Berman Talks New Trek Film

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Mac417

And I have to admit one of the things that bugged me about the more recent Trek shows is that hardly anyone had an interest in late 20th/early 21st century pop culture, such as music, movies, literature, etc. And when you did, it was always the '30s, or the '50s, or a less "conflicted" era in that timeframe.

Well, let see;

-Paris had an intense interest in the 20thC...he liked the old serials and '50's TV, as well as the '70's-'90's.
-Riker liked what would today be classed as modern Jazz
-Sisko's favourite baseball team existed in the 21stC.
-LaForge had an interest in Nelsonian Naval History...hardly a "less conflicted time."
-As a Boxer Chakotay would probably know of some fights in the 20th/21stC.
-Janeway knew her family history from that time quite well, since her ralative was part of it.
-etc.

All you have to do is look. AFAIC, Ent has the worst bunch of one dimensional characters of the lot...there is nothing in the story to make them interesting. Other then Tripp muttering "Son of a..." every so often of course.

Personally I LIKE the lack of pop culture references in Trek. What B&B and Co. have done by adding them,IMNSHO, is dumb the show down.

[REG]

Originally posted by Phantom

Well, let see;

-Paris had an intense interest in the 20thC...he liked the old serials and '50's TV, as well as the '70's-'90's.
-Riker liked what would today be classed as modern Jazz
-Sisko's favourite baseball team existed in the 21stC.
-LaForge had an interest in Nelsonian Naval History...hardly a "less conflicted time."
-As a Boxer Chakotay would probably know of some fights in the 20th/21stC.
-Janeway knew her family history from that time quite well, since her ralative was part of it.
-etc.

-Picard have this fascination for Dixon Hill, a "Mike Hammer, PI" clone.

Personally I LIKE the lack of pop culture references in Trek. What B&B and Co. have done by adding them,IMNSHO, is dumb the show down.

Well, we have yet to see them commit a cardinal sin such as having Mayweather a secret Britney Spears fan, just for once I'd like a character who is into KISS or 1970's heavy metal rock.

[Mac417]

Originally posted by REG
Well, we have yet to see them commit a cardinal sin such as having Mayweather a secret Britney Spears fan, just for once I'd like a character who is into KISS or 1970's heavy metal rock.

I have this weird image of Travis in his quarters, kicked back in his bunk, reading reports on a datapad, with a pair of headphones on, humming, ''oops, I did it again..."

[BouncyCaitian]

Uh....I implimented "bad Movie Night" as a tradition in my games. Subject the Ent Crew to "Battlefield Earth" and watch them quit whining about thier current straits.

[REG]

Originally posted by BouncyCaitian

Uh....I implimented "bad Movie Night" as a tradition in my games. Subject the Ent Crew to "Battlefield Earth" and watch them quit whining about thier current straits.

I doubt that would work, especially if Scientology is still thriving in the 2160's.

[Bluecoat1861]

Well some thoughts:

1st Funny how the respsonse of "sketchy records from the time" as was so often repeated in TOS has now become very precise reference to pop culture, I mean crappy B movies from the 50's survive but we some how manage to lose the historical record! Of course TOS had no way of sensing the coming Information Revolution (powered by Digital means) which has insured that a good record of our time will continue no matter what.

2nd How about a prequal that is not focused on Earth or humanity but on Vulcan, Andoria or any other culture how about a story about the fall of the last Klingon Emperor? However I do think it is right to ask at what point does it stop being trek and starts to become something else entirely different?

[Balok]

Originally posted by Bluecoat1861
1st Funny how the respsonse of "sketchy records from the time" as was so often repeated in TOS has now become very precise reference to pop culture, I mean crappy B movies from the 50's survive but we some how manage to lose the historical record! Of course TOS had no way of sensing the coming Information Revolution (powered by Digital means) which has insured that a good record of our time will continue no matter what.

One consideration is that during times of social upheaval, as have been alluded to, people often go to considerable trouble to destroy records, documents and other data that do not conform to their particular cultural, religious, or moral view. They don't go to this sort of trouble for entertainment unless it is controversial.

They also write new versions of events that do conform to their views. Right here in the United States we *still* have people who try to get the Theory of Evolution removed from classrooms because it doesn't agree with what their holy book tells them happened.

Historians, decades or centuries later (after all the actors of the time are gone), must then look at many conflicting versions, and decide which is accurate. If they can. If they can't resolve the conflict, the matter is generally considered open until (unless) new evidence further clarifies it.

While it's hard to imagine anything wiping out the historical record in this age of vast information storage and distributed computing, it's also kinda hard to imagine anyone would be stupid enough to start a nuclear war. And yet, in the Trek backstory, someone did.

Originally posted by Bluecoat1861
2nd How about a prequal that is not focused on Earth or humanity but on Vulcan, Andoria or any other culture how about a story about the fall of the last Klingon Emperor? However I do think it is right to ask at what point does it stop being trek and starts to become something else entirely different?

The chief problem with telling such a story is drawing in the audience. In order to "sell" such a story (i.e. make the audience want to listen), you would need to find a way to link them to it. That's why, in Trek, all the Starship captains and most of the important characters are human. Same with Star Wars, Bab 5, and others. Without the audience connection, it's hard to tell an interesting story.

[strict31]

Originally posted by Fesarius
Without the audience connection, it's hard to tell an interesting story.

Not hard to tell...hard to sell, maybe...

