Decipher Trek: In The Beginning...

[Phantom]

Too much non-canon stuff ruins a game that has, as Star Trek does, a history that has taken years to lay down. It is one of the reasons why I HATE Starfleet Battles and Dispise that god awful Prime Directive! Vulcan Psionic Marines?!?!?!?! What the &%^#%$%^&^%%*& is that...HELLO, the Vulcans have been a peace loving race for centuries! They never had the ability to project their mental powers, and have strict rules governing there use. And don't tell me that "it's a differnt universe"...That makes all the worse...Its not Trek then is it?

And don't even get me started on the Lyrans, Hydrans and the worst of all the Kzinti???? (sp). I have heard the Man-Kzinti wars series is a good one, but it has no business in Trek.

Whoa, Rant mode off.

Now, I realize the universe is a VERY big place, and there should be a few new races pop up now and again. Case in point, the Taurhai, a great antaganist for the Romulans I also like the other minor races listed in Way of D'era...However, you are not going to see any of them wearing a Romulan uniform anytime soon.

Sure, add a few, very minor, new races as background. Don't tell me with all the major races in Trek you think we need more. If they make all the canon races that LUG has used in their Trek available in one volume, that Star Trek game would have more races then any other RPG out there. Bar none, that I can think of.

[Don Mappin]

Wow, Phantom -- pretty easy to push your buttons, judging by the threads you post in.

You might want to think about switching to decaf!


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Don
trekrpg@trekrpg.net

[Phantom]

Don't drink coffee...Tea, but they say there is more caffine in tea than coffee so you could be right.

I don't have too many problems with the trek universe, or what most companies dream up, as a whole. However, I do feel very strongly about some of the things I have seen come out with the trek name stamped on it, just to push up sales figures. Would anyone have bought SFB if it didn't have a Constitution-class on the cover,IMHO....NO!

I just want Decipher to put out the best game they can, I think Roddenberry's (sp) dream deserves that.

[Paul]

...coin can be heard dropping into slot...

I agree that there should, ideally, only be ONE Core Book, with the system rules laid out clearly for all eras to follow. The Core Book should contain all Character Generation rules and guidelines (for all eras), Combat rules, Ship Combat rules, racial notes, skills, stats, some enemies, various ships, some basic era notes, etc...

After that, a sourcebook for each specific era, detailing the era, and containing era-specific information for character generation (including races), ships, etc...

Next, various sourcebooks for races, ships, MAPS!!!, planets/systems, etc...

Then, Adventures & modules - generic enough that they can be used for any era (after all, why not have adventures that can be used for both TNG and TOS? - less work for the designers, overall, better chance of improving sales, IMO).

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How do I set a Laser Printer to stun?

[This message has been edited by Paul (edited 03-25-2001).]

[Dave]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dan Stack:
I may be in something of a minority in liking the way LUG had three sets of Core Rules. There was something nice in showing up for a game with just one book - as wonderful as the supplmeents were, you really could play the game with just one book.
</font>

Don't get me wrong, I liked LUG's idea of one core book for each era. When I read the RPGnet interview with Ross Isaacs back in '99, I was so stoked when he said that "each era deserves its own book"... and as a TOS fan (since I was a fetus), it was darn cool to buy one book. In the book was the whole game, and it was all TOS. Ahh yeah...Exactly what I had been waiting for.

But perhaps this served the TOS fans more than anyone else- I dont know. The chances of that kind of thing happening again are slim I bet, but I'm glad somebody did it.

[Gamethyme]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
Don't drink coffee...Tea, but they say there is more caffine in tea than coffee so you could be right. </font>

Depends on the specific tea / coffee brand / blend / flavor. Tea -does- tend to hit the system more quickly than coffee does, however.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I just want Decipher to put out the best game they can, I think Roddenberry's (sp) dream deserves that.

</font>

Interesting your violent reaction to the Kzin in Trek, then. It's unfortunate that the animated series isn't considered Canon -- I got to meet Roddenberry once. When asked about the Animated Series, -HE- considered it Canon.

But that's another argument for another time and place. And not an argument I'm interested in getting involved with.

