Where is this game going?

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by TFVanguard
Hey, I know I said 'SRD' in there somewhere :P

I just wanted to look over the core mechanics involved without all the setting material, or magic system, involved. The CODA games that have been out are fading from shelves around here, and I really can't justify buying the books anyway. :S

And Ineti's response was quite right. No, there is not an SRD. The D20 SRD is part of the whole OGL thing, and there is no such animal for CODA. You want the rules? They're in the books.

[TFVanguard]

You want the rules? They're in the books.

Yes, but many companies put out either 'demo' versions of the system, quick-play rules, or something else that serves as an introduction to the system. Fusion, Hero, GURPs, etc, all have either 'very cheap' or free documents out there for the purpose of introducing the system to new players.

I can understand if no such animal exists for CODA. All fine and good. But there's no excuse for the attitude presented in answering that question.

[Ergi]

Ordeal on Gamma Elster IV (Quick-start Sample Adventure)
by Doug Sun
(Download 656KB PDF)

Starfleet dispatches your ship, the Olympia, to check in on a research station on Gamma Elster IV in the Gamma Quadrant. But your away team beams into the midst of a firefight between a host of Jem'Hadar and the station crew. Can you retrieve the station's research data and safely return to the Olympia? This short, introductory sample adventure, designed to introduce new players to roleplaying games, includes Fast Play Rules and three ready-made characters.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by TFVanguard
Hey, I know I said 'SRD' in there somewhere :P

I just wanted to look over the core mechanics involved without all the setting material, or magic system, involved. The CODA games that have been out are fading from shelves around here, and I really can't justify buying the books anyway. :S

Man, WotC really has spoiled gamers. Don't want to buy any of our games, that's okay! Here's the rules anyway. I'm glad not all companies do that.


Anyway, both the LOTR RPG and the Star Trek RPG have free downloadable adventures on Decipher's site. Each of them contain fast play rules. They won't give you the entire system, but they'll give you a taste. Possibly enough to encourage you to acutally go out and buy one of the two games.

EDIT: The Trek quick start adventure has already been posted, so here's the LOTR one.

The Road to Henneth Annûn (Quick-start Sample Adventure)
by Douglas Sun

In the province of Ithilien in the Kingdom of Gondor, the Dark Lord Sauron has thrown an army against the causeway forts outside the ruined city of Osgiliath, which are defended by a small but determined garrison. The beleaguered garrison needs a few intrepid messengers to get through to Lord Faramir at the secret stronghold of Henneth Annûn and ask him to come to their aid. The fate of these brave men – perhaps even of Gondor itself – hangs on successful delivery of this message. Can your party see it through? This short, introductory sample adventure, designed to introduce new players to roleplaying games, includes Fast Play Rules and three ready-made characters.

http://decipher.com/lordoftherings/rpg/adventures.html

[TFVanguard]

Originally posted by Ineti
Man, WotC really has spoiled gamers. Don't want to buy any of our games, that's okay! Here's the rules anyway. I'm glad not all companies do that.

The 'quick start' or 'core rules' idea really predates WOTC by years. I don't know who did it first, but GURPs had 'quick play' rules for free in game stores years ago. Fusion, etc, all have smaller 'quick rule' guides that give you a brief overview of the basics.

Remember, I already have a lot of the background material, which is what I usually buy games for. It's going to be a lot harder for me to justify $100 or so to get the CODA collection, when most of the background material is - for my purposes - going to be heavily duplicated.

That's not meant to be a slight, in any way, against Decipher or the people who worked on the game. It's just that when I'm dealing with that much money, I want to be pretty sure about things before laying out the debit card.

That said, I'm tempted to get the Starships book, since it seems to be the most complete, but I'm still a bit iffy. I'm not a really big TNG-VOY fan, and the books are heavily focused on that era.

They won't give you the entire system, but they'll give you a taste. Possibly enough to encourage you to acutally go out and buy one of the two games.

Well, going from a quick glance, looks like it's a 2d6 versus 'target number' system. I'll have to run it through to see how things are better put together - such as attribute use, skills, etc... but it looks straight forward.

Does Decipher have any interest in continuing the CODA system, even if they're waning interest in the Trek license?

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by TFVanguard
Yes, but many companies put out either 'demo' versions of the system, quick-play rules, or something else that serves as an introduction to the system. Fusion, Hero, GURPs, etc, all have either 'very cheap' or free documents out there for the purpose of introducing the system to new players.

I can understand if no such animal exists for CODA. All fine and good. But there's no excuse for the attitude presented in answering that question.

There's a big difference between "fastplay rules" and "SRD", TFV. One has abbreviated rules to be used at tournaments, etc. The other is basically the entire ruleset without any color text. If you wnated a quickstart sort of thing, you should have asked for it.

As for the attitude of my response, I simply stated the facts. You know, before you start going off on people for reacting badly to your comments, you should rephrase your posts to be more clear.

[TFVanguard]

There's a big difference between "fastplay rules" and "SRD", TFV. One has abbreviated rules to be used at tournaments, etc. The other is basically the entire ruleset without any color text. If you wnated a quickstart sort of thing, you should have asked for it.

I asked for an SRD because the discussion was about, at the time, expanding support for the CODA system. An SRD would tackle the questions of 'what's specific to Star Trek, LOTR', etc... as well as provide the basic rules.

Quick Play rules can vary greatly as to what's included. GURPs and Fusion had all of their core mechanics present. D&D's quick play often included rules for the first few levels of characters. HERO had a 'no special powers' approach, but otherwise all the core mechanics present.

