Pre-TOS or Cage era?

[Owen E Oulton]

Just ditch the table - it was a patch since the FASA game didn't already have rules covering the situation.

For ICON, it's a simple Opposed roll against her Charm (Seduction) skill. Racial modifiers are already accounted for with the Presence attribute and Willpower edge, modified by either Strong Will or Weak Will traits.

I assume CODA has similar mechanics, being designed by the same people.

[LtCdr Kagan]

During The Cage, the landing parties wore a white webbed equipment belt underneath the landing party jacket. On this belt, there were a hand laser and a communicator. I'm sure that other equipment could be placed here if necessary.

Question came up before a session with a player who has an Andorian PC. Since it is 2250 and many cultures are still quite diverse within Starfleet, would it have been against the regulations for an Andorian to carry a chaka underneath the landing party jacket on his equipment belt?

Just wondering...remember our timeframe is before Kirk's TOS. However, I would also like to know how gamemasters deal with this request in the later eras.

[Tobian]

My initial thoughts on this would be an almost certain NO - Starfleet in this era is FAR more by the book than it is in the later TNG era, where they are becomeing more tollerant of alternate cultures, such as allowing bajorans to keep their earrings or allowing Worf to wear his Miss Klingon 2365 sash

As I've said with regards to other non standard issue. Even in the original series you had the standard - Tricorder (less standard as it was bulkier back then so less people wore one) and a hand phaser. Yes the Phaser is a weapon capable of being a WMD BUT it also does STUN - that is why it is important - because it allows you to stun your victims rather than kill them and cause an intergalactic incident. If someone is set upon and they slashed into an oponent with a Chacka and cleaved them in half (I've seen it done ) - and that was the ambassadors nephew... etc The point is there are weapons capable of being much more destructive than a pocket hand phaser, but it doesn't really show good faith to carry round a battleth or a isomagnetic canon on your back does it!

Of course the flip side to that could be - "if the captain said yes" - There are a couple of scenarios where this may happen to be relevant - on a Borg ship it would prove useful, and on any craft / station / planet where the Federation is at out and out war with then under captains discretion any form of weaponry could be used!

Another good reason was because it was for ceremonial purposes - if they actually went to Andor or one of it's colonies, or were dealing with some sort of Andorian cultural representitive then it could be worn on the basis of a ceremonial grounds.

Also there is nothing to stop him OWNING one in his quarters and practicing in the ships Gym with it daily (with the exception of 'practice' by way of constant dueling to the death LOL), in much the same way Worf owns and uses his for that purpose, to keep fit and schooled in the ways of his people. Of coruse be wary of players just happening to have been going to the Gym when the ship was boarded There are only so many times you can use that as an excuse.

Especially with the case of the Chacka over the bat'leth, it is meant to be a ceremonial fighting blade, more than a warfare blade, where a Hrisal (basic big knife or sword) is more appropriate!

Of course it's also ultimatelly down to the Captain of the ship. if he happens to be either very open minded or maybe an Andorian fetishist or an actual Andorian, then he might permit it. Weather he permitted it's general use is another matter - and something I can imagine a Starfleet Doctor of any era giving the Officer in question a drilling down about (weather he outranked him or not! )

[Identity Crisis]

I'd agree that it should be down to the Captain. The sense of isolation - and hence independence - from Starfleet Command is very much a part of the flavour of this era.

Remember that one of the original inspirations for Trek was as a "Hornblower in space". In the Napoleonic era ship captains, being out of contact with the admiralty for months on end, had a lot of leeway in matters of uniform and equipment. Play that up and have NPC ships and officers do things differently...

Oh, and everyone should read some of the Hornblower (and also the Aubrey and Maturin) books for ideas. You won't reget it.

[pesterfield]

I don't see a problem and would hope doing it would encourage everyone else to carry a knife. Using a phaser to cut things is a waste of power.

Everyone should have a belt pouch with a hypo and vials containing antivenom, painkiller, and other basics.

