Whirling cavalcade of death.

[Tobian]

LOL Publis, I like it!

I just have the Du du du du du du du du du du du music playing in my head.. bring out the monster cotton buds

Yes I space all of the actions out, I don't let players use them all in one go, as it doesn't make any sense to me that someone can shoot 5 times before anyone else can act! That's just silly and powergamey. We do exactly the same with D&D 3rd too (well ish). It stops this exact same effect happening in D&D which can seriously overpower fighters at higher levels... if you give it to them as presented then yes they do munchkinise their initiative because who goes first wins!

I also agree with the damage thing too.. if one character is decimating their coleages; out of raw anger they are going to attack her/him first out of raw anger! I can't remember but isn't there a multiple attacker penalty / bonus if they attack him en-masse ?

[adza]

Well, i actually play in this group, and so i would like to explain a few things.

1) The character (Female Betazoid Security officer) is not simply a combat machine and nothing else. She actually started out as an investigator, and has the ranks to do this competantly. Throwing other stuff at her is ok, she can do it. The player just forgets to. We have a security officer, a science officer, an ops officer, a command officer and a tactical officer. we all specialise, because we each have seperate duties and therefore support each other. Also, the player has decided to make the character a doctor as well (Sort of a battlefield medic) she is as rounded as any of us.

2) the rest of the crew support in combat. in one combat, she fought with the UBER baddie, whilst my Vulcan science officer nerve pinched down the henchmen with my meagre ranks in ponn'iffla and Nerve pinch. we do get to do stuff.

3) It makes perfect sense for the character, she was raise on a colony that was occupied by klingons.....before the Khitomer accords. (Not a pleasant home). She can understanably be a little blood thirsty.

What Mazza and i really object to is that it makes no sense to have the player say "Shall i go for the fifth attack? Ah f*&k it, i might roll high." and watch in horror as the klingon commander falls flat after the third round of combat.

And yet, it is perfectly legal in the rules. I don't have the ranks in Ponn'iffla to make it feasible, but i could always hope to roll boxcars and get a lucky shot in, and pinch them unconscious. Maybe if we said any action after the second gives a cumulative -1 penalty to defense, that would help slightly?

[Tobian]

Well then if you think the rules are broken, change them.

I don't think it says anywhere exactly where those actions take place but I've always read it they happen in linear time.. Example.. Your security officer takes 5 actions.. she spends 4 of those actions aiming, and lowers her difficulty..... Technically this is possible in the rules..

Now to me this says that your actions occur throughout the whole round not JUST on your initiative..

A less severe example.. You fire and move.. So you fire and move in the space of your entire initiative ? a picosecond of time?

yes you are skilled at combat BUT that doesn't make you into superman!

I'm also going to point out too that no matter what your security officer rolls on her initiative the bad guys can still DODGE and still PARRY - in fact they can do exactly the same back as your PC can.. they could dodge and parry 5 times in a round if they rolled high! (ok technically parry as dodge is a once only roll)

Technically speaking (I would have to check the rules to see if this was legal) but they could actually spend one action dodging (increasing their defense) spend one action to parry (also increasing their defence by their skill in the combat plus roll!) giving them an extremely hard difficulty to hit.. Now the trick comes when.. if any of those NPC's have any actions left (or are good enough to such up the penalties) after your PC has gone on to her 5th action THEN they get to give her a good kicking....

As they say.. If they find loopholes in the rules to allowe them to be kick ass hard.. find the same loopholes in the rules that the enemy can exploit!

[Lezta]

Find a system, based on agility, that defines just how many extra actions you can take.

i.e. Someone with an agility bonus of +1 could make 1 extra action.

[Mazza]

Originally posted by Tobian
To be honest I don't see your issue with action points; you only (usually) have 3 at any one adventure... You only re-gain them by doing something heroic...

You're talking about Courage Points here, I was talking about actions, ie, the number of actions you can make in one round. And no, obviously this character doesn't get back courage points she burnt on her initiative roll.

[Mazza]

Originally posted by Tobian
Well then if you think the rules are broken, change them.

I don't think it says anywhere exactly where those actions take place but I've always read it they happen in linear time.. Example.. Your security officer takes 5 actions.. she spends 4 of those actions aiming, and lowers her difficulty..... Technically this is possible in the rules..

Now to me this says that your actions occur throughout the whole round not JUST on your initiative..

A less severe example.. You fire and move.. So you fire and move in the space of your entire initiative ? a picosecond of time?

yes you are skilled at combat BUT that doesn't make you into superman!

I'm also going to point out too that no matter what your security officer rolls on her initiative the bad guys can still DODGE and still PARRY - in fact they can do exactly the same back as your PC can.. they could dodge and parry 5 times in a round if they rolled high! (ok technically parry as dodge is a once only roll)

Technically speaking (I would have to check the rules to see if this was legal) but they could actually spend one action dodging (increasing their defense) spend one action to parry (also increasing their defence by their skill in the combat plus roll!) giving them an extremely hard difficulty to hit.. Now the trick comes when.. if any of those NPC's have any actions left (or are good enough to such up the penalties) after your PC has gone on to her 5th action THEN they get to give her a good kicking....

