Spacedock stats can be found in Steve Long's "Original Series Era" sourcebook for Spacedock. You can find the Spacedock materials (and a lot of other good ICON stuff) at <a href="http://www.coldnorth.com/memoryicon/">Memory Icon</a>.
Hmmm....that's pretty voluminous, but none of that is "canon" though, is it? I don't recall the episode saying that the FF was an "incredibly advanced" race -- that seemed to me to be part of their bluff (their own "Corbomite Maneuver").
Either way, looks like I'm going to have to come up with stats on my own, b/c it doesn't fit what I intended to do with the FF. Thanks anyway, though.
It was implied by the vessel it's self. Implied or not the ship was VAST by the scale of the Enteprise, fake or not.. In TOS the bigger they were the more advanced they were!
Perhaps, but it seemed that the only "real" part of the vessel was the small scout ship inhabited by Blalok....and if they were so advanced, why were they never even mentioned in passing again in any of the next generation series! (Even the Tholians or Gorn get an Honorable Mention from time to time, even if we've never seen them again).
No, I think it's more, um, logical to assume that they were certainly more advanced than the UFP in terms of system ops (especially tractor beams), it doesn't imply a Borg-like level of advancement vice the UFP in 2266....
Besides, the whole episode has a bit more of a cosmic balance that way. Kirk bluffed Blalok, only to discover that Blalok had been bluffing him from the first minute. The "terrifying" spaceship was really just a small scout; the "terrifying" Blalok turned out to be a cute lil' guy. His claims to have advanced weapons are likely to have been a bluff, too...at least, I doubt he had weapons that were, for example, a generation ahead of the Enterprise. Kirk was, after all, able to escape from Blalok's tractor beam, and it is NOT clear that this was part of Blalok's plan.
Anyway, the FF being on par with (maybe slightly more advanced) with UFP fits with what I'm planning on doing for the next episode, so unless there's something written in stone that contradicts, I'm going with it.
Originally posted by jkp1187 Perhaps, but it seemed that the only "real" part of the vessel was the small scout ship inhabited by Blalok
I disagee. First, the captain of the Fesarius is named 'Balok', not 'Blalok'. Second, the reason he separated the small pilot ship was so that the Enterprise would try to do -- exactly what they tried to do. They would never have made the attempt had the Fesarius itself towed them.
It's true that Balok was the only crew, but it's by no means certain that the rest of the ship was a mere facade.
Originally posted by jkp1187 ....and if they were so advanced, why were they never even mentioned in passing again in any of the next generation series! (Even the Tholians or Gorn get an Honorable Mention from time to time, even if we've never seen them again).
The Organians don't get mentioned much, and they brokered (okay, forced) a treaty between the Federation and the Klingons. The Metrons have never been mentioned again. Neither has Trelane. It may be that there is little interaction between the First Federation and the Federation.
But they are mentioned in this regard: several times on DS9, the beverage "tranya" is mentioned; this is the drink served to Kirk & co. by Balok at the end of the episode. This would tend to imply there is at least some trade contact.
Originally posted by jkp1187 No, I think it's more, um, logical to assume that they were certainly more advanced than the UFP in terms of system ops (especially tractor beams), it doesn't imply a Borg-like level of advancement vice the UFP in 2266....
It's hard to be sure exactly where uber-races fit on the advancement scale. However, here are some things to keep in mind:
<ol>
<li>The amount of power necessary to move such a large ship at FTL speeds implies significant advances in power generation technology.
<li>Balok's control over the Fesarius must be telepathic; there's no other way he could control a ship with the small interface we see. This implies they have solved the problem of mechanical telepathy. That is a level of computer interface comparable to or better than what the Borg have managed (they can interface mind and machine, but it requires physical contact).
<li>The ability of a single being to run an enormous ship implies a great deal of sophistication in computer control.
<li>The ability to grab the Enterprise with a tractor beam powerful enough to overload its engines, at a range distant enough that the ship was barely detectable.
<li>The ability to override the Enterprise's own computer controls and shut down parts of the ship.
<li>The ability to scan the entire ship in a very short time.
</ol>
None of this is conclusive, of course, and there is an assumption that advancement in one particular area implies similar advancement in others, which may not be true. Still, I'd say there's reasonable room to assume they are considerably more technically advanced the any of the Federation cultures.
Originally posted by jkp1187 Kirk was, after all, able to escape from Blalok's tractor beam, and it is NOT clear that this was part of Blalok's plan.
I have always assumed that this WAS Balok's plan. Remember "it was a pleasure testing you". The entire thing was a set-up. Balok knew, probably to the erg, how much he could tax the Enterprise without blowing it up.
Originally posted by jkp1187 Anyway, the FF being on par with (maybe slightly more advanced) with UFP fits with what I'm planning on doing for the next episode, so unless there's something written in stone that contradicts, I'm going with it.
Of course. Inasmuch as nothing I've written here is canon, merely what I believe to be reasonable extrapolation, nothing says another interpretation isn't as valid. The important thing, after all, is telling a good story.
I have always assumed that this WAS Balok's plan. Remember "it was a pleasure testing you". The entire thing was a set-up. Balok knew, probably to the erg, how much he could tax the Enterprise without blowing it up.
>>>
Perhaps...but once a BS'er, always a BS'er in my book. Besides, someone who's got a ship that's one mile in diameter but still thinks he needs a puppet to be taken seriousliy will lie to save face about other things, too....
Good point about the tranya mention in DS9. Didn't know about that.
I always figured that the Organians were never mentioned again just b/c while that episode was a good story, it sort of took the teeth out of the Klingon/UFP war tension. And where were they when Commander Kruge was shooting down Federation ships like clay pigeons in Star Trek III....hmmmm....?
You know, I'm going to have to see if the local video store has this episode...it's been such a long time since I've seen it..... Anyway, my episode plan involved having the FF team up with the UFP, supplying certain high-tech equipment (especially tractor beams) on some sort of science mission or, perhaps, an espionage mission against a possible mutual enemy. (The Tholians were crossing my mind.....) Still working out the bugs. But I like using races that were mentioned briefly and not discussed much after -- gives me a wider canvas on which to play.
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