For enemies consider some internal ones, just what Starfleet and the Federation is going to be is still being decided. Conflicting ideas and goals in the higher ups can cause either intentional or unintentional problems.

[Owen E Oulton]

"My initial thoughts on this would be an almost certain NO - Starfleet in this era is FAR more by the book than it is in the later TNG era, where they are becomeing more tollerant of alternate cultures, such as allowing bajorans to keep their earrings or allowing Worf to wear his Miss Klingon 2365 sash."

Oh, what about Scotty's kilt worn with his dress tunic, or Spock's IDIC? If you look at the Rec deck scene in STTMP, you'll see a wide array of obvious religious or cultural regalia worn with uniforms way back in 2270.

If carrying the blade is a religious or cultural requirement (like a Sikh kirpan) of a recognised group, it would be allowed under Starfleet regulations. Otherwise, it would require the captain's permission. This covers the situation with Ro Laren's earring as well, since Bajor wasn't a Federation member.

In my campaign, Sikhs may automatically wear a turban and carry a kirpan, Scots may wear a kilt and sporran and carry a sgian dubh with dress uniforms, male Jews may wear a yarmülke, Bajoran earrings have been approved since 2370, et cetera.

[Tobian]

Ok religious and cultural parephenalia are **NOT** weapons. A small knife is NOT a combat aid, it's a tool to eat your food with, which you could use in a snitch to attack your enemy but the intent is the same.

Scotty might have worn a Kilt as part of his Dress uniform but I am sorry Scottish people do *NOT* wear kilts, they were trousers like eveyrone else. The only time you see them wearing kilts is for civil occasions, weddings and if they are in the armed forces and are required too for dress purposes. It is simple no longer day wear anywhere except where tourists go. If your scotish people want to wear kilts, then they are some sort of cultural throwback to the 18th century, I suggest counseling it is a blatant cultural steryotype.

I'm not sure if I agree with your argument of the Rec Deck scene as allot of these people will have been off duty, so they can of course wear whatever they like.

Bottom line here is that it is entirelly up tot he Captain on what he will and will not allow, but technically, according to the regulations, you aren't supposed to wear cultural affectations while on duty, even if it is on religious grounds.. Bottom line is these people signed up at the door knowing this. This is in much the same way as you aren't allowed non regulation furniture and more than a handful of luxuries in your quarters, unless you are of sufficient rank to bend the captains ear enough

This has allot to do with both health safety and discipline. A Sikh Kirpan is a practicality for them, because they let their hair grow very long, hence it's a health and safety aid (I am remembering those instructional posters from school illustrating why you don't wear your hair down next to power tools! ) - but if their religion required them to carry a kalashnikov and a vicious curved blade (hey it's the 24th century, who's to say there aren't religions that don't !) then is the captain going to allow it? I think not!

There is also the issue of practicality and feasibility.. do they also wear it when they have their spacesuit on, do they also carry their knife, and is it on the inside or on the outside ? etc..

If you were a rastafarian hull engineer would they make you an extra large helmet to fit your dreadlocks and hat inside?

I'm not trying to belittle or disrespect anyone's cultural beliefs here, everyone has a right to their own beliefs, but we are talking about a quasi military organisation; certain sacrifices have to be made and some indulgences can't be allowed because people's lives could be at risk if they were.

There is also the whole issue of appearance. While a phaser is obviously a 'weapon' it's functions include stun (and that's default) - a sword's default setting is maim and kill.. If you are going on a diplomatic mission to a peaceful planet, and you had a crew member who's cultural bliefs required him to carry a vicious jagged knife won't this undermine the whole "We come in peace" message. Personally that's how I read it and that's how I run it. Cultural icons, such as unusual headware, sashes, badges and facial art only serve to demonstrate the federation's acceptance of alternate cultures, hence they are often allowed in dress situations, but dress uniform and working uniforms are different types of things!

[Owen E Oulton]

"A Sikh Kirpan is a practicality for them, because they let their hair grow very long, hence it's a health and safety aid (I am remembering those instructional posters from school illustrating why you don't wear your hair down next to power tools!"