For my decision to buy the Star Trek RPG from Decipher, then the Quick Play rules will be good enough to make that decision. For purposes of supporting CODA in the long run - that requires knowledge of the more-or-less complete rules set.

As for the attitude of my response, I simply stated the facts. You know, before you start going off on people for reacting badly to your comments, you should rephrase your posts to be more clear.

I didn't single you out, it's more of a general attitude. This is an extremely hostile forum, even including people who are professional designers. That treatment to a potential customer is not only unwarranted, but a serious professional error.

Simply put, why should I, as a customer and possible CODA supporter, choose to support the system if any question about it is met with such an attitude? Why should I rush out and spend $100 on a new Star Trek RPG, when simple questions are met with derision by the people who made it?

[Mac417]

In no way is this me jumping on the "dogpile on TFV" bandwagon, but to be honest, TFV, TrekRPG.net isn't considered an official forum sponsored by Decipher. Whether any of the posters here have professional relationships with the Trek RPG or Decipher or not, they're not under any kind of obligation to couch their opinions. And the reason this board exists is to express frank opinions.

My apologies to both TFV and Doug if I overstepped myself, but I thought that bore need of elucidation.

[TFVanguard]

My apologies to both TFV and Doug if I overstepped myself, but I thought that bore need of elucidation.

I understand where you're coming from, and I wouldn't suggest that they're not entitled to their opinions. But sometimes how you say something is just as important as what you say - particularly when you're tacking on your credentials as a writer, designer, artist, etc, when you're doing it.

I'm not that great in how I present myself at times, and I recognize that, but - in this case at least - I'm also not carrying the baggage of being professionally tied to the product being discussed.

[Dan Gurden]

Due to this thread being reported I have moderated slightly for offensive language content. Space_Cadet if you want to discuss further, please drop me a line...

Thats all, you can now coninue with your established conversation.

NOTE: For reference when posting Pitures, or for general Offensive Language use. This is an open forum based on a youth orientated hobby over a TV show. Please remember that there will occasionally be minors present and try to control your language accordingly. I'd rather such self-control came from you guys than be imposed...

[Tobian]

Hmm Ok this got out of hand over the weekend then!

Hmm yes I think that the bottom line is here that the game needs a good solid company behind it churning out SOMETHING> I think that as a whole what the Decipher system does lack is anything that the LUG system had, which was adventures... it's all well and good providing core rules sets but ideas are the most findamental thing. I have to confess that of the races and ships presented nothing really made me go think up an adventure..

As a model of D20 I have to agree on the Spycraft system, but then after a bout of Stargate I am reminded of several reasons I dislike D20 in general, and where I liked it most was when... I disregarded the rules sets and just played out the mystery> Hmm..

I'm not horendously Pro-Coda any more than I am a die hard D20 hater I just think that each game deserves a customised rules set and not an off the shelf one. Coda acheived that for me, ok it might not have for others, but well it's all we have untill someone else runs with the ball. I still think there's enough interest in the StarTrek Genre for someone to make money at it, but it's a shame that Decipher couldn't see that and have all but closed their line despite having created some very nice games!

[REG]

Originally posted by Ineti

Man, WotC really has spoiled gamers. Don't want to buy any of our games, that's okay! Here's the rules anyway. I'm glad not all companies do that.

I hope you mean many but not all. I do enjoy D&D as well as other non-D&D non-WotC RPGs.

But one could apply that same argument above toward other game companies' devoted customers -- even Decipher's -- as well ... many but not all.

[REG]

Originally posted by Tobian

As a model of D20 I have to agree on the Spycraft system, but then after a bout of Stargate I am reminded of several reasons I dislike D20 in general, and where I liked it most was when... I disregarded the rules sets and just played out the mystery> Hmm..

Isn't that how all roleplaying game should be played? Don't let the rules distract nor dictate the story? That's the Gamemaster's job.

I'm not horendously Pro-Coda any more than I am a die hard D20 hater I just think that each game deserves a customised rules set and not an off the shelf one. Coda acheived that for me, ok it might not have for others, but well it's all we have untill someone else runs with the ball. I still think there's enough interest in the StarTrek Genre for someone to make money at it, but it's a shame that Decipher couldn't see that and have all but closed their line despite having created some very nice games!

Of those last statements, I do agree. Although I do have misgivings about the company itself (no prior experience in RPG publishing before they hired the former LUG, former WotC employees), Decipher should have stuck to it and let the RPG Studio run their end of the business operation.

But business is business, and lately RPG industry is taking a big hit this last year. TCG is still #1 with CMG and boardgames a close second and third in the non-electronic gaming market.

[REG]

Originally posted by Tobian

Hmm yes I think that the bottom line is here that the game needs a good solid company behind it churning out SOMETHING> I think that as a whole what the Decipher system does lack is anything that the LUG system had, which was adventures... it's all well and good providing core rules sets but ideas are the most findamental thing. I have to confess that of the races and ships presented nothing really made me go think up an adventure..

It was just more than just adventures. Back in the 90's, we LUGTrek fans were churning up some new material for the games and have them posted here on Trek-RPG.net. I presented some new packages at an affordable DP cost (a la HERO), other folks creating the Star Fleet Marines, ships were being created and converted left and right. We had a mailing list discussing each DS9 episode and then try to put what we observed or mentioned into useful game material. It was like we were playing the first roleplaying game ever invented ... if you can ignore D&D. There were so much enthusiasms.

But now it seems like a long time ago.

[Tobian]

Hmm yes, very much a case of the tail wagging the dog. had they been left alone we'de just have.... a few more products now

It's a shame that the gaming industry is suffering now but I have a feeling in some ways it has to to with oversaturation. It's a shame from our POV it was US that had to give