Doctor on the bridge?

[The Praetor]

The PC's are Ensigns aboard the USS Magelhaes, which is a Nova class vessel.
I'd like to give them some bridgeduty's (during the night ofcourse) to see how they would react to certain situations.
The PC's are an engineer, a security officer, a science officer and a medical officer.
Every classification has a role on the bridge, except the medical officer. He could spend hours watching the Life Support screen, but I don't want him to do this. I can put him in sickbay but then he will have nothing to do when something happens.

So, is there a way in which I can put a doctor on the bridge?

Thanks

[Cut]

Hey...

As we have seen on screen, Doctor Crusher is the CMO and holding the rank of commander, pulling bridge duty on a regular basis. Deanna Troi was sort of inspired by that and took up a command track training program. I just can't recall the name of the TNG Episode were this was shown. (might have been "lower decks" than again, maybe not).

So perhaps your player character is persuing the same goal, of gaining some command authority and experience.
In the ICON Player's handbook there are even some character development packages like bridge officer training. Perhaps you could use them.

And you could even set up a roleplaying challange for your player. That he has to voice his oppinion about becoming a bridge certified officer to his superior and play out the talking and so on, getting his character to develop slowly to a full fledged bridge duty certified officer.

Just some ideas...

[The Praetor]

thanks for the info, I'll take a look at the bridge officer training

[Tobian]

Technically speaking there isn't really anything stopping a CMO from holding a command position or even being Captain - Spock was FO and yet he was also CSO - generally a CMO couldn't do it as part of his/ her regular duty shift, but then in emergency situations, if they had the rank they would be called in.

Usually it follows that line officers are called to duty first, over the sciences, but a rank is still a rank, and a commander always outranks an ensign

Generally speaking an officer needs to be bridge certificated to take bridge positions regularly, but then as has been pointed out Troi and Crusher were both (evenually) certificated so in the right circumstances they could gain (and have) the command of the ship and even gain their own ships in the future!

Especially on a small vessel like a Nova class ship ANY of the crew might be called in to double up on duties - so a high ranking MO might well have command duties whereas on larger ships it's less likelly.

[Pericles]

Spock isn't the greatest example as he was a TOS officer and they had a more restrictive structure than in TNG. Spock was also a special case in that he had duty both as First Officer and as Chief Science Officer. He only became First Officer after the Enterprise's official First Officer Gary Mitchell was killed and, what would be in TNG, the Second Officer, in this case, Spock took over the responsibilities as First Officer. McCoy specifically mentioned once that as a CMO, he could not command because he was not a line officer.
In the episode The Deadly Years when Kirk and most of the other line officers age rapidly due to exposure to Bethold radiation and become unable to exercise command. A staff Commodore makes the mistake of exercising his right to take command based on his rank over the best qualified line officer (Sulu) and promptly nearly gets the Enterprise destroyed. A perfect example of why non-line officers don't command starships.
It may have been in response to incidents like this that Starfleet of the TNG era realized the line/non-line system wasn't working and created the Bridge Officer Training Program to give non-line officers the ability to "earn their pips" as it were.
When the Enterprise-D was disabled from hitting that quantum string (or whatever treknobabble it was they hit) and all the command officers were off the bridge save that one lieutenant that was killed, leaving Troi as senior officer on the bridge even though this was prior to her taking the Bridge Officer Training Course. Ensign Ro had to route all decisions through Troi, but it was obviously just as bad a situation as the staff puke from the TOS era taking command.
Rank is a factor in command, but any officer worth the title that is of a non-line career path (medical, JAG, Supply, etc) will always yield to a more junior line officer when it comes to combat/ship survival issues as they should know their limitations and that rank is secondary to the survival of the ship.
Now an interesting role playing opportunity would be to have some staff puke take over in a critical situation and make it far worse. Do the PCs blindly follow orders to their, and the ship's, doom, or do they accept the courts martial offense of what technically a mutiny and save the ship by "removing the command problem?"

[Tobian]

That's the problem with Startrek - there are just TOO many 'special cases' which are... exactly what we have to base our opinions on - so how do we know if it is normal or not!

