right, then an awful lot of people have been lied to.

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Deo Vindice!

[Hugh Casey]

Mr. Duck,
(you know, that's a really unique salutation!)

It's not "misled" per se, but just the simple fact that when a story gets repeated enough times it becomes the "truth".

Example...

"Everyone" knows the story of Flight 19 in the Burmuda Triangle... five experienced pilots, on a clear day, vanished into thin air, and the search plane vanished as well.

Except... it was four students and an instructor with faulty equipment, it was a stormy night with poor visibility, and the search plane was seen by witnesses to have exploded.

So why the untrue story going around?

Because the incorrect story was reported somewhere (due to sensationalism, sloppy research, or other factors), and others who report it use that report as their source without verifying it! Nothing sinister, just people being lazy.

Not a good excuse, but a good reason.

Hugh



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"Sell your soul to the Philadelphia Science Fiction Society... ASK ME HOW!"

[Miymaani]

I suggest ignoring the apparent discrepancy in Klingon appearance. Chalk it up to cheap makeup.

[SIR SIG]

One could put it down to a Genetic disease etc.. Which the explosion of Praxis just hastened. And over the course of years the mutation and breeding has spread to effect all members of the race.

The only spanner in the works is Kahless and his clone. Perhaps the Clerics just modified the DNA to include this genetic difference.

Thus all are happy!

Least I think so!

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'...The Borg have stopped at deck 10...'
'...Deflector Control, no vital systems...'

Not a vital system! What the heck do you think stops the ship going 'poof' every time it goes to warp?

- ST:First Contact; Lt Hawk

[Aedh Rua]

This is in reality another of those lovely Star Trek inconsistancies which defy any attempt at reasonable explanation.

However, if I had to explain it, then I would have to go with the Q theory. Look, existing Klingons changed appearance during their lifetimes. The Klingons won't talk about it, are, in fact, ashamed.

So, clearly they tried to conquer a bunch of Q, or some other similar omnipotent race, and were punished by being made to look like the hated humans. When Kirk and Spock met Kahless, they were meeting a version of Kahless built from their own minds, not the "real" Kahless of history.

Eventually, the Klingons secretly made amends to the race that had so "punished" them, and were given their ridges back.

The power to do this is indeed part of Star Trek canon, for example the Douwd, who wholly annihilates the Husnok race.

At least, that's my opinion.

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Slan agat!

[darkwing duck1]

Point! (and please, just call me DW, most people do).

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Deo Vindice!