You have absolutely no idea what a kirpan is, do you?

[LtCdr Kagan]

First of all, thanks to those who have responded on this pre-TOS question. Yes, I'm in a time frame that has little to no on-screen canon help on many issues. That's why I like it.

Identity Crisis said

...it should be down to the Captain...

This seems to be the overwhelming response for a number of reasons. One, pre-TOS is an era of cowboy diplomacy by ship captains, and probably more so than Kirk's day. Each captain and crew are generally, "the only ship in the sector." This means... Unless there are serious violations of Star Fleet and Federation laws and regulations, the captain does have the final word on his ship.

If it is up to the captain, then pesterfield's response that implies that each person should have the necessary survival equipment under his/her jacket is understandable. Hence a knife, whether a standard issue or even a personal one, would be a part of that equipment. However, as Tobian alluded there is a big difference between a Swiss Army knife and an Andorian chaka.

Tobian has said

Starfleet in this era is FAR more by the book than it is in the later TNG era

That too was my initial reaction because in The Cage the ship, under Pike, seems to run with much more strict discipline than Kirk employed after WNMHGB. This could be chalked up to Pike's leadership style, but I'm not certain that will fly. I believe that Tobian's initial reaction is valid.

If that is the case, then everyone is non-descrip when they visit a planet. Spock even in Kirk's era didn't wear his IDIC medallion on every landing party assignment. Everyone has standard equipment on the webbing belts underneath that jacket: laser, communicator, first aid kit, and a Starfleet survival knife.

Owen Oulton added

In my campaign, Sikhs may automatically wear a turban and carry a kirpan, Scots may wear a kilt and sporran and carry a sgian dubh with dress uniforms, male Jews may wear a yarmülke, Bajoran earrings have been approved since 2370, et cetera.

This was the reason that I asked the question initially. Remember, my pre-TOS Loknar-class ship is about two-thirds human and one-third Andorian. To tell a third of the crew that they couldn't express themselves culturally, I felt would be wrong. Hell, it is wrong in 2004.

Yet, where do I draw the line? Yes, Tobian, the "we come in peace" issue becomes a problem. However, I'm reminded that Kirk said that while a phaser-II was hanging from his hip. What about those cultures that expect a show of force/strength? What about Friday's Child where the Capellans are running around with klagots (forgot the real spelling, sorry) and short swords. Even the Klingon attempts to blend in as well.


SO HERE IS MY DECISION FOR MY GROUP...
The captain (NPC) has an Andorian first officer (PC). The first officer has dual codes of honor: Starfleet and Andorian. The captain must decide!

Rules of the landing party equipment...
a. Standard Starfleet-issue is the primary landing party equipment.
b. Cultural equipment or medallions may only be worn in the following situations: 1) dress uniforms, 2) expected battle situations, and 3) diplomatic contacts.

Reasons:

1) Dress uniforms should express not only Starfleet service through medals but also the cultural diversity of the Federation. (i.e. Scotty's kilt, Spock's IDIC)

2) Battle/War situations should allow each member to fight as he/she can without restrictions. It is a dangerous era of confrontations with Klingons, Kzinti, and God knows who else.

3) Diplomatic contacts? This may sound strange, but there will be many questions about the cultural diversity of Federation. Remember our own world history in that the Marshall Plan for post-war Germany was proposed and fathered by a general who had planned the war's victory.

These three situations will not arise all the time. Andorian honor would not need to fulfilled when surveying an uninhabited planet. However, this is just a compromise that I arrived out from listening to you guys.

[LtCdr Kagan]

As we've all been away from the board for awhile...

Just wanted to let others know that there is a Cage-era roleplaying site on the web with some interesting information in Universe and Technology section that would be useful for roleplaying opportunities.

http://focusabbey.com/westward/

[RaconteurX]

Interesting site, LtCdr Kagan... hope they fill in the (rather large) blanks soon.