But I think you're right. Our heroes must be either human or humanized; tailored to make the target audience empathize. Again, i find my thoughts drifting back to the Star Wars Christmas special atrocity, that spent more than an hour trying to get the audience to care about Chewbacca's Wookiee family. After about ten minutes of dialogue consisting of grunts and growls and barks, you really feel like you want to kill something.

Terrible.


Strictly Speaking

[Bluecoat1861]

The apeal of the Sword of Khaless was high for the novel crowd and brought in some people from the fantasy realm to boot, on another note Ford's Klingon story is still liked very much by most to this day 20+ years after it was published.

If a movie about 4 Hobbits can make it why can't one based on interesting off shoot of the trek universe not work?

Just remember I am not disagreeing with you guys, in fact your point is as valid as any

[Bluecoat1861]

Originally posted by Fesarius


Historians, decades or centuries later (after all the actors of the time are gone), must then look at many conflicting versions, and decide which is accurate. If they can. If they can't resolve the conflict, the matter is generally considered open until (unless) new evidence further clarifies it.

While it's hard to imagine anything wiping out the historical record in this age of vast information storage and distributed computing, it's also kinda hard to imagine anyone would be stupid enough to start a nuclear war. And yet, in the Trek backstory, someone did.

Point taken however in ages past information was stored in specific locations libraries, archives etc . . . now every home is a library and archive thanks to DVDs, CDs, widespread cheap publishing of books etc. . . A whole eon of information and knowledge can not be destroyed in one fire at alexandria anymore. Distribution has upset the traditional means of information being saved from one generation to another for ever. It has been happening for decades since the mid 19th century with the invention of Photography families now know what a relative/ancetopry from the civil War looks like. Even in the dark ages of Europe, Roman knowledge continued on in monestaries though most people had no concept it even existed.

[strict31]

Originally posted by Bluecoat1861
The apeal of the Sword of Khaless was high for the novel crowd and brought in some people from the fantasy realm to boot, on another note Ford's Klingon story is still liked very much by most to this day 20+ years after it was published.

If a movie about 4 Hobbits can make it why can't one based on interesting off shoot of the trek universe not work?

Just remember I am not disagreeing with you guys, in fact your point is as valid as any

The hobbits are an example of beings that have been humanized. Their very values and ideologies are very human. They even resemble human children...quite intentionally, I would think. Makes them even easier to empathize with...they're "cute" in other words.

Try to imagine if you had a Trek movie in which the main character was a Horta. Try to imagine if the main character in LotR was a Balrog. The Sword of Kahless (which I have not read) wouldn't appeal to a mainstream movie audience. It would appeal to some Trek fans, but then, not all of them. It would just be a bad idea for the studio. Might be a good story. But my point isn't whether the story is good, but whether it can reach the audience you want it to reach.

In SW, I like Aayla Secura. I think she's not only a cool character, but a full metal hottie. She's a Twi'lek. alien, but an anthropomorphic alien. She is a popular comic book character who managed to appeal to Lucas so much that he gave her a cameo in Attackof the Clones. Rumor has it she will have a slightly larger role in Revenge of the Sith. But an entire movie just about her? That would only appeal to a niche market. And a very narrow slice of the niche market at that; namely, SW fans who know that there are SW comic books available to read. I'd love to read a novel starring Aayla. And I'd love to see Amy Allen in the blue body paint and Lekku, starring in a movie about Aayla. But I have no doubt that my neighbors, who might normally go see the trilogies in theaters would be less than interested in such a flick, because the character has very little appeal outside fanboy interest.


Strictly Speaking

[Bluecoat1861]

Originally posted by strict31

In SW, I like Aayla Secura.

Thats two votes for her movie I like her as well

[strict31]

Originally posted by Bluecoat1861
Thats two votes for her movie I like her as well

Glad to know I'm not the only one with a twi'lek addiction...


Strictly Speaking

[vinush]

Here here.

When I first heard about Enterprise, I was more than a little worried. There was so much had happened in all of the other series which had set up a very strict timeline of events.

I was always concerned that they might in some way slip slightly and mess up Trek history.

How wrong I was.

They didn't slip slightly, they screwed the timeline over completely!

The Enterprise crew have encountered the borg.

The Enterprise crew have encountered the Ferengi.

The Enterprise crew have encountered pasty-headed klingons rather than classic klingons.

And then, to top all of this off, they have a delightful little plot reset button. If someone disagrees with something they've done, they just say "Oh, it's ok, the temporal cold war will sort it out."

That's a bit like having JR step out of the shower and having the last few years as a dream...

There have been many, many good ideas out there for new series. Starfleet Academy for one. That would make an excellent series, it would also be able to draw in a wider demographic than Enterprise had. Think about the demographic of programes like Charmed, Buffy, and those of the same ilk. They would bring in a teen/young adult audience that may not be drawn by the Star Trek audience base.

This would also solve the problem of the super weapons brought back by Janeway, since they wouldn't be used. They could also have episodes where they travel away from the academy on a training vessel, having them carry out field missions and then return.

Vince.

[Tobian]

SHhhhhh We're not supposed to bash Enterprise on here, or the thought police will come and get you You're not supposed to point out technical inconsistiencies because 'it's just a TV show' and those rules don't apply to Enterprise

On the flip side it's the end of series 3, which makes this the 'make or break' series in a trek sense.. from now on it's supposed to get good