ships deceleration at impulse

[UDT/Frogman]

ok can some one tell me how can federation starship stop without turning itself around

i found one theory but is there any others?
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...5b.htm#impulse

[strict31]

I think it's an assumption that the warp field has to be dropped in order to drop from warp speed. We've seen static warp fields created before, suggesting that attaining a warp field is only partially related to moving at warp speed. In other words, why do you need to drop the warp field just because you are no longer moving at warp velocities? You don't.

So, then there is the issue of warp coil efficiency falling off drastically below warp 1. Well, the thing is, since a subspace field is created, and since things like mass and inertia are significantly lessened in subspace fields to a degree that is not (as far as I have seen canonically) specified, we don't know the minimum warp field effieciency necessary to lessen these effects. It might be a simple matter to drop out of warp speed while maintaining a warp field (with attendant subspace field) to allow standard thrusters to arrest or lessen forward velocity. For all we know, while wrapped in a warp field, a ship the size of the 1701-E could be pushed easily by a person, if they could find something to brace themselves against.

But hell, I would imagine that there's probably some weird effects that occur in the transition between non-newtonian motion and newtonian motion that we don't know. Is it possible there could be a natural energy release when a vessel transitions from warp velocity to sublight velocity? Is it possible to modulate the warp field to ameliorate that energy release, to direct it? I don't know.

I was reading something similar about Star Wars' hyperspace, where someone was trying to analyze it with real world science, and explain how it could work. I think I understood one word out of every twenty! I think it's cool that people with knowledge in the field are so intrigued by Trek that they try and find ways to answer the sci-fi questions it poses. But ultimately they are sci-fi questions, and they're just a plot device.

But to answer the question, again, as long as you can maintain subspatial mass/inertia attenuations, why can't thrusters do the trick? Or maybe Section 31 secretly placed baby Qs inside every warp core to change the gravitational constant whenever a ship answers all stop...



Strictly Speaking

[Karg]

I think the question pertained more along the lines of from sublight speeds to relitive rest. Best way to consider it is that the Impuse Drive is a type of inertialess drive system.

when such a drive is active the ship will be moving and the engines have to be constantly on to move the ship, because once you turn off the engines, the ship will come to a stop. (notice on the show the impulse engines are always glowing as the ship is in sublight flight)

Now I say a "type" of inertialess drive because with a true inertialess drive, when you shut off the engines, the ship stops period. In Trek we see that ships do take a little time to de-cell to reletive stop. add into the fact that the crew does feel a little of the forces involved in accelleration and De-celleration (Spelling) while with a True inertialess drive, no forces would be felt.

as far as de-celling from warp speed, How fast you travell depends on how strong a Warp Field is surronding your ship. De-celling to sublight occurs when the warp field collapses

Hope that clears it up a bit.

[Tobian]

Well to quote from the TNG technical manual.. while the Impulse drive system is based around the exhaust of Helium Plasma, the reactants are exited via a 'Space time driver coil'. THis is effectivelly a coil made of similar material to the Warp coils (a derivative of Vertinium Cortenide) which is energised by the passing stream of helium plasma. In turn this coil generates a low level subspace effect, which lowers the effective mass of the ship (as the warp drive does) relative to the energy output..

In a practical sense this means that you get MUCH more thrust than a standard helium Plasma Ion drive would give you because in the inverse sense the amount of thrust relative to the size of the vessel (the amout of mass which needs to be moved) is huge. It would be like taking a Saturn V rocket and reducing it's mass to 5 lb - a small child could lift it, so therefore the thousands of pounds of thrust will propell it at ludicrous speeds

The reverse effect of this is once you remove the drive output the STD coil will de-charge. The net effect of this is that the mass of the ship will suddenly massivelly increase (depending on how fast the coil was designed to discharge) and therefore it's forward momentum would suddenly drop. Hence it is non Newtonian Physics because sibspace is involved

The acceleration gradient in both directions would therefore be HUGE hence they have intertial dampening fields !

Warp drive converselly is completelly non Newtonion, and you technically don't move at all; you distort spacetime around you - and the area of spacetime you occupy moves ! Think of it as being on a conveyor belt. You're standing still but you're moving.

[strict31]

Was just looking over the ST Encyclopedia. Apparently, the question is moot. A warp field is a bubble of subspace. Geordie created a warp bubble around the Bre'el IV moon to reduce its effective mass and inertia to keep it from crashing into the planet. O'Brien used a low level warp field to wrap around DS-9 to reduce its mass and allow its manuevering thrusters to to move it to the Denoris Belt. Neither object was moving at Warp Speed when the warp field was created. Creating a warp field is independant of moving at warp speed. And if RCS thrusters (or their equivelent) can move a mass as large as DS-9, they should be more than sufficient for stopping a ship wrapped in a warp field, sublight or not. So, no need for ships to turn around to use their impulse engines to stop. Thrusters can easily do the job, as long as a warp field is active around the ship.


Strictly Speaking

[Tobian]

Well yes and no, the point about a warp field is it's just a type of subspace field.

The warp drive produces a massivelly distorted asymetric warp field - the fact that it is asymetric causes the object to move 'forward' - a non asymetric field will not cause anything to happen.

A Forcefield, is a type of subspace field, hence technically it can behave like a warp field, it's just symetrical, hence it won't move you. However an inherent property of subspace technology is you can reduce effective mass - so allowing such effects.

[UDT/Frogman]

ok then here is another peace of the puzzle
inST the voyage home Kirk mentioned breaking thrusters
i asume that he ment thrusters that supose to stop or slow down the ship

[strict31]

Originally posted by Tobian
Well yes and no, the point about a warp field is it's just a type of subspace field.

The warp drive produces a massivelly distorted asymetric warp field - the fact that it is asymetric causes the object to move 'forward' - a non asymetric field will not cause anything to happen.

In other words, a static warp shell or static warp bubble, which Wes created once. My point is, regardless of whether one creates an asymmetrical field or a symmetrical field, a warp field lessens mass and inertia effects. Further, a warp field can be used to make newtonian motion much much more efficient. And since it's been done on the show at least twice to do exactly that, the original question of the thread seems to have its answer.

Originally posted by Tobian
A Forcefield, is a type of subspace field, hence technically it can behave like a warp field, it's just symetrical, hence it won't move you. However an inherent property of subspace technology is you can reduce effective mass - so allowing such effects.

Agreed.


Strictly Speaking

[Karg]

Originally posted by UDT/Frogman
ok then here is another peace of the puzzle
inST the voyage home Kirk mentioned breaking thrusters
i asume that he ment thrusters that supose to stop or slow down the ship

Good Point

[Tobian]

True but then that was a Klingon ship!

We have no idea how Klingon Impulse drives work

On the flip side of that under those circumstances it would have been the action of flinging them round the sun that gave them forward momentum and not a subspace trick, hence they will have had to use real engines to slow themselves down. Technically speaking they were traveling at Warp not impilse anyway. (not that this makes more sense either )