Dominion War Refit Miranda

[varin]

That's the point. I'm not saying that they wouldn' convert or upgrade them. Doing so is certainly logical. My point of contention is to what extent they would be upgarded. I just don't think that a 90-yr old starship shouldn't magically have the capabilities of the lastest crop of starships, especially the ones that were designed to fight the Borg. Come to think of it, why bother designing ships like the Steamrunner, the Norway or the Saber when you can simply reconvert a whole bunch of old Mirandas ???

Snake- You are assuming Starfleet has those types in class min large numbers-the only one in any major numbers are the Akiras-Norways are undergunned and the Steamrunners are in a mixed position due to armaents-they are convoy ships and pirate trackers.

Starfleet by necessity has to do a fast fix and a serious upgrade in a hurry- the Borg are a threat but not THE threat in the scenario that Ice Giant presents in his or her creation of that class.

The simple ???? is this -Why do you think it cannot work-I have a feeling you may have military at one time-so give us a CONCRETE reason why Ice Giant's plans will not work. I really want to know.

You say munchkin designs - give us something-without straining Starfleet's yards to the max- Can you say in the POST DOMINION WAR period Ice Giant's ideas are plausible.

BTW- there are a lot more Miranda class ships-than Sovy's-so that argument does not hold water- the Nebulas were more in vogue at the time of the war period but the Mirandas were used to significant effect.

[Tobian]

I very much suspect that in a post Dominion war environment the ancient and out dated Miranda's would, despite their 'upgrades' last much longer than they could be replaced by more modern starships. The reasons for this are manyfold.

While it would be quite possible to install a set of new systems, such as weapons and shields, the designs are small and uncomfortable and old. They wouldn't have many modern amenities, such as holodecks and I suspect they also probably closed down large swathes of their internal habitable volume, as some of it may have not been habitable, and many of these ships will have been operating under a bare minimum of staff!!This would also have the bonus of creating additional 'armour' especially if they keep the personal quarters and operations in the core of the vessel, minimising casualties from bad hits!

Bottom line is these ships would have not lasted very long under combat conditions.. I know we all joke about how easy the Galaxy class ships blow up But IMHO they are WAAAAY underestimated in the Coda stats - they are one of the best defended, heavilly armed and and technologically sophisticated vessels in the fleet and they should be able to take allot more punishment than a 100 year old Miranda class with a few strap on missiles Point in case, I distinctly remember someone saying 'Galaxy wings' in one of the episode - aka they have built dozens of them ! This is also bourne out by onscren evidence of dozens of them onscreen. Now think about this for a moment - At the time the Enterprise was built is was one of three I repeat THREE - there was capacity to build 3 more (according to the technical manual... Now the Enterprise was dust, the Yamamoto didn't last more than a few years out of the docks and the Oddessy was destroyed (Ok so that's 4 then..) - so basically why did they radically ramp up the number of Galaxy class starships, when they are clearly a resource hungry design, if they were so pathetic! The answer is they are FORMIDABLE ! (Ok and yes they were re-using the model )

Once the war was over, while the impetus would be lower, the Starfleet shipyards had been operating at an amazing production rate, far exceeding what the Dominion thought them capable of ! The reason for this was, despite what their gathered evidence to the contrary would have indicated, that the Federation was fat - it had plenty of resources and a suddenly inspired set of people who WORK FOR FREE - If you lived in a society where all of your needs were taken care of and you beleived in it, and then it was invaded.. there would be nothing stopping you from devoting all of your time to aid with the effort - with tens of dozens of member worlds with populations in their billions that's allot of manpower !

While everyone might suddenly kick back their heels and and breath a sign of relief afterwards, the reality would be there would probably be a good few dozen starships at various stages of construction at the end of the war, which wouldn't be too hard to continue with! That and the fact that with the large numbers of ships that were overburdened with as many weapons systems as possible (such as the old Miranda's) - these could be retrofitted onto the newer ships.

[jkp1187]

Have to interject here....there's nothing inherently wrong with the idea of taking a solid, reliable (if elderly) design and upgrading the hell out of it. The B-52 was designed in the 1950s, when Ike was in the White House, and current USAF projections say that the service life of the B-52H will continue UNTIL THE YEAR 2040, (Yes, that's right, 13 years before the Flight of the Phoenix....) after which the acft will have been in service for *84* years.

(See http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-52-life.htm
see also: http://www.afmc.wpafb.af.mil/HQ-AFMC...an/0129-04.htm)

Now, lots of arguments can be made about whether or not an atmosphere-capable craft should be compared to spacecraft.... but, in fact, I'd argue that the analogy is valid. In fact, there would be far more stresses on the frame of an aircraft than a dedicated spacecraft that never enters atmospheric service, and spends most of its time with shields and navigational deflectors protecting it from dust particles and the like.

Since space maneuvering is all just a matter of thrust vs. mass, with no considerations to "aerodynamics" necessary. And since, basically, the whole engine of the ship could be replaced, I don't see any reason why a 100-year old design couldn't be pressed into service for economic reasons later. I don't detect any munchkinism here.....

As for why a Miranda would be upgraded vice a new (more efficient) starship, I cannot comment, as that's a political decision. Perhaps California needed more jobs....? Or do you believe the propaganda that states that everything is Perfect Forever in the Federation...?

[skree]

SORRY, to be a bit off the subject;

But, does anyone have any stats. for this ship.

[jkp1187]

"Official" (CODA) stats are in the "Starfleet Operations Manual" from Decipher....don't know them offhand, but I know they're there.

[skree]

I checked no they are not

[jkp1187]

Yes they are, in the page facing the Nebula's stats.

[skree]

I respectfully disagree with you
The stats are for the MIRANDA class
not the SOYUZ.

[redwood973]

Skree, I don't have the Starfleet Operations Manual (hell, I don't even use CODA), but I would assume what jkp1187 is trying to say is the stats for the Soyuz-class are listed in the flavor text of the Miranda-class. They are not a stand alone profile, but the text tells you what stats to change on the Miranda to get the Soyuz.

That's how Steve Long's Spacedock did it. . .just a guess on my part that's what CODA did.

[jkp1187]

Actually, no -- I missed your heading in which you said you wanted Soyuz-class stats...thought you just meant that you wanted standard Miranda.