Enterprise Movie?

[TookyG]

When Berman mentioned Trek XI being a prequel he said that it would have the Enterprise cast.

[REG]

Originally posted by TookyG

I liked Nemesis. It had its problems but every Trek movie to date has.

Not The Wrath of Khan. Not The Undiscovered Country.

[AngryTree]

Nick Meyer wrote (or helped write) three Star Trek movies: Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home, and The Undiscovered Country. All three are widely considered to be the best Star Trek movies in the series.

There have been seven other Star Trek movies, written by various people, the quality of which, with the exception of First Contact, range from marginal to utter crap.

I don't think it's a coincidence. Bring back Nick Meyer!

[Uruz]

Enterprise movie?

That might be the first Trek movie I don't go to see.

[Scottomir]

Undiscovered Country even has a chapter devoted to it in the recent cultural-history trade book Gilligan Unbound (an even larger chapter is devoted to The X-Files). The author makes the interesting argument that TOS (both as the series as this last film) depicted the cold war as a struggle of vibrant, expansive democracy against theocracy and aristocracy (in a restricted use of the term). Most interesting is the possibility that the original ST VI script called for Kirk to die as he rescued the president, thereby giving him a Patton-like ending: a warrior should not outlive the war he came to represent.

What strikes me most about ST II, IV, and VI is how they all generally work as stand-alone movies. Now, there are a few details that require prior knowledge (e.g., why they have a Klingon warship at the start of IV)...but if you overlook those details, you have a nice self-contained story. The recent four ST movies have been muddled: they are self-contained to the extent that they are pointless and do not really build up their universe in meaningful ways, but they are still largely referential to outside elements (the Borg, the Romulans, etc.).

I used to think that First Contact was the one "good" TNG movie...but when I watched it again on cable recently, I realized just how weak it is. I mean, it is the second movie that largely references Moby Dick, and ST II did it so much more meaningfully and eloquently. As I reflect on the recent ST films, only Generations strikes me as having attempted anything original. Sure, it was a botched result...but it did try for something more complicated and interesting.

I fear we have reached the point of that old Simpsons episode depicting a commercial for STAR TREK XIV: SO VERY TIRED.

[D.S.McBride]

Very eloquently stated, Scottomir! I don't know if I would assign James Kirk a "Patton"-like role in the Trek universe; the guy struck me as more of a missionary so convinced as to the rightness of his cause that it lent him an aura of near-invulnerability (or Indomitable +2, by LUG's TOS Core book rules ). The whole situation with the subliminated rage over David's death, I think, was presented as more of an anomaly in Kirk's character - the one major flaw in an otherwise superb human instrument that nearly causes his (and many others') destruction.

I agree entirely about Generations: flawed as that effort was, Ron Moore et al made a valiant effort at at least trying something different; the major problem was that the writers were working off a laundry list of story requirements ("must have Klingons" and so on) that straitjacketed their narrative possibilites. I watched it again quite recently and was shaking my head over how well that piece comes together; David Carson, whatever his familiarity with Trek as a whole, did a pretty damn good job with that one.

First Contact remains the "best" by virtue of the fact that it's actually got some half-decent action in it, and that one irreplaceable scene where Worf and Jean-Luc nearly get down to it, followed by Lilly's tearing Jean-Luc a (figurative) new hole. I still get goosebumps when I watch Patrick Stewart snarl that last line: "And I will make them pay for what they've done!" Brought into great relief that whole idea about humanity having hypnotized itself into believeing it's become something "better" than it once was.

Insurrection (argh) and Nemesis (argh cubed)...don't get me started, man.

[TookyG]

Originally posted by REG
Not The Wrath of Khan. Not The Undiscovered Country.

Both are good movies but you can sit down and poke holes in them.

[REG]

Perhaps, but the holes are not that blatantly obvious.

With NEMESIS, they could have done more with the Romulans without the additions of the Reman, which just popped out of nowhere (well, I have some idea where but that's X-rated).

[strict31]

Nemesis should have been a Mirror Universe flick. Nuff said on that score.

Undiscovered Country did have holes and weaknesses, but they only became apparent to me when looking back on the movie. When I first saw it, and for several years afterward, I thought it was great. And it remains great, just not without its little problems.

