Help with using Moria rules...

[Eriendir]

Hi everyone. I haven't been here in awhile but my chronicle is an all Dwarvish Chronicle in TA 2770. The bulk of the first 10-15 chapters is in Moria.

I need help using Moria's travel system. The rules say that "heroes will wish to travel more directly to specific locations". If they succeed at the Lore: Region (Moria) test, the narrator describes the route for the PCs before they begin travel.
How would I describe travel to them?
Any examples would be greatly appreciated.

I have a different idea from the book about the test results. My idea is that they won't know the TN for Travel and Peril tests, AND I will hide the test results from them after they roll. This way, the PCs won't know how they have done in a Peril test or if they are getting lost or not.

My most pressing issue is Travel difficulty. My PC navigator is a loremaster who will have Lore: Region (Moria) +2, Wits modifier +4, Misc modifier +1 for a total of 7. I can see how it would be difficult if he decides chart a course for an area in the Mines and go through 3 additional areas, (TN20). Wouldn't it just be easier to plan destinations to adjacent areas?

The books says, "If the character would like to try a different route (to avoid entering a particularly dangerous area, for example) he may. The Narrator simply adjusts the TN to reflect the more circuitous route and the player rolls again." I don't understand this. If PCs are in the 1st Deep and want to travel to the Silvertine Upperdeeps they would pass through the Redhorn Upperdeeps. If they decide to try bypassing the Redhorn Upperdeeps, what is the TN or modifiers for the more circuitous route? Does that mean that there is a series of smaller, less traveled tunnels they could use to bypass the Redhorn Upperdeeps?

The book says, "When actually following the route, the character who plotted it must make a Lore test for each area he passes through it." Does that mean if they decide to take a circuitous route that they don't have to make the area Lore tests?

I'm really confused.
For narrators who have journeyed in Khazad-dum, what is your experience? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Ineti]

I don't have my copy handy, but I'll see if I can offer some suggestions.

Originally posted by Eriendir
[B]If they succeed at the Lore: Region (Moria) test, the narrator describes the route for the PCs before they begin travel.
How would I describe travel to them?
Any examples would be greatly appreciated.

Just make it up. "You decide to avoid the more open corridor and slip down a side passage that's dark and choked with debris. It's a harder road, but hopefully safer."

I have a different idea from the book about the test results. My idea is that they won't know the TN for Travel and Peril tests, AND I will hide the test results from them after they roll. This way, the PCs won't know how they have done in a Peril test or if they are getting lost or not.

Sounds good to me. Keep the players in the dark, so to speak. When players don't know if they've succeeded or failed, it can help to heighten the tension.

Wouldn't it just be easier to plan destinations to adjacent areas?

Not necessarily. A group that wants to go 'off the beaten path' are subject to your whim. It may be TN 20 to take the route as listed in the book, but you could rule that the alternate path they want to take is harder, or easier.

I don't understand this. If PCs are in the 1st Deep and want to travel to the Silvertine Upperdeeps they would pass through the Redhorn Upperdeeps. If they decide to try bypassing the Redhorn Upperdeeps, what is the TN or modifiers for the more circuitous route?

See above.

Does that mean that there is a series of smaller, less traveled tunnels they could use to bypass the Redhorn Upperdeeps?

Sure, there could be. Remember that Moria is a huge place, and one of the smart things the writers did with the Moria set is to emphasize that one book or map can't hope to do justice to the setting. Feel free to fill in the blanks. Looking at the movie, and reading the book, there are lots of dark corners of Moria left unexplored. There could be all sorts of alternate paths connecting one area to another, that just aren't shown on the map. Fill that thing in with your and your players' imaginations.

The book says, "When actually following the route, the character who plotted it must make a Lore test for each area he passes through it." Does that mean if they decide to take a circuitous route that they don't have to make the area Lore tests?

If the group bypasses the areas listed on the map, I wouldn't make them roll the area Lore tests. However, I would create new TNs for the new areas they're going through. They may avoid the areas described in the book, but they'll be leaving themselves open to the new areas you throw at them.