I have to agree with the line / none line officer statement and by and large the whole section on 'bridge officer' training helps to go allong way to state those as definable things somenone needs to have. I suspect that most officers in operations recieve some form of bridge certification, as it's part of their regular duties (take over the helm, engineering console. operations controll etc) whereas medical and science probably don't as a rule - because they are more intensivelly trained in sciences (medicine, physics, biology, psychology, technobable etc) - *BUT* can take certification at a later date.

So basically the answer to your question is yes the doctor CAN be in command on the bridge, but will usually bow their command to a line officer if needed - after all 99% of the command position is sitting on a comfy chair in the middle of the room and letting everyone else do their job while you have a smug grin

The story involving Troi was an interesting one, which ultimatelly proved to Troi's benefit - but there is a fine grey line here. The non line officer will most often take command if he has junior officers under him - because that is protocol - and said junior officers can challenge him/ her for it BUT then that all depends on the situation. In that scenario Troi took the team that she had and used their skills and knowledge - and had them do what they were trained to do - that *IS* what command is about, andin Troi's case she had good people skills to mitigate this. So the answer is complex because if your chief engineer is busy commanding because, while lower in rank than the chief counselor (as an example), he is a line officer, who is actualy fixing the ship - commanding is a job which takes time!

[Pericles]

You raise an interesting point with the lieutenant engineer that is a line officer versus a ship's counsellor lieutenant commander that is not. In most critical situations, the counsellor should yield command to the lieutenant. However, if the ship is severely damaged, the engineer's skills may be more needed in repairing the ship than having him act a line office in command of the ship. In this case, it will depend on the quality of the second engineer, if there even is one. If they are a good "wrench" then the lieutenant should take command of the ship. If the second engineer is a kludge, then the lieutenant should stay with the repairs and have the counsellor sit in that nice chair with the express understanding that if anything important happens, the lieutenant has command.

[Tobian]

Yes and no - because as it has been pointed out a non-line officer can actually claim command if they wish it - they have a choice to yield or not. It's only really in emergencies where such a thing should have come to a head anyway. Usually the captain of the ship will have left standing orders on why exactly gets what and who is in charge of what.

Another point with that specific incident with Troi.. The whole reason that medical officers (and she counts as such) have their rank is because of emergency situations where a medical officer needs to order someone else around. if a medical officer wants to order an admiral around she can if it comes within their remit! I.e. health and safety of the individual or the crew. It's a grey area there BUT Troi is in the medical department and the main problem they faced was a humanitarian problem.. I.e. failing life support, wounded and injured people and triage. Troi, in that instance does have dominion because she istrained to handle situations like that. If the ship had been under attack then the command would probably have gone to Ro.

[stule]

Hey Guys!

Great Topic!

One thing has always bugged me though about the Counselor on the Bridge situation.

(Scene from Generations)
You are Will Riker, one of the best pilots in Starfleet.
You have just got your butt handed to you by a bird of prey.
You have just ordered an emergency saucer sep and you know you are going to crash on a planet.
1500 People lives are in your hands.
The Manuever had never been done before.

And you tell the counselor to take the helm?

The Counselor?

Best Pilot?
Check!

Lives in the balance?
Check!

Never been done?
Check!

The Counselor?
Um.....uh....

Besides the fact that she married the producer can someone tell me why they trusted her to do something that had never been attempted before?

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by stule
Besides the fact that she married the producer can someone tell me why they trusted her to do something that had never been attempted before?

1) Marina Sirtis didn't marry any ST producer; She married, and is still married to, a musician by the name of Michael Lamper.

2) I'd think that ANY bridge officer would be trained to take command in emergency situations; Such persons may not be the best but would be competent.

[Tobian]

Come on! How hard can it be to press the 'don't crash on the planet' button It is a 24th century ship - they can fly themselves given a little guidance

Seriously though, Deanna is a qualified bridge officer who's logged quite a few hours in the simulator and for all we know has tried it a few times offscreen. the point is she would have been, as Ezri said, competent.

And your basis for Riker being an amazing pilot? Yeah I know they said he was apparently, but he had to use a joystick to fly the enterprise E so clearly he'd forgotten where the CONN console was let alone use one!

[stule]

LMAO Tobian!

I forgot about the Joystick!

OMG that was a funny scene!

Still, the fact that they entrusted the counselor to land the ship was a little ridiculous.

She did crash the Enterprise - E into the Scimitar so I guess she is kind of an expert at piloting.

