holodeck question

[The Praetor]

I've got a question, I'm about to start my first session as a Narrator and there's one character who is a creator of holodeckprograms and our first session is some sort of test in the holodeck and the characters aren't aware of this.

Thank you

[Owen E Oulton]

Sorry, but the dark green on the grey is really hard to read. Just use the default white text, please!

I'm not certain what the question is. Are you wondering if the character can determine if the test is real?

This is more a question of logic than game mechanics. There has to be a reason for a character to disbelieve and attempt to determine if the scenario is real. Starfleet is going to be using the latest in holography technology and highly trained programmers, so it's not going to be easy.

What clues are there that this is a simulation? Are there mistakes in the scenario that point to it not being real? Go back and watch the two Moriarty episodes (TNG's Elementary, Dear Data and Ship In a Bottle) and the first Section 31 episode (DS9's Inquisition) for episodes which deal with this theme.

Consider what the background of the character is - is he just a hobbyist (i.e. picked up the skill as a background skill), Starfleet trained (picked up the skill as an Academy or professional skill) or a former professional (previous experience as a holoprogrammer befor joining Starfleet)? A hobbyist would probably have little or no chance of determining that he's in a holodeck. Someone who is Starfleet trained might recognise the style of his instructor (assuming that instructor was the programmer) - perhaps the instructor always uses a particular character which the PC has noticed. A former professional holoprogrammer might be able to determine from a technical standpoint.

At minimum, it will be a difficult task.

[The Praetor]

sorry about the color

the character just makes holoprograms as a hobby, so he's no pro

indeed I was wondering whether he can determine if the test is real, but now that I think of it, you're right, it's quite dumb always wondering whether it's a holoprogram or reality

I think I'll drop the idea of him finding out it's a holoprogram

thanks for your help

[Thia]

what system are you in? ICON?

[Owen E Oulton]

"I think I'll drop the idea of him finding out it's a holoprogram"

Well, I wasn't trying to dissuade you, just pointing out that there has to be a good reason for it... You can specifically work it in as part of a long-term plan.

For instance, this would definitely gain the character some renown. As well, you could later (6 months or more in real-time) have the the characters captured by Romulans and placed in a holodeck in an effort to find out vital Federation secrets as in the TNG episode Future Imperfect (just ditch the alien kid and make the scenario the Rommies use more reasonable).

[The Praetor]

Originally posted by Thia
what system are you in? ICON?

yes, I indeed use ICON

Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
"I think I'll drop the idea of him finding out it's a holoprogram"

Well, I wasn't trying to dissuade you, just pointing out that there has to be a good reason for it... You can specifically work it in as part of a long-term plan.

For instance, this would definitely gain the character some renown. As well, you could later (6 months or more in real-time) have the the characters captured by Romulans and placed in a holodeck in an effort to find out vital Federation secrets as in the TNG episode Future Imperfect (just ditch the alien kid and make the scenario the Rommies use more reasonable).

well, the most difficult part is finding a reason why should discover that it's a holoprogram, ofcourse I can let some mistakes slip in but that seems a bit unrealistic for we're using the latest holotechnology (like you mentioned)
I'm going to give it another thought
I like the idea of a later session like Future Imperfect


note: now I understand why you didn't get the question the first time, there's some info gone

[Tobian]

Being able to see through a holodeck simulation will always have more to do with the flaws of the programmer and the programme than the knowledge of the person in how to write them.

In all of the epeisodes where the holodeck has been used to trick someone - such as when Riker was kept captive by the minuet simulation, or indeed the above mentioned episodes it was the flaws in the logic of the programmers - their gaps in personal knowledge and not anticipating everything someone can do which causes people to not fall for it.

Technologically speaking the technology in the latter 24th century is sufficiently convincing to be completelly real to anyone inside it, bar perhaps someone who is some sort of autistic, with the ability to see mathematical fractals used to simulate randomness (or perhaps like Data cold when he realised Juliana Taynor was an android because everything she did was based on prime numbers etc).

Usually where they slip up is the limits to their knowledge. The computer is usually fairly good at simulating people based on their personel files, but the problem is unless the person adding to the simulation either knows that person intimatelly or has some kind of memory technology this will fall flat if any subject outside of their file appears.. it's the old "Do you remember that pet name you used for me on that fishing trip 5 years ago" gag..

The other major identifyer is that if the simulation is fooling people into believing it's real it's not doing it because it's bored.. it's doing it because someone wants the victims to do something or tell them something they wouldn't normally tell! - such as a Romulan agent trying to find the secret codes, or a bored alien who wants to entertain himself The point is he is going to be putting those people in situations where they might question what is going on, and one of those roads is going to be... a holodeck. Quite often in such simulations the characters will try and coax information out of the victims by strealth or even indirectly, such as when Picard was fooled into giving out his command codes etc..

So the bottom line is no, I don't think being an expert in holodeck simulations will help you to identify them as such. You should also have fun with several false endings too.. makes them question if they ever really left !

[knarf]

This discussion reminds me of a FarScape episode I saw once.

The main character finds himself back on Earth only to discover it 's a simulation. Since it's based on a scan of his brain, everything there can only be based in what he knows.

All the magazines are out of date (the last ones he read before leaving Earth)

Everyone he sees he knows in some way, if only tangentially. (The girl who sat across from your best friend in high school type stuff)

He finally confirms his suspicions be entering the only place he has never been and has no experience with - the ladies room!

That just made it classic.

[Tobian]

Yes that was a very good episode! The whole thing worked at first because he assumed tht the Government were baring him any access to anything that dated after he left, in case he was an alien infiltrator...
The only thing which struck me as silly about the whole scenario, was that as a Nasa astronaut he wasn't taken back to.. Nasa Obviously budgetary constraints meant they had to film in Australia (because the unit was based there) but it stretched reality just a tiny amount. Still it was refreshing for it NOT to have been filmed in LA

[Owen E Oulton]

You mean IASA, not NASA...

Of course, the Farscape bit only works as a psionic gambit, not a holodeck scenario. Starfleet certainlt has enough information to use people and places the characters haven't been to.

Unless, that is, the scenario was specifically designed to test that sort of problem-solving, in which case it would be perfectly in-character for the amateur holodeck tinkerer to guess that it's a simulation.