About Generations: I guess I just don't see it. I agree with Scottomir's reflections and comments for the most part though. But I feel the same way about First Contact that I do about Undiscovered Country: in hindsight, it may have had its flaws, but it remains one of the best Trek flicks to date. Yes, it channeled "Aliens" rather heavily there, but it worked. And like D.S. McBride mentions, it did have some truly great lines. That whole sequence with Picard and Lily in his ready room is classic to me. "The line must be drawn HERE! This far, NO further!" Shows that Patrick Stewart should be given more roles and more lines in big screen flicks. When he turns on the Stewart-power, he commands the scene (unfortunate that we haven't seen him shine so in X-Men, but at least he's in-character as the Prof....).

Generations, I think, would have come off better and would have meant more in light of both Kirk's death and Picard's personal loss and subsequent character growth if Earth had been the planet in jeopardy. In other words, this is what they do, this is what they risk and lose, and this is why they keep doing it.



Strictly Speaking

[Tas II]

Generations, I think, would have come off better and would have meant more in light of both Kirk's death and Picard's personal loss and subsequent character growth if Earth had been the planet in jeopardy. In other words, this is what they do, this is what they risk and lose, and this is why they keep doing it.

I have been saying the same thing to anyone who would listen (which was a pitifully small number! ) ever since I saw that film.

Personally, I think Nick Meyer would be a good choice for helming the next Trek film (be it ENT or whatever) for the reasons mentioned previously.

If it was up to the fans, I think that it should be a Romulan based film (but done MUCH better than the last offering!). Please, no more Klingon films! Personally, I think we have seen enough Klingon based episodes and films. Klingons can be in the film as background or minor elements, but can we work on some other race now? Pleeeeeeease?

( I would like to see The Gorn or The Tholians involved, as I think the CGI could handle them nowadays. That will be unlikely, as they are not going to appeal to the non-trekker film goers I think)

Anyway, back to the thread. Is ENT sufficiently popular to merit a film? I am not sure on this. Sure, it is getting better, but.....is it enough? The main problem is that the ENT crew might not carry it off on the big screen. I think that was the problem with the TNG bunch. They did not have enough ooomph to work on the big screen (with the exception of Patrick Stewart and possibly one or two others in moments). The story would need to be self contained and provide the characters with some damned good lines. And the actors involved will need to perform out of their skins if the TV show is anything to go by. I know that actors can only work with what they are given, script-wise, but few of them actually appeal to me, personally.

Just my tuppence worth

Cheers

Tas

[C5]

I must be one of the few individual on this planet who doesn't find TWOK so great (and no, not because Khan recognizes Chekov), but I agree the TOS movies had a better sense of unity between them than the TNG ones, who only share some common background (Data's chip, Geordi's eyes, the ENT-E...).

One thing I noticed once thinking about the Trek movies was that something truly original would be for the villain not to die at the end. Except in TMP and TVH (where there's hardly a villain anyway, since the probe is not really agressive), the villain always get somehow exterminated by the Captain himself or by his creation. Having him being reasoned or somehow subdued would be a nice change and more Trek-ish IMHO.

Apart from that, I'm not against the idea of an ENT movie. At the very least, ENT being less known than the other series, it could draw viewers by the simple fact that people would wonder what this "new" movie is.

[TookyG]

Originally posted by REG
Perhaps, but the holes are not that blatantly obvious.

With NEMESIS, they could have done more with the Romulans without the additions of the Reman, which just popped out of nowhere (well, I have some idea where but that's X-rated).

I didn't see any problems with the Remans. I was glad they introduced them because I always wondered what the deal with Remus was. It's a nice bit of Trek-info.

Besides, just another Romulan threat wouldn't have been fresh. People would probably complain that it was too much like the TV show.

[Rayaru]

I liked Nemesis.... I didn't think it was the greatest movie ever, but I thought it was good. I mean, it was better than STV anyway

[REG]

Sorry, but NEMESIS belong in that same trash bin as THE FINAL FRONTIER. You can try stack one over the other, but they're still in the same pile of junk.

Personally, Remus should have been a Romulan colony planet as well, no indigenous sentient.

As for the "Mirror Universe" idea, that would have worked, making Patrick Stewart perform dual roles. They should have played off from the "Reunification" episode.

[strict31]

Originally posted by REG
Sorry, but NEMESIS belong in that same trash bin as THE FINAL FRONTIER. You can try stack one over the other, but they're still in the same pile of junk.

Personally, Remus should have been a Romulan colony planet as well, no indigenous sentient.

As for the "Mirror Universe" idea, that would have worked, making Patrick Stewart perform dual roles. They should have played off from the "Reunification" episode.

Which episode was that, REG?


Strictly Speaking