I guess it does make sense.

Still can't stand her though.
(Low Budget B Movie Loser)

I am so Glad her and Worf didn't work out.
Dax was such a better choice for him.

Anyway, thats my take.


For those of you who do like Deanna, I am not insulting you or trying to get you angry.
I'm just an ignorant person who can't stand that woman LOL!!!








U.S.S. Enterprise D - crashing on a planet....

Ensign Expendable: "hey we are gonna crash! We got no pilot!"

Commander Riker (Drinking some coffee): "Get the Counselor. I'm busy!"


LMAO

[Pericles]

Another point with that specific incident with Troi.. The whole reason that medical officers (and she counts as such) have their rank is because of emergency situations where a medical officer needs to order someone else around. if a medical officer wants to order an admiral around she can if it comes within their remit! I.e. health and safety of the individual or the crew. It's a grey area there BUT Troi is in the medical department and the main problem they faced was a humanitarian problem.. I.e. failing life support, wounded and injured people and triage. Troi, in that instance does have dominion because she istrained to handle situations like that. If the ship had been under attack then the command would probably have gone to Ro.

After some thought I have to disagree that she was acting in her counsellor/medical function. The bridge was cut off and she actually was acting in a command role. Even though not a bridge officer yet and had to have her senior status pointed out to her by O'Brien.
If she had been in ten forward where all the injured were being taken, then yes she would have had every right to take command of that situation, even if Picard himself had been there.
However, she was on the bridge and had the role of command dumped in her lap. Given the circumstances, she did a fairly decent job, even though she didn't pick the best choice for the best reason, she picked the best choice more from her humanitarian training than what was best for the ship. But that is a personal opinion.

[Tobian]

Well it's all swings and roundabouts. Assuming that O'Brien, the majically decominnioned Lieutenant to Chief petty officer man, understood the Starfleet Chain of command then it would appear that in Starfleet it doesn't matter where your promotion came from.. Your rank *IS* what defines the chain of command!

In the epsiode I think she did make the right choices and she did have allot of instinct. Half of the battle there was that Ro was fighting her uphill the whole time so perhaps she didn't use exactly the right skill set for the right job but the poiint was she assigned the people in the right way - aka keeping Ro out of everyone elses hair

[calguard66]

Originally posted by Ezri's Toy

2) I'd think that ANY bridge officer would be trained to take command in emergency situations; Such persons may not be the best but would be competent.

Commander Troi completed her bridge certification training in order to earn her promotion to Commander. We can assume she was a qualified pilot and astrogator at the time of the destruction of NCC-1701-D. We also know that Troi served as OOD during off watches. Incidentally, I would assume that she was also a qualified Engineering Officer of the Watch, since we can infer an engineering qualification portion of her testing process... and also because it simply makes sense to have the officer in command of a vessel minimally familiar with it's engineering spaces.

Since Commander Riker found himself in command during a battle he likely didn't want to confine himself to the role of pilot. Officers are taught to leave themselves mobile and to place themselves at the critical point where their influence can be brought to bear on the situation. By putting himself in the pilot's seat he would have been depriving himself of that mobility.

Commander Crusher was also bridge certified and took command of the Enterprise at least once. Presumably she was also a qualified pilot, astrogator and EOotW as well.

We ALSO know that Starfleet does not distinguish between line, restricted line and staff officers. Before her certification Troi wwas left in effective command of the bridge despite the fact there was a Tactical Lieutenant (presumably a "line" officer) and an experienced bridge-watch-qualified NCO present.

Starfleet may require bridge certification for promotion to the rank of Commander and for regular assignment as Officer of the Deck... but it clearly does not distinguish in it's chain of command between command certified officers and staff officers. In this respect it is closer to the US Army than the US Navy. In the Army with the exception of Chaplains an officer is assumed to have the basic knowlege required for tactical command at a level comensurate with their rank... even medical branch personel can hold tactical command of medical and support units. In other words an Army signal branch Lieutenant Colonel is expected to have the basic tactical knowlege required to command at the battalion-equivelent level. There are specific rules in the US Army for assuming command, so that officer wouldn't just show up at a tank company and take over, but if he found himself senior in an ad hoc goup of soldiers he would be expected to take charge even if the rest were all infantry types. This seems to be what happened to LtCdr Troi.