Hope this helps.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Eriendir
My most pressing issue is Travel difficulty. My PC navigator is a loremaster who will have Lore: Region (Moria) +2, Wits modifier +4, Misc modifier +1 for a total of 7. I can see how it would be difficult if he decides chart a course for an area in the Mines and go through 3 additional areas, (TN20). Wouldn't it just be easier to plan destinations to adjacent areas?

I am not into LotR RPGing and haven't read anything that Decipher publishes on Moria, so you may want to take this with a grain of salt, but I'd say it all depends on the needs of the Narrator - or in that case, you.

That being said, AFAICT, with the size of Moria there is hardly anything like an adjacent area. If such a thing exists, it could be viewed more like of gaming shortcut than any 'really' adjacent area. In that way a complete route from start to destination could be much more a thing of finding the easiest route towards the destination, than a string of close-by locals.
That could mean that going from one area to another (compared to charting out the complete journey in one go) could open up a lot of different alternatives, which in turn could raise the difficulty, instead of decreasing it.

Look at it like a road trip thru 3 different states. What the loremaster does is look at a "map" and chart out a route along the major highways. Now if the same loremaster broke down the same journey into "segments", each leading from one state to the next, he would look at a lot more options for each part of the journey, i.e. suddenly he would take all the possible byways and minor roads into account. That is, instead of looking at the "big picture", you would suddenly run the risk of getting lost in the details, which wiould make the TN at least the same, if not higher.

But, as I said, the final TN always depends on the Narrator. If you want your characters to get from A to B without any major problems, then just do it. If, OTOH, you want to turn the journey into an adventure all of itself, just do that.
If you chose this approach to traveling it may be worthwhile to take a few minutes and talk this over with the Loremaster/Ranger/Whatever who acts as the groups guide. Make sure this player udnerstands that his skills may not make a difference at some point in the game, but make equally sure that (if you take this approach to travel) he/she gets ample opportunity to use those Lore skills for the groups benefits in other situations.

That is of course only my 0.02€ worht of thoughts.
Hope this makes at least some sense to you.

[Eriendir]

Thank you Ineti and Lancer!
The feedback definitely helps.

I will let PCs figure out by themselves that certain areas are more dangerous than others. My PC navigator will have some manuscripts that will help with his Lore tests:
-an explanation on the 7 Deeps of Dwarrowdelf with a brief, one sentence description of many of the Halls
-A crudely drawn map showing where Dwarrowdelf is in relation to the Mines (All it will show is the 7 Deeps stacked onto each other, a vague reference to Durin's Way and the Western Deeps, and a vague generalized blob section underneath of the Mines).
-A set of directions to an important place

They will be entering from the Dimril Gate on the East Side. With this info, they should be able to get an idea of where they are as a starting point. I will let them figure out the Western Deeps, and all the different areas of the Mines on their own.

Question...

My question is how would you describe to them that they are lost? Do you describe how their planned route will proceed and then, on a failed test result describe something completely different? Do you flat out tell them they are lost?

The rules say that if PCs get lost they can make a Lore test to find out where they are. If they don't have any specific references to the "Silvertine Lodes" and have not uncovered the name of the location they end up in, does the narrator clearly state, "OK, you were trying to get to the Silvertine Upperdeeps but got lost and now you are in the Silvertine Lodes"?

How has anyone else handled this?[QUOTE]

[dustin]

quote:
"My question is how would you describe to them that they are lost? Do you describe how their planned route will proceed and then, on a failed test result describe something completely different? Do you flat out tell them they are lost?"


When you describe their planned route, be a vague as possible but give them certain landmarks to look for ( i.e. a statue of a certain Dwarf king sitting upon a throne, or whatever you like) And when they enter a chamber or hall, describe their surroundings, but leave out the statue, or other landmark. This is great for making them roleplay. Don't use any kind of Lore test or anything, a sharp player should be able to notice that the landmark they've been looking for isn't there. If no one figures it out, they just get more and more lost. Don't let it go on forever, though. If they get "too" lost, let them accidentally stumble back onto the right path.

Just a suggestion, hope it helps

dustin