To those who disliked Enterprise...

[REG]

I guess because I'm expecting someone (let's call him "Space_Cadet") to call me a traitor for switching.

He tend to ridicule me with posted parody images.

[T'lara]

I guess because I'm expecting someone (let's call him "Space_Cadet") to call me a traitor for switching.

He tend to ridicule me with posted parody images.

I do not ridicule anyone for their thoughts. Never will. The great thing about these boards ar that we Trek fans can express our opinions. This is ironically one of the nicest boards on Trek out there. The other boards are extremely hostile like TrekBBS. This board we can disagree to disagree and not have childness that goes on in the other boards.

I personally do not like people attacking or mocking people for what people tink plain immature.

[JALU3]

Although there maybe improvement in the show, which I wouldn't know since I have only seen one episode of the latest season . . . my question is how do reasolve, coming from a roleplaying point of view, the canon errors already depicted on the show . . . and thus the ongoing impact those previous actions have on future scripts, and episodes of this show?

[Capt. K. Vaughn]

Although there maybe improvement in the show, which I wouldn't know since I have only seen one episode of the latest season . . . my question is how do reasolve, coming from a roleplaying point of view, the canon errors already depicted on the show . . . and thus the ongoing impact those previous actions have on future scripts, and episodes of this show?

Two words: Parallel Universe.

It is a universe unto itself from that depicted in the other series and my own campaign. That way it exists in my "multi"-verse but has no direct impact on it unless I choose to do some type of crossover.

Regards,
CKV.

[Tobian]

T'lara, 1) if you think this is getting 'flamed' you are sorelly mistaken, flaming is not where someone or several people disagree with you using civilised debate.. that is called debate opinion and statement.. just because you are outnumbered does not mean we are flaming you, we're all just agreeing.. me agreeing with Reg is a rare event, enjoy it!

2) I was not getting at specific comments in your post, in fact I was replying to the several people who have posted in this thread, including Modem, whom you will notice most of my comments were directed towards, with respect to his statements about tired old dredged up material from season 1-3 rather than season 4, which the initial subject regarded.

[Modem]

That’s WHY I brought up things about season 1-3, because ‘They’ (incl. Manny) haven’t LEARNED from ‘Their’ past mistakes. That’s why I mentioned the Gorn-thing. It’s also why using the Romulans would be a mistake as well (as someone else from these boards pointed out [roughly quoting] “The Romulan War [and the First Contact that starts it] would actually occur years after Ent. goes off the air...” and that’s assuming that the thing last seven years).

If: ‘Those who refused to learn from the past, are doomed to repeat it’, then this show is in perpetual re-run.

On another note:
Some people say the writing improved 1000%. I say the shows decreased by another two-thirds. How do I mean? Well, even at it’s heights of ‘crap-a-tude’, Voyager only needed a maximum of two episodes to tell a story (no, I’m NOT counting season finales). Now, ‘They’ (to which I’m now adding Manny to the mix) need THREE episodes to a SINGLE STORY…WHAT-THE…

Bottom line: The numbers don’t lie, the rating are still down (waaaaaaaaaaaay down, when one considers what the first episode had for figures), so Paramount do us a favor: Don’t listen to anymore pro-E ‘protests’/‘letter writing campaigns’/or any other gimmicks. Stop throwing good-money-for-bad, and above all else…MAKE THE HURTING STOP…

[REG]

Although there maybe improvement in the show, which I wouldn't know since I have only seen one episode of the latest season . . . my question is how do reasolve, coming from a roleplaying point of view, the canon errors already depicted on the show . . . and thus the ongoing impact those previous actions have on future scripts, and episodes of this show?

Well, if Gene Roddenberry was alive, if he stamped anything "apocryphal" then I considered it written out the of the lore (e.g., Star Trek V: The Final Frontier).

But as with VOYAGER storyline, I have to accept them for what they are -- even if I still retch when they are mentioned -- and move on. I don't emphasize nor keep reminding them of the discrepancies, just footnote it.

[Dan Gurden]

my question is how do reasolve, coming from a roleplaying point of view, the canon errors already depicted on the show . . . and thus the ongoing impact those previous actions have on future scripts, and episodes of this show?

This doesn't really feel like a question.

Its your game, and your universe. I can guarantee you that anything that happens to you and your crew is not considered canon.

So revel in it.

Either change the setting to remove the Series. Or simply ignore anything that doesn't gel with what your game requires.

Last time I checked Paramount (just like Wizards of the Coast) do not send the Canon Inquisition around to check everyones games are running to their standard. (Just 1 in every 100 I think ).

So sit back, dont worry and just enjoy. If you want to keep canon, thats fine, but if you dont like something, theres no need to loose sleep over it! Just ignore it and move on.

[Tobian]

Canon is a fickle thing that epsiodes outside of Enterprise broke! TNG broke an awful lot of Canon from the original series, and radically altered the way key pieces of technology worked, like the Warp drive.. if you want to get picky it's easy to point out the show is not that consistent!