Gamethyme

[Phantom]

Gamethyme, I do admit that I am on the fence about the animated series being canon...It has been many eons since I have seen an ep. So, if I have made them mistake of assuming the Kzin are non-canon (ie. never been seen in Trek), then I must say sorry for my lack of knowledge. I did like the animated series when I was younger, but can't remember anything about it.

Though, my general opinion of SFB and Prime Directive will never change.

[Fortunae]

I found myself as the Narrator, recommending to my new players when suggesting what book they *had* to have, the DS9 book only. It had all of it's own goodness, and conveniently the character generation stuff from the TNG era book in the back.

Considering then this question of what format would be optimal, I think perhaps this would be good:
One Core Narrators Book. The "mechanics of play" were pretty standard all the way through, so remove the Character generation system and add in the "support" material from the other books to lengthy chapters on setting stories in specific eras and so on.
One Players Book for each "Setting". In here you can include more races since you have more space, or make them smaller and therefore less expensive. You can really focus on the flavor and information that a player playing in that era could use. Obviously to run the game you need both books if you are the narrator, but the players aren't getting a bunch of stuff you may not want them to even have access to. I know that even with the mechanics included, I still had to walk them all through the mechanics of play.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've always felt that if you are going to "run" the game, you are going to end up "needing" to spend more money than the players. Maybe this is because I cut my teeth back in the earliest days of TSR's D&D and AD&D, or maybe not. ::shrugs::

I think that beyond the CORE GM book and Setting Players book, the general production style of the LUG era was great and needs little modification for my own uses. I liked that the "Great Powers" were each getting their own box set for example, and some ways they (the Rom box set anyway) were more like the format I am suggesting for general usage.

Example: I buy Core Book, I decide I want to set my game in the movie era. My players all buy Movie Era Player's Book. They have detailed info on making "real" movie era characters, with background data that fits that specific period. We buy other movie era products and have fun. We decide later to move to TNG era. They buy maybe one, maybe each one, TNG era player's book. Since these books are slimmer, they hopefully cost less; I don't have to buy a new Core book, so I can go and buy a bunch of TNG era support books so we can get right on; better still, I can even run an adventure where they go back with thier new crew and risk breaking the Temporal Prime Directive with an encounter with thier retired Movie era vessel.

Maybe that isn't "best", but I think it would be good for me. Peace.

P.S. Don't look for any Federation Space Maps anytime soon. I corresponded with LUG and was perhaps a bit testy about a lack of a map, citing that FASA had has a map. Mr. Moore nicely explained to me that Paramount had no "set map" for the current era and was extremely reluctant about letting anyone else make a "canon map" so their writers weren't confined by internal consistancy. If they need you to take 3 days to go from DS9 to earth, they do it. A map makes that rather difficult to explain, and so I personally (my feeling, not Moore's) that basically episode writers are lazy gits. A "real" example of this can be found in little tidbits like:
How could the Klingons invade Cardassian space? Klingon Empire primarily Beta Quadrent, Cardassian Union farside of Fed Alpha Quadrent. Did they fly through Fed space to get there? Romulan space? I guess they just stretched the Empire further along the Fed border through where the Tholians and Sheliak *used* to be so the rumble could be on.
Or, Cestus III suddenly on the farside of the Fed from DS9 according to StarTrek.com, yet only 2 months to get there? Yet Cestus III is on the Gorn border, and the Gorn space nearly borders the Cardiassian Union, and the farside of the Fed from that border would be Beta Quadrent...is there another Wormhole no one is telling me about?

So anyway, don't expect a map until they move all current Trek production to a new timeperiod where the writers won't be incovienced; and if you get a map don't expect it to really make alot of sense because the writers didn't take the time to worry about that stuff.

[ImperialOne]

A major headline at the Decipher website today with the following story... anybody in Pasedena this weekend?

Charles

.............................................


Decipher IS Star Trek™!

