RiP, gaming group.

[Owen E Oulton]

I'm just a trivia sponge, I guess. I find most game shows tedious, I'm afraid. I also try to check out my info before posting, either by physically looking it up in a book or using Google, which they don't let you do on game shows... Bastidges!

I wasn't implying you didn't know what a yield was, just pedantically noting that the SI prefixes aren't normally used for mass measurements - a million tons of cargo is usually just called a million tons rather than a megaton.

Back on topic, it can be very difficult to hold a gaming group together. I regard myself as being very luckily with my current group, who have been together for over 15 years, with a break of about 4 years a while back when a couple of players moved away.

[strict31]

I'm not the biggest fan of the on-line video RPG whachamacallits, but at the same time, I can understand their lure and their value. I had a gaming group. We stuck together for several years doing the WW thang, going from Mage to Aberrant to Vampire...all the way around the WW product line. It became increasingly harder and harder to get together. One of the players was a cassanova of sorts and began dating another player (with ill results...most ill), but he was also (and still is) a member of a band and his commitments to his craft often butted heads with his commitment to gaming. And the f*cked up part is, he was my most solid player.

Another solid player self-destructed for reasons I still don't know even years after the fact. He gave a very lame excuse about going back to school to finish his degree. It was only lame because we knew he made time for other things outside of school...just not gaming anymore. Maybe he found other social things to occupy his mind.

That left the married couple whose apartment we gamed at...they're divorced now after the wife (a full metal honey) had an affair with her boss, and her husband decided to date other guys once more. After the group disintegrated, we tried to maintain our friendships, but we didn't really have much in the way of common interests outside of the game. Of course, I'm still friends with the band dude, but I've been friends with him since Kindergarten; thick and thin style.

A year and a week ago, my mother died after a long bout with cancer. My father died less than a year before that, also from cancer. I returned home to take care of them both when they got sick. Dropped everything and did that. Only two friends didn't completely abandon me, one of whom was the band dude. The other was a high school friend and former gaming buddy (he can't game now because he's got two small children and a job that demands more overtime than you can shake a Rod of Lordly Might at). And I certainly couldn't go off each week to game anymore. I'd have brief spaces of time when all I could manage to do was prop myself up in front of the computer. Found a gaming group online, and we played Aberrant on IRC sporadically. Folks from different countries and time zones. It wasn't much, but it was all any of us could really manage. And when my mom finally passed...man, that was filled with more heavy shit than I intend to share...suffice to say it really f*cked me up....I lost my motivation to play. To be frivolous. haven't got it back either. I don't think it will return. I still get gaming products, but not so much with the actual intent to play.

But even if it returns, I don't have the time for it anymore. I try to balance time for writing and time for my girlfriend and time for everything else. And the time I would have normally devoted freely to gaming is eaten up by one or more of the above. And mind you, that is for IRC gaming!

My case is an extreme example, since I don't even do on-line gaming anymore. But for me, it is easy to see why online RPing has a valid lure. There's something to be said for making time for social events...but then, to a degree, online gaming allows a compromise. For some, it is as social as their lives and schedules will allow. It might not be face to face contact, but it is contact.

So, Phantom, I don't take offense; I'm just trying to explain things from the other side, y'know? It sucks when a gaming group dies. But all things do. And those with groups that have managed to stick together through the years? Despite the arguments and the hardships and the varied, wonderful pressures of real life?

Consider yourselves lucky, lads. Very lucky indeed.


Strictly Speaking

[Tobian]

Pedantic; Owen; you? Surelly not!

Well my gaming group has been together for a number of years and for the moment it's fairly static, but we usually have just enough players to run 2 sessions at once - we meet up in a community centre

While some of the others are interested, I'm the only one who's been motivated to actually buy or run Startrek products, and for the most part we run quite a mix bag of the flavour of the moment - err I think we're doing D&D 3rd; D20 Modern; Stargate; All flesh must be eaten (); Vampire Dark Ages; Agone; D&D 3rd Ebberon; Starwars (both versions?!); Witchcraft... and the ocasional one off (some of our members are... colectors )