Do we actually know the Gorn had first contact in TOS? it's not as implicit as other episodes so it isn't such a major breech of continuity as earlier Gaffes.

[Capt. K. Vaughn]

Canon is a fickle thing that epsiodes outside of Enterprise broke! TNG broke an awful lot of Canon from the original series, and radically altered the way key pieces of technology worked, like the Warp drive.. if you want to get picky it's easy to point out the show is not that consistent!

Do we actually know the Gorn had first contact in TOS? it's not as implicit as other episodes so it isn't such a major breech of continuity as earlier Gaffes.

I'd have to go back and watch the episode to be accurate but I am pretty sure that it is at least implied that Kirk and the Enterprise were the first to encounter the Gorn and survive from Starfleet.

After all, if the Gorn had previous contact with a ship of the fleet then that knowledge would be in the Enterprise's computer and quite certainly they would have been briefed about them given Enterprise's assignment to the region.

However, it is also quite clear that the spinoffs do like to ignore TOS and create a revisionist history.

Regards,
CKV.

[Tobian]

What annoys most people about the Borg and Ferengi, is that in the episodes that they wrere first encountered, they implicitly stated it was a first contact, or words to that effect, to an extent.. the point is that was the raison d'etre of the episode.

Species like the Gorn, or even the Klingons (with respect to Pickard and Worfs quotes laterly in TNG) it could simply be a continuity error, which while annoying are lesser gaffes IMHO. Especially the Gorn.. it could be that they just didn't know much about them rather than it being a first contact.. Often the federation knows allot about species before they first contact, because they have observed, but then equally could be true in the reverse.. they may have observed tiny fragments of that civilisation (like the Ferengi) but not had an official first contact for many years.

[REG]

Well, it is not so much about First Contact (we have seen Federation "observe" species until they reached the Warp stage of development before they begin First Contact protocol). But rather their appearance in the prequel series that seems unncessary and/or gratuitous. It's Braga's way of blatantly hinting "Hey, there! Yes, this is a Star Trek show! Check out the Ferengi!"



If they're smart, and I'm sure Manny is the one with the gray matter here, they should stick to familiar TOS species.

[TFVanguard]

Well, with the Ferengi, I really found it hard to swallow that the Enterprise-D was the first ship to have a face-to-face encounter with them when they had been operating as freakin' merchants for 20 years prior to that, that we've confirmed in TNG.

If they've been around, wheeling and dealing, as far back as ENT, then Pike would have run into them, much less Kirk, Harriman, etc... And, of course, DS9 gives the impression that the Ferengi were common as skin-tight uniforms, including visits from the planetary leader himself! That certainly wouldn't be the case if the 'first face-to-face encounter' was only a couple of years previous.

So.. um.. yeah, I think ENT may have it right here , as far as Ferengi goes, and TNG initially screwed up.

[REG]

Well, with the Ferengi, I really found it hard to swallow that the Enterprise-D was the first ship to have a face-to-face encounter with them when they had been operating as freakin' merchants for 20 years prior to that, that we've confirmed in TNG.

Please cite episode.

[JALU3]

Well, with the Ferengi, I really found it hard to swallow that the Enterprise-D was the first ship to have a face-to-face encounter with them when they had been operating as freakin' merchants for 20 years prior to that, that we've confirmed in TNG.

If they've been around, wheeling and dealing, as far back as ENT, then Pike would have run into them, much less Kirk, Harriman, etc... And, of course, DS9 gives the impression that the Ferengi were common as skin-tight uniforms, including visits from the planetary leader himself! That certainly wouldn't be the case if the 'first face-to-face encounter' was only a couple of years previous.

So.. um.. yeah, I think ENT may have it right here , as far as Ferengi goes, and TNG initially screwed up.

Well . . . then you have to side of the coin here . . . if you believe that TNG was right . . . there could be several hypothetical reasons as to why they weren't seen prior. If you take the Stargazer incident at face value, and at that time CAPT Picard didn't recognize that vessel, or nor was it within Federation's (or member species databanks) knowledge. Then that would be your "first contact
", unless others have encountered them and did not live to tell their tales or send information before expiring.

So here are several hypotheticals:

1) Their initial first contact showed them that the region around that axis of exploration was hostile, and would cost to much initial capital to establish connections to that market.

2) They lack the technology to go past that location where the Stargazer incident occured at that time. Thus inhibiting them from making further contact.

3) They lacked the funds, and the drive to open up those new markets, due to other market forces, thus tying them up for several years.

4) They did not focus on that regional axis in comparison to Ferenginars location . . . rather establishing more lucrative markets closer to their territory in the mean time.

I am sure there can be many other explinations . . . but remember . . . a powers territorial expanse is never constant . . . and must start at a given time. If you look at the main drive to the Ferengi you have to take into account that if their projects state an action isn't profitable then they won't conduct that action.

. . .

However, if you take ENT as the truth, of which I have little knowledge of . . . you can also take economic factors and hypothesis several reasons why they weren't very active in the Federation territories, and its perifiry, later on in the timeline.