Ronald Reagen has died at age 93.

[AslanC]

Originally posted by REG
Kaiddan.

AslanC.

Let it go.

Swallow your prides.

Just honor the good things about him.

If you can't think of anything good, then honor him for having lived a full life.

As i said above, I have no problem at all with Kaiddan, not one single issue.

I do have problems with Grimace's post making it seem like I was in here causing trouble. Nothing to do with pride either.

But I will let it go.

[Evan van Eyk]

Sorry that I obviously started an argument, which was definitely not intended. I just was curious what you felt was so special about Mr. Reagen as President, thinking that we do not learn much about US domestic affairs over here ( I assume it is the same the other side over the pond ), so I was just thinking I would be missing something.

But as Aslan said no matter if you liked the policy or not, he was struck by a terrible disease, which I as well have hands on experience with, due to my time in hospital ( thank god none of my relatives has this illness ).

[strict31]

Personally, I did not care for the man. I do not think he was an angel. I do not think he was a great president. My personal feelings are my own and I won't explain them here. But Ronald Reagan was a man who stood and delivered. There may be many reasons why men take public office, but one thing that cannot be taken from him is that he served his country as commander-in-chief. That is worthy of respect from American citizens. I can't speak for those who live outside this country, of course. Whether he was good or bad, that is a question for history and for men to decide in their own minds. Not here.

If you villify him, or if you love him, that makes no difference to respecting his position.

He suffered a terrible condition. I have seen what it does to people. Saw what it did to my grandmother. So, I know what his family is going through and I sympathize. Like or dislike does not enter the equation.

He led a country. Nuff said.



Strictly Speaking

[REG]

Glad I stumbled upon this web article on StarTrek.com web site. It's about our former President's visit to Paramount and the Star Trek: The Next Generation soundstage.

Oh, and his comment about Klingon, though I'm a bit slighted but I can't help but chuckle. He'd make a fine Klingon Ambassador.

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...icle/5757.html

[First of Two]

Originally posted by AslanC
So you are a member of a sacred order who MUST answer all questions put to them?

I am. We're called "Librarians."

However, in the interests of a peaceful board (even if nobody ever comments on the UGSLP anymore ) , I will only say that if anybody wishes to know MY opinion on the subject, they can email rorahl@hotmail.com .

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by REG

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...icle/5757.html

LOL!!!!! That made my day, thanks.

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by AslanC
As i said above, I have no problem at all with Kaiddan, not one single issue.

I do have problems with Grimace's post making it seem like I was in here causing trouble. Nothing to do with pride either.

But I will let it go.

Reagan is one of my heroes, and I certainly didn't take offense in Aslan's caution. I think he misinterpreted the situation, but he certainly had no malice in his statement.

Leaving things be, both here and in private, is certainly the way to go.

[calguard66]

Originally posted by Evan van Eyk
So what was so special about him? This is not intended as a political discussion but a curious question what is it what you like about Mr. Reagen as President. I have to admit I do not know much, and what I do know I regard not as very good, but since the sources are maybe biased, I would be really interested to hear why you think he was a good President. Thanks

This is a question that I deem worth answering, because it is true that someone from another country would not be as familiar with the man as a US citizen who remembers the Reagan era.

There are many things that I personally admired about his politics and policies, but from seeing Evan's previous posts on various topics I expect he would not be impressed.

However, there are several things about Ronald Reagan the man that are worthy of admiration no matter where on the polictical spectrum you stand.

Ronald Reagan was widely known to speak his mind and to stand firm on his beliefs. You would find no waffling or backing down in him. He did not change his position to please people or to gain votes, unlike some more recent Presidents. When he called the USSR the "evil empire" is was because he meant it.

Despite his firm beliefs, he was also widely knows as an affable, friendly man who had polical opponents but no personal enemies. He and Speaker of the House O'Neal (the top Democrat in office at the time and therefore Reagan's #1 political opponent) were known to sit over drinks and tell Irish jokes. Everyone liked him, even those most bitterly opposed to his political policies.

He was humble in his power. Several days after being shot aids found him kneeling on the floor wiping up water he had spilled, for fear his nurse would get in trouble. He often answered letters in his own hand, rather than dictating to a secretary or asking a subordinate to answer them.

He was firm in this faith. No matter your stand on religion you have to admire a man who holds his convictions honestly and unflinchingly. His diary says that after being shot he first prayed for the soul of his would-be assassin before praying for himself.

He held the true love, affection and admiration of an amazing woman for decades, and there has to be something good about a man who can do that.

Lastly, one of the most important ways to lead is by example. No matter what retoric you spout, if you don't live as you preach you are nothing.

Now, my personal reasons include that he rebuilt the American military from the paper tiger of the 1970's into the formidable force it is today, and began the new era of respect for military service. It is my personal opinion that he was nearly single-handedly responsible for the fall of the old USSR, with signifigant help from Lady Thacher. As she said in her eulogy, others were content to hold the Soviets at bay, he was determined to bring them down... and he did. No mater where you stand on his views, he is a man who rose from litterally nothing to reshape the polictical landscape of a world... and that has to be respected.

[Sarge]

Even as a long-time admirer of Reagan, I was surprised at how compelling the funeral services were. Kudos to PMs Thatcher and Mulroney; both spoke eloquently and movingly. I never would have expected GHWB to get so choked up while he was speaking. And the images of Nancy, so tiny and frail, clutching the folded flag and touching the casket, just went straight to my heart.