This weekend, Decipher presents Star Trek at booth # B14 and B15 at the Grand Slam in Pasadena, California. This convention is generally regarded as one of the ultimate Star Trek fan shows of the year, and is always a star-studded spectacular event. What will make this year's show really special, however, is the fact that all of Decipher's Star Trek offerings (some of which are less than a month old) will be together for the first time!

Decipherian Kyle Heuer and Star Trek Ambassadors Chad Williams and Todd Hitchcock will be on hand to demo the Star Trek CCG and Tribbles CCG. You'll get to meet the editor of the Star Trek Communicator magazine, Larry Nemecek. Sariah O'Brien, senior staff member for the Official Star Trek Fan Club, will be at the booth with free copies of the Communicator and ready to answer all your questions about Fan Club membership. Also on hand will be the design team from DigitalDeck, headed up by Erik Scheelke, who made the Online Star Trek CCG the phenomenal (virtual) reality that it is - You'll get to play the digital version of your favorite CCG right at the Decipher booth. Finally, come meet the guys from our newest division -- the RPG group led by Christian Moore, creators of the Star Trek Roleplaying Game -- who were formerly with Last Unicorn Games. They will be coming from Decipher's newest west coast office and will be eager to fill you in on the future plans for the Star Trek RPG.

With all of this under one umbrella, Decipher truly is Star Trek!

Pasadena Grand Slam
The Pasadena Center, 300 E. Green St., Pasadena CA
March 30, 31, and April 1st
11:00 AM - 6:00 PM daily
Decipher Booth # B14, B15




Sean Smallman
seans@decipher.com
March 28, 2001

[Gamethyme]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
Gamethyme, I do admit that I am on the fence about the animated series being canon...It has been many eons since I have seen an ep. So, if I have made them mistake of assuming the Kzin are non-canon (ie. never been seen in Trek), then I must say sorry for my lack of knowledge. I did like the animated series when I was younger, but can't remember anything about it.

Though, my general opinion of SFB and Prime Directive will never change.</font>

The Kzin showed up in one episode of the animated series. According to Paramount, however the animated series is non-canon. Against Roddenberry's wishes.

SFB and Prime Directive were (and are) non-canon. Thank God. I'm not sure I could have handled that @#$% history in "Federation and Empire" as being canon.

Gamethyme

[Phantom]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">SFB and Prime Directive were (and are) non-canon. Thank God. I'm not sure I could have handled that @#$% history in "Federation and Empire" as being canon.

Gamethyme

Amen, brother!

[/B]</font>

[Captain Blake]

Re: the Kzin.

I think the reason that Paramount non-canonized TAS was the Kzin.

If they used the Kzin in a real series, they'd have had to pay royalties to Niven for using them.

[Dan Stack]

Continuing on my lone crusade regarding the core books...

I was very impressed by the way each LUG core book captured the spirit of the series it was trying to emulate - all the little examples sprinkled thoughout the history sections, the character generation sections, etc. - all full of little ideas to mine for narrators and players. For example, the history of the Federation, seen through the eyes of the DS9, TOS, and TNG games were all the same, yet all slightly different. My fear is a generic core book would feel very, well, generic. If each core book just had one chapter of character generation rules different from the others, then yes, I would rather see a generic core book. But I really enjoyed the little twists and turns LUG threw into the core books.

Out of curiosity, am I the only one who wound up liking the LUG method? I wasn't too crazy about it originally, but when I compare the TNG, TOS, and DS9 games, I've come to appreciate it.



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[Captain Preas]

I never liked LUG's presentation method for the core books. Spending an extra $15 or so for core mechanics that I already own, just so I can get stats for the original Enterprise and templates for TOS creation irked me. Same with the DS9 book.

I'm all for one core book containing the systems, and basic character generation, with additonal "Series Books" for each show, and possibly the movie era.

[Diamond]

Dan,

I really liked the LUG way of having separate core books. I didn't think that I would. Like many here, I thought I would end up paying more $ uselessly.

BUT

LUG did an AMAZING job of having each core book have the look and feel, the MOOD, the THEME of each core book reflect each series. Like you pointed out Dan, the flavor text, the layout, even the game mechanics were all crafted towards the series in question.

I like the way they did it. Please do it again!