As they say.. If they find loopholes in the rules to allowe them to be kick ass hard.. find the same loopholes in the rules that the enemy can exploit!

I really do appreciate the hints about what I can do with NPCs to make them less "push-overy", but with this particular player, it is a non-issue - the character will almost certainly go before them, and they won't have a chance to do anything before they're gunned down or beaten into submission.

[Tobian]

Ok then give her 6 NPC's Can't get em all !

Your dodge check doesn't go in the order of initiative you roll it when you need to dodge, so she can't go before their dodge

Also stupid statement really but also give them cover. Cover + dodge will give her a MUCH harder target number to beat...

For example say they run into the bad guys in your generic cargo bay. Put a series of gantries round the cargo bay and an assortment of boxes. If your players are knowingly assaulting said warehouse / cargo bay (meaning the NPC's know they are coming) they will strategically position a number of NPC's around the gantries 9with 50-75% cover and behind the crates 90% cover. If the bad guys employ a Thoron emmitter (how else would they have masked their ilicit smuggling operations from sensors) or a dampening field.. then the players won't know who is where before hand (with the aid of a transporter.

Have the players walk into a pool of light, with most of the cargo bay in shadows... So this will give most of the bad buys a huge bonus to their stealth rolls (probably a +5 or +6 situational modifier).

Try that scenario and yoru security chief can't get everyone in the first round, nor can they beam anything in or out, nor can they 'nuke it from orbit' because their starships sensors won't know it's there either.

[Ergi]

Although this might not matter in most situations, here are the discharge times for phasers fired at different settings from the TNG technical manual.

level 1 0.25s
level 2 0.75s
level 3 1.025sl
level 4 1.5s
level 5 1.5s
level 6 1.75s
level 7 1.75s
level 8 1.75s
level 9 1.5s

from level 9 on discharge times drop again

I suggest using this together with the already existing or upcoming recharge table.

[Pericles]

One word: SNIPER.

She can't fight what she does see and after the sniper fires, she won't be fighting anything, except maybe to remain conscious.

As GM you are NEVER at a player's mercy. She can only take so many actions in a round, make sure there are five times as many NPCs as actions she could possibly fight in a round.

The D6 rules have a rule for massed fire, the idea being it is more difficult to dodge fire from more than one shooter. Use a house Mass fire rule to have your Bruce Lee wannabe so busy dodging fire she can't attack. PCs never run a story, the GM does. You've got way too many resources to ever have a PC dictate how an encounter goes.

Jem Hadar and Borg have personal shielding, have some enterprising Alpha Quadrant race or group have a crude version of the personal shield. Have it fail on a roll of 1 on a D6 to represent it's fragile nature, but if she's facing 20 thugs with personal shields, she's not going to take out more than one or two of them before being riddled with phaser fire, if you are feeling nice, you could use stun, I personally wouldn't to make the example very clear to the player.

[Balok]

Another trick: have the enemies capture a PC. Then, using cosmetic surgery or some other trickery, the PC is made to look like an alien and placed in with the henchmen. Imagine how the player will feel when they read the note: "You killed my brother on <planet>. I have elected to take my revenge by arranging for you to kill someone you value, as you have now done."

There are other, similar gambits that can have a chilling effect on the character's willingness to shoot first and ask questions never.

[Tobian]

mmmMMMmmm shiney ideas !

[Uruz]

If you have a player who has 12 levels in Armed Combat: Energy Weapons, with a specialty in phaser, and has (let's say) a +3 Agility bonus, he's adding +17 before he even rolls. On average, he's going to get a 24 total (roll of 7 on 2d6).

First two actions are without penalty.
First additional action (-5) means on average he'll roll 19.
Second additional (-10), 14.
Third additional (-15), 9.
Fourth (!) additional (-20), 4.

At best he could probably only manage to hit four times a round *at best* - and that's without taking Dodge or cover into consideration.

I think you're being too easy on your players.

[Mazza]

I see five hits against NPCs with a baseline defence - that's enough to stun as many NPC thugs as are in the average party size. Anyway, I really appreciate all the tips about how to deal with this player. I was originally after tips for dealing with what I perceived to be a rules imbalance, now I think it can be dealt with in-game without rules modifications.

[TheAndorian]

I think everyone is missing one major point about all of this and that is, Star Trek is a story telling game, especially for characters who are Starfleet. A security officer could take down millions of people at a time but their first goal is to preserve life, to fight through non-violent means. I would allways leave avenues open to the characters that did not require that they resort to violence. Don't get me wrong I like a phaser fight as much as the next guy, but when you are running or playing in a game based on a high moral standard there should be means available that allows other options. Unless the series takes place in the TOS era then its every man for themselves!

[Tobian]

I agree, but this is all about strategies for dealing with Rules lawyers and Munchkins

Sometimes players decide to get down and dirty, even though you've put them up against a room full of Peace espousing Monks.. You just need to read their minds and begin to formulate a strategy on exactly how you deal with this IF it happens.

Oh and Welcome on board Mr. Andorian, hope you enjoy your stay!