[Publius]

I've held my peace for a while now, but this is a political thread. I agree that Space Cadet's "Weekend at Ronnies" thread was over the top, and it was shut down very quickly (after numerous personal attacks I noticed) for being a political thread. Fine. Yet this extended admiration society for Ronald Wilson Reagan is nothing more than a commercial for his programs and policies. Programs and policies which just happen to very very similar in many respects to those of the present administration.

The man passed, you expressed yourself about it and that is great. I am not saying anything about the man personally here (I have gone out of my way not to make comments about him here in fact), and I am NOT saying that it is bad form to make note of his passing here and express condolences over his death. But this thread has gone well past that point, extolling the virtues of his policies and programs. A lot of people are telling others to separate the man from his politics. Great, lets just ALL do that shall we?

[calguard66]

Don't forget that it is customary, at least in the US, for the dead to be spoken of well by the living, even by those who were their detractors in life.

You might consider this more of a history lesson, rather than an admiration society. If the factual account of the man's life and term in office paint an admirable picture, that is hardly the fault of those providing the account.

Lastly, as a correction of a historical fallacy, if you look carefully you will see that the policies of the current occupant of the Oval Office are only superficially similar to Reagan. In the details they are quite different.

[strict31]

Originally posted by calguard66
Don't forget that it is customary, at least in the US, for the dead to be spoken of well by the living, even by those who were their detractors in life.

You might consider this more of a history lesson, rather than an admiration society. If the factual account of the man's life and term in office paint an admirable picture, that is hardly the fault of those providing the account.

Lastly, as a correction of a historical fallacy, if you look carefully you will see that the policies of the current occupant of the Oval Office are only superficially similar to Reagan. In the details they are quite different.

Okay. But in a thread honoring a dead president, what does that have to do with anything? Mourn the dead and let pass anything else.


Strictly Speaking

[calguard66]

Originally posted by strict31
Okay. But in a thread honoring a dead president, what does that have to do with anything? Mourn the dead and let pass anything else.


Strictly Speaking

Because a non-American asked what the big deal was. To me that seemed a reasonable question worthy of an answer.

You'll note that I was careful to separate my personal admiration from my political admiration. I added the political comments to further explain my personal feelings.

[Publius]

Originally posted by calguard66
Don't forget that it is customary, at least in the US, for the dead to be spoken of well by the living, even by those who were their detractors in life.

So? If the rules of this board say that we should not have political threads, then keep politics out of it. You want to say you thought he was all-wonderful best-thing-since-sliced-bread that's fine. All I am saying is leave it at that, political comments should be avoided. This is not the place for a discussion of the political merits of his presidency masked as praise for a man who has passed away.

Originally posted by calguard66
You might consider this more of a history lesson, rather than an admiration society. If the factual account of the man's life and term in office paint an admirable picture, that is hardly the fault of those providing the account.

I don't consider those points factual, they are political viewpoints open to political (dare I say partisan) perspectives. These posts are full of statements that are political in nature. Discussions of his leadership style and political accomplishments are inherently political statements when he is presented as the end-all-be-all of presidents. My own assessment of the man as president is political, which is why I have not shared it. But most of the 'tributes' to his qualities which have been bandied about here are political as well. All I am saying is that neither are appropriate for this space.

Originally posted by calguard66
Lastly, as a correction of a historical fallacy, if you look carefully you will see that the policies of the current occupant of the Oval Office are only superficially similar to Reagan. In the details they are quite different. [/B]

Again, I disagree. To explain why and how would be a political thread so I probably should not have said as much in the first place (mea culpa, I was wrong in bringing it up and I admit it; please note however that I did not place a normative assessment on that comment). To say that this comment is a "Historical fallacy" however presumes my position was wrong and suggests I don't know what I am talking about. At the same time it slyly is presenting your opinion as fact. I consider that insulting in both tone and content because (a) I do happen to know what I am talking about and (b) I did not even say they were identical merely "very very similar in many respects" which can be taken in a variety of ways (and I have already admitted was probably wrong on my part to say anyway). Bottom line: Tell you what, if you want to believe the above I think it is peachy-keen, I will think differently and we will let which perspective constitutes a "historical fallacy" be determined elsewhere (i.e. in a place which is more appropriate for such a discussion) rather than suggesting that one another's views are bogus in a public forum.

Recall my central point however: If you want to say that you thought he was great, that is fine by me. If you say you thought of him highly and miss him, fine too. But there have been several posts which discuss his political life in glowing terms. In the interests of keeping away from political topics, I have remained silent to this point. But as another thread, perhaps not so cunningly worded but no less political, was closed down I decided to come out and simply say that this thread has been spouting off just as much. Was that thread crass? I'll let the reader determine that rather than press my opinions on you. Should it have been shut down? Yes, as I think any thread with an inherently political content should.

[REG]

Originally posted by Evan van Eyk

So what was so special about him? This is not intended as a political discussion but a curious question what is it what you like about Mr. Reagen as President. I have to admit I do not know much, and what I do know I regard not as very good, but since the sources are maybe biased, I would be really interested to hear why you think he was a good President. Thanks

Sorry. I honestly cannot answer your question without becoming the source of a political debate. That you'll have to research yourself.

But I guess for many Germans back in the 80's and 90's, they remembered his public message to then-Soviet President Gorbachev he gave at what was the site of the Berlin Wall:

"Mr. Gorbachev, Open these gates! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down these walls!"