As for fallings out: Yes, we do all the time, we are always arguing backstabbing and moaning about other peoples unsocial social habits and I have to definatelly agree - we are WIERD with a capital W I have to agree that we can be a little cliquey and we have scared off some newbies (and there are those who we just can't scare off! ) - and we have our fair share of Munchkins, Rules lawyers and BAAAAD Roleplayers, but by and large I think it all ballances out - and as of yet we haven't had a thermonuclear meltdown

Hope you find the will to get back into Gaming again and I can understand your frustration at trying t run Trek - many of the people at my group just don't like Trek so it's a pain to run it sometimes.. but then with all of the Cloned Andorians with phase shifting nanites running around, everyone's a little curous to see what happens next

[Phantom]

Strict31, I have no problem with a table top RPG being played over the internet (forum, IRC, etc.) as there is still the social aspect, ie players still talk and joke back and forth...just not face-to-face.

[Tobian]

I have to agree there. There is far more of a dynamic within the context of the social gathering than can be gained from an online experience.

I can see the whole concept of the online version being open to abuse to munchkinism.. the GM can't neccessarily see that the players haven't cheated to high heaven using some scripts, and vice versa the GM can't easilly fudge the dice for that critical roll that could be life or death for the players.

I also have a general problem with the way a roleplaying game would translate into a computer simulated environment. While on the one hand you have the advantage of having an avatar character and a 'name' always on display (how often do people drop out of character!) and you have the advantage that you can easilly have secret chats between players and between the GM and players (and or groups) there are a number of downsides...

The Games are primarily going to be limited to a set number of universes.. and they are going to be limited by whatever graphics the games designers build in... You are probably (initially) going to be limited to a generic D&D style scenario.. what happens if you want to play D20 Modern or Dark ages Vampire ? You're stuck! Equally it would be hard to put in new rules sets for alternative games.. or how do you impliment house rules ?

Not just the Graphics part.. most of what you will do will be real time 'dungeon' layouts.. the GM will select a location or design one and you will walk round.. what about Epic Quests, where you walk half way accross the land? In most games the GM will intersperse a handful (or none) cutscenes with random encounters etc.. but usually the end of the last scene will simply be precied by "Ok, you leave the house and head down to the railway station. The train journey is uneventful, and 3 hours later you arrive" - so that took all of 10 seconds to read out? How do you jump cut like that easilly? There is also the whole problem with the old red herring.. How often in games have your players spent hours off on a tangient, on a red herring, going into odd locations to follow tracks and into buildings you just have to make up off the top of your head... In an RPG you are not bound by the map - in a computer game the GM would have to sit down for a few hours and go to his 'dungeon builder' and create a few warehouses and NPC's to populate it with! - On the flip side of that if you are playing in a CITY that is pre-established... they could end up trailing round for hours and hours trying to find what they wanted... in much the same way in an RPG you would say "make a research / spot roll" and then after their result you'd say "Ok after a 4 hour search you track down the Old Oak Tannery in the old quarter" - how many times in computer games have you just had to end up traling for hours and hours round some confusing, not particularly detailed, samey looking graphics, boring city with only 3 storeys high, to find that one building that... also looks the same but with a small sign on it

I also don't think my computer has the hardware requirements for my imagination

[KillerWhale]

Dear all,

Wow. The subject sure gave a lot of you people things to think about Thank you very much for the support, and the sharing of experiences; I appreciate it a lot. I'm sorry also for you guys who had similar, of tougher experiences.

I'd prefer not to debate the details in public, as some of my ex-players do lurk on the boards from time to time and I wouldn't want to meddle things further by offering my only point of view.

I've had lunch with two of them today, and I'm hugely relieved to announce that our personal friendships apparently haven't suffered. Honestly, this was what mattered most to me. I don't give a damn about the game if ditching it allows us to retain our friendships.

Apparently the break-up was due to player frustation. I don't fully go with the theory, as the harshness of some reactions must go deeper than that. Anyway, we'll talk this out, and this is good.

In any case, this didn't happen because of online RPGs or CCGs... At least we're safe on this side

[prophetsteve]

I've had lunch with two of them today, and I'm hugely relieved to announce that our personal friendships apparently haven't suffered. Honestly, this was what mattered most to me. I don't give a damn about the game if ditching it allows us to retain our friendships.

My last group died because of our frustrations too. In our case it was the GM constantly screwing us over and constructing elaborate traps for us to get suckered into - and then promptly giving up the game when we fell into the trap deeper than expected.

Finally we all gave up the group and the GM took it personally. It got worse when one of our former group members reformed the group and made a point not to invite him (cause unfortunately he is as disruptive a player has he is a GM). He hasn't talked to us since, which is a shame since he is a nice guy.

Its great that you can salvage your friendships due to events in a game. We all should be able to separate gaming preference with real-life friendship but in practise hard feelings often migrate. I wish you luck in trying to smooth things over.

As an aside I am now groupless too. My group lost its GM last week because he got a job across the Province. None of us wanted to take up the mantle of GM (cause some members of our group is notoriously hard to handle) so we just decided to break up. I'm still debating what I am going to do but I may just take a break for awhile...

[strict31]

I'd offer Killer Whale and Prophetsteve a hug, but aside from the manly concerns of this sort of contact, touching me's not a good idea since that accident with the radioisotopes in my lab last week. Luckily, the Gold Bond powder seems to be taking care of the itching/burning. Being a power-mad, global despot-to-be ain't easy, folks.

Tobian, in IRC and AIM, dicebots are easy to find and use. And there are some sites that make use of a dice roller program, so fudging and cheating rolls are impossible.

Additionally, though I've never tried it, Neverwinter Nights offers the ability to gather a group and a GM to run adventures. You have a visual reference for your character and for what's going on. Problem I see with that game is that, while the engine easily allows modders to make their own modules and adventures, modders are not GMs and vice versa. I'm a good GM, but have no skill at modding, so I'd have to rely on the (admittedly numerous but inconsistent) community-made modules out there. Seems impractical to me. But if I'm not mistaken, there are also chat programs that allow for OoC interaction that can be used in concert with the game itself. Like I said, to me, it seems impractical with current technology, but there are entire online communities who manage. And there are many folks who swear by it.

More power to them...


Strictly Speaking

[Mac417]

I'm inclined to agree with you, KW. Mainly, my interest in gaming fell through the toilet mainly due to my gaming tastes not coinciding with those of my gamer buddies. Where everyone wants to play some kind of D&D iteration, I'd like to expand my horizons. (Plus, I despise the medieval fantasy genre, but I digress.)

Not to mention I'm tired of every time I suggest a new game to play, the response is always "could you GM?" And being that I'm less than confident about my GMing abilities, the discussion usually dies there.

And sadly, one of such discussions pertained to Star Trek.

[Phantom]

I've found that if the group memebers suggest that you DM, then they are confident in you abilities in that role.

[Mac417]

Originally posted by Phantom
I've found that if the group memebers suggest that you DM, then they are confident in you abilities in that role.

It's badly-placed confidence. I've never GMed a game that didn't go down the crapper after a couple hours. I've never been able to do the whole thinking-on-the-fly thing running a game.

I would SUCK at improv comedy.

[Phantom]

Well, that is what I thought. AFAIC my early attempts at GMing weren't that great. As with all things practice makes perfect. In the end my remaining group memebers were always asking me to continue my L5R campaign.

Keep trying, I think you will find the rewards pleasant.

[strict31]

Yeah, practice does help, and so does asking for help on the forums. I'm sure there are lots of folks here who would be willing to give some pointers.


Strictly Speaking

[Mac417]

Much appreciation for all the encouragement.

I do have to say though that confidence in my GMing abilities isn't the sole source of my problem with trying to intro new games to my crowd.

For one, I have been specifically told by a couple people the reason they ask me to GM these games is because I'm the only one who has the books.

Second, in the case of Star Trek, it took the opening interrogatives of two prospective players to convince me against it...

"Can I be a non-Starfleet Klingon?"

"Can I be a machine?"

Ergh...

[Ergi]

Originally posted by Mac417


Ergh...

Yes?!?

Originally posted by Mac417

Second, in the case of Star Trek, it took the opening interrogatives of two prospective players to convince me against it...

"Can I be a non-Starfleet Klingon?"

"Can I be a machine?"

You are not the only one who had to answer those questions. In my current group